IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #11

[Walker]

Anyway, I know it sounds crazy that this guy(s) would hurt LS, who presumably had nothing to do w/ whatever drug/$$ could have been going on but I also think it's possible, given all the conditions she could have been under and how out of it she could have already been that just a simple confrontation/her getting scared/nervous/shocked could have been enough to hurt her.

Here is a photo from Fox News:

Suppose ... that LS were frightened by these characters and perhaps her own suspicions about their behavior. Might she have gone into hiding? Did she have any close friends outside of the college possibly living in the Bloomington area or within a few hours drive? Note the expression on her face in that photo, and the body language.

 

[eqh]

I'm not sure if it's been said before here...but suppose that the person(s) who got into the altercation with CR at Smallwood did so over a drug-related/money-related matter and it had nothing to do with LS except that she was with CR. Perhaps either the guy(s) who actually punched him had previously been at Kilroys or out and about anyway and had seen CR and LS heading to Smallwood, followed, attacked them and CR was freaked out by the whole thing (because he owed them $$ or ?) and that is why he and LS left right away (I agree, still seems strange they wouldn't visit her apt first) but going along with this, suppose that the guys who punched CR did follow CR and LS back to CR's place and then waited for them to come back out later...CR never came out but LS did and they confronted her about the drug/$$ issue and it got ugly from there. I know this sounds like a long shot but it's something I have picked up from poking around some threads (it's OK to say that, right?). This would explain why JW may not have been notified about the fight. These guys who attacked CR may have been in JW's frat but been several years younger and not really known him well enough to call him about his gf being spotted out w/ someone else...it's possible even if they were in the same frat they weren't close enough to share that kind of thing anyway (it's possible they had rarely even spoken, because as we have heard on here before JW and JR were also in the same frat but were not really friends).

Anyway, I know it sounds crazy that this guy(s) would hurt LS, who presumably had nothing to do w/ whatever drug/$$ could have been going on but I also think it's possible, given all the conditions she could have been under and how out of it she could have already been that just a simple confrontation/her getting scared/nervous/shocked could have been enough to hurt her. Then these guys (who still inexplicably have not been listed in MSM as far as I have seen) could deflect a lot of the blame from themselves since they are not close to others in the case and possibly didn't even know LS at all. Going along with all of this...maybe JR was involved in some drug thing with the guy(s) who punched CR as well and he was somehow forced/tricked into making up his part of the story to cover for them if they are all involved in drugs somehow.

I really have no idea how credible any of this is...it is just another theory. If I have said anything that should not be included in this discussion, I truly apologize and will gladly remove it...I just thought some of this was too interesting (however hard to believe) not to share but I admit, even after reading the TOS and postings by mods I'm still not sure exactly what's OK to post and what's not. Again, sorry if I violated any rules I'm not trying to 'bait' or anything just sharing a rumor I've seen but don't know anything about the validity of it of course and expanded it to include a little of my own speculation about it...

Well, to think about the first part of this, I don't recall where the leap was made that this confrontation was about Lauren, maybe someone else could jog my memory.

It is very plausible that the confrontation was unrelated to her, or simply the actions of one or more known hotheads.

 

[bessie]

A couple things I would like to address:
Dogs: I have been on several searches with dogs present. There have been bloodhounds as well as other scent hounds involved in these searches. Some are with professional organizations, some are privately owned (personal hunting dogs). This afternoon, I passed people outside of McNutt preparing to take beagles out to search.

Dumpsters: There were people crawling into dumpsters looking for Lauren by Saturday afternoon (June 4). I have crawled into several myself.

TES: TES is not the only professional search and rescue group working here, but they are perhaps the most visible. Dave Rader from S.T.A.R.R. has been a formidable presence in McNutt this past week, and there are other whose names are escaping me at the moment (it was "Find Lauren Day" and we covered one end of the county to another. I'm a bit exhausted).

What happened?: Lots of good discussion with searchers from all over today about what we thought might have happened. The most amusing comment I heard came from a petite blonde who looked a lot like Lauren. She said, "I think we need to get her friends together in a room and start cutting off fingers." An awful lot of searchers had a good chuckle before agreeing. We're not giving up.
(Mods, apologies if my comments from a searcher's p.o.v. aren't helpful. Feel free to tell me to shut up)

Don't you dare shut up. Your comments are extremely helpful. Thank you! :blowkiss: And thank you for getting in the trenches to help find Lauren.

 

[Long-time Local]

I remember reading that the dumpsters were dumped on Friday mornings. At the construction sites as well. That is not good, IMO... she hadn't even been reported yet.

There were definitely dumpsters that weren't dumped on Friday the 3rd, but it's chilling to consider how easy it would be to dispose of LS in this way since the dumpster for 5 North is closest to JR's apartment. I have no idea when 5 North's dumpster is emptied.

 

[Ven]

If ZO was the person involved in the altercation earlier and if he does in fact live at 10th & College (which is near where her key/coin purse was found) what if she decided to stop there after leaving JR's instead of going home... and something happened there?

Why would he murder his good friend's girlfriend? I don't think it's plausible at all.

 

[jennyb629]

Well, to think about the first part of this, I don't recall where the leap was made that this confrontation was about Lauren, maybe someone else could jog my memory.

It is very plausible that the confrontation was unrelated to her, or simply the actions of one or more known hotheads.

I'm not sure but I think that people started saying the confrontation was about LS because the same time we heard about this altercation was when we heard that CR had been seen paying 'inappropriate attention' to LS and I think people took it from there to assume that JW's friends confronted him because of this inappropriate attention. I'm not sure if that's really why people think LS was somehow the reason for the altercation, maybe there are other things that have been mentioned that led people to believe this...personally I think if it was JW's friends who confronted CR because they didn't like that he was with LS then there is no way they wouldn't have then contacted JW and he would have been concerned about finding her ASAP. So I think it makes more sense that they attacked CR for another reason...but if someone has information in MSM or PC or something confirming that this altercation was actually over LS then let me know.

 

[jennyb629]

Why would he murder his good friend's girlfriend? I don't think it's plausible at all.

Despite what may have been speculated in previous news, articles and message boards, I don't think we know for sure that ZO and JW are 'good friends.' I think someone assumed this early on and it sort of made sense so it kept getting repeated but I don't think we know that they are in fact friends at all or that this confrontation was about LS.

 

[Ven]

I remember reading that the dumpsters were dumped on Friday mornings. At the construction sites as well. That is not good, IMO... she hadn't even been reported yet.

At this point, I think this is the most plausible scenario.

If people were looking in dumpsters starting Saturday afternoon, I'm sure there are some in the area that were dumped before then.

 

[jennyb629]

Here is a photo from Fox News:



Suppose ... that LS were frightened by these characters and perhaps her own suspicions about their behavior. Might she have gone into hiding? Did she have any close friends outside of the college possibly living in the Bloomington area or within a few hours drive?

Interesting idea. I hope this is true and that she is still in hiding somewhere...it seems like one of the very few ways she could still be with us at this point.

ETA: I removed the picture and comment about it from my response to your quote because I don't think this picture is relevant in demonstrating any suspicion or fright about LS's feelings about the friend in this picture but I wanted to respond to the rest of what you stated.

 

[blazelet]

Forgive me if I missed it, I have been on the road and unable to follow the thread super closely. A lot of the talk seems to assume drugs were involved. Has LE or anyone else confirmed this?

 

[jennyb629]

Forgive me if I missed it, I have been on the road and unable to follow the thread super closely. A lot of the talk seems to assume drugs were involved. Has LE or anyone else confirmed this?

To my knowledge, no, LE has not confirmed that drugs were involved. They haven't denied it either and have admitted it is something they have heard and-presumably-are still considering/investigating. This link of an article from 6/14 says LE is not discounting rumors may have ODed.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...tion-compounds-concerns-about-cocaine-alcohol

 

[jjenny]

At this point, I think this is the most plausible scenario.

If people were looking in dumpsters starting Saturday afternoon, I'm sure there are some in the area that were dumped before then.

If there were dumpster dumped before police started looking then they should go and do a landfill search.

 

[ela_ss teacher]

Just a random thought that may have very well been mentioned in the previous million posts... I just watched a rerun of a Dateline show about the "Megan Wants A Millionaire" murderer, Ryan Jenkins and how he murdered Jasmine Fiore. He put her in a large rolling suitcase and took her out of the back door or window of the hotel room. My thought was that since it was the end of a semester and many were going home for the summer, Lauren, as tiny as she is, could have easily been taken out of the building the same way without arousing suspicion on the cameras and discarded out of town somewhere. This could have happened before she was even reported missing. I know the clothing found was ruled out as unrelated to her disappearance, but with Ryan Jenkins, he was seen taking clothing out of the hotel room in his arms, the contents of his suitcase, so that he could use the suitcase to conceal Jasmine's body.

I know that case was totally and completely unrelated, but I couldn't help but think of tiny Lauren being taken out of the building the same way.

Where are you girl??

 

[ellehill]

Why would he murder his good friend's girlfriend? I don't think it's plausible at all.

Wasn't suggesting murder at all, but could've been an accident/OD/heart issue. She may have stopped somewhere else after leaving JR's...maybe she knew people in the 10th & College buildings near where her purse was later found? She could've run into them on her way home and stopped in to party some more.

 

[bessie]

I'm not sure if it's been said before here...but suppose that the person(s) who got into the altercation with CR at Smallwood did so over a drug-related/money-related matter and it had nothing to do with LS except that she was with CR. Perhaps either the guy(s) who actually punched him had previously been at Kilroys or out and about anyway and had seen CR and LS heading to Smallwood, followed, attacked them and CR was freaked out by the whole thing (because he owed them $$ or ?) and that is why he and LS left right away (I agree, still seems strange they wouldn't visit her apt first) but going along with this, suppose that the guys who punched CR did follow CR and LS back to CR's place and then waited for them to come back out later...CR never came out but LS did and they confronted her about the drug/$$ issue and it got ugly from there. I know this sounds like a long shot but it's something I have picked up from poking around some threads (it's OK to say that, right?). This would explain why JW may not have been notified about the fight. These guys who attacked CR may have been in JW's frat but been several years younger and not really known him well enough to call him about his gf being spotted out w/ someone else...it's possible even if they were in the same frat they weren't close enough to share that kind of thing anyway (it's possible they had rarely even spoken, because as we have heard on here before JW and JR were also in the same frat but were not really friends).

Anyway, I know it sounds crazy that this guy(s) would hurt LS, who presumably had nothing to do w/ whatever drug/$$ could have been going on but I also think it's possible, given all the conditions she could have been under and how out of it she could have already been that just a simple confrontation/her getting scared/nervous/shocked could have been enough to hurt her. Then these guys (who still inexplicably have not been listed in MSM as far as I have seen) could deflect a lot of the blame from themselves since they are not close to others in the case and possibly didn't even know LS at all. Going along with all of this...maybe JR was involved in some drug thing with the guy(s) who punched CR as well and he was somehow forced/tricked into making up his part of the story to cover for them if they are all involved in drugs somehow.

I really have no idea how credible any of this is...it is just another theory. If I have said anything that should not be included in this discussion, I truly apologize and will gladly remove it...I just thought some of this was too interesting (however hard to believe) not to share but I admit, even after reading the TOS and postings by mods I'm still not sure exactly what's OK to post and what's not. Again, sorry if I violated any rules I'm not trying to 'bait' or anything just sharing a rumor I've seen but don't know anything about the validity of it of course and expanded it to include a little of my own speculation about it...

If a group of guys were threatening me or my escort in the hallway or elevator of my apartment building, I would not proceed on to my apartment for fear of letting them know where I live. I don't have a problem with that part of the story.

A dispute over money is just as reasonable a motive for the fight as Lauren being with another guy. That's never been confirmed, as far as I know. So money works. The rest of it gets sketchy. Maybe if I think about it awhile it will make sense, but right now, I'm having a hard time putting it together. There's a fight, some guy, or guys, beat up on CR. They let him walk away with Lauren, through an alley,to his apartment a few blocks away, but then decide to hang around outside at 3 am waiting for him to leave again? CR doesn't leave, but Lauren does. She meets up with the thugs, and a second confrontation ensues which escalates to the point of something dreadful happening. I dunno. It's not impossible, and I would suppose these individuals are among the 10 persons of interest. But then we still have the 4:15 am phone call. :waitasec:

 

[bessie]

Forgive me if I missed it, I have been on the road and unable to follow the thread super closely. A lot of the talk seems to assume drugs were involved. Has LE or anyone else confirmed this?

No, not confirmed. LE has alluded to the possibility, and there has been a lot of scuttlebut about drugs being involved, so we're just knocking around some ideas.

 

[jennyb629]

If a group of guys were threatening me or my escort in the hallway or elevator of my apartment building, I would not proceed on to my apartment for fear of letting them know where I live. I don't have a problem with that part of the story.

A dispute over money is just as reasonable a motive for the fight as a Lauren being with another guy. That's never been confirmed, as far as I know. So that works. The rest of it gets sketchy. Maybe if I think about it awhile it will makes sense, but right now, I'm having a hard time putting it together. There's a fight, some guy, or guys, beat up on CR. They let him walk away with Lauren, through an alley,to his apartment a few blocks away, but then decide to hang out around outside at 3 am waiting for him to leave again? CR doesn't leave, but Lauren does. She meets up with the thugs, and a second confrontation ensues which escalates to the point of something dreadful happening. I dunno. It's not impossible, and I would suppose these individuals are among the 10 persons of interest. But then we still have the 4:15 am phone call. :waitasec:

Very true about the 4:15 call. I seriously have no idea, the more I think about this case the more confusing it gets. I suppose (and I'm really just supposing on this because I have no clue) that it's possible that rather than this guy(s) actually waiting outside of CR's building for him/LS to come out that maybe they live somewhere nearby and it wasn't intentional but they were still out/around later just happened upon her walking by...again, a stretch I know...

Maybe JR placed the 4:15 call to DR because he thought/was worried something bad was going on with LS and this guy(s) and he thought maybe DR could help him out? Maybe this would be plausible if JR/DR and this group of guys all ran in the same drug circle or something and JR thought maybe DR would know what was up w/ them...Yeah, again this is all probably a big stretch. Just trying to consider all possibilities. Thanks for helping me out with some of the other details there...there are so many things to consider!

 

[SmoothOperator]

Re: photo of Lauren and friend noting facial expression and body language..

I suppose it can just be chalked up to each personal view but I, in absolutely no way whatsoever see anything that would ever lead me to believe that Lauren was in any way whatsoever uncomfortable or uneasy in being in this pose arms encircling each.. Not eve n the faintest hint of body language that would in anyway indicate that she were feeling anything negative whatsoever..

I believe this is a longtime friend of Lauren's and in putting myself in her shoes and already having the nightmare unfolding that my longtime friend had vanished 3 weeks ago and still there was no sign of her a d the longer the days stretch on the more I woukd come to realize that it is a very real possibility that this photo and ones like it along with memories is all that I could be left with from this longtime friend of mine.. And to be online and come across this photo of her and I where it is being accused that her body language and the look on her face in standing next to me in this photo was being stated that she was uncomfortable and uneasy with me.. Would be extremely hurtful and with what basis would such an ugly and baseless comment stem from??.. Nothing whatsoever to indicate anything even slightly similar is the case here..

I see two very happy young girls taking and posing for a photo together.. Nothing to indicate that Lauren was distrustful, scared, or even leery of any of her friends..

This picture certainly represents nothing of the sort!!

My opinion only but I feel extremely strong regarding this particular issue!

 

[jennyb629]

Re: photo of Lauren and friend noting facial expression and body language..

I suppose it can just be chalked up to each personal view but I, in absolutely no way whatsoever see anything that would ever lead me to believe that Lauren was in any way whatsoever uncomfortable or uneasy in being in this pose arms encircling each.. Not eve n the faintest hint of body language that would in anyway indicate that she were feeling anything negative whatsoever..

I believe this is a longtime friend of Lauren's and in putting myself in her shoes and already having the nightmare unfolding that my longtime friend had vanished 3 weeks ago and still there was no sign of her a d the longer the days stretch on the more I woukd come to realize that it is a very real possibility that this photo and ones like it along with memories is all that I could be left with from this longtime friend of mine.. And to be online and come across this photo of her and I where it is being accused that her body language and the look on her face in standing next to me in this photo was being stayed that she was uncomfortable and uneasy with me.. Would be extremely hurtful and with what basis would such an ugly and baseless comment stem from??.. Nothing whatsoever to indicate anything even slightly similar is the case here..

I see two very happy young girls taking and posing for a photo together.. Nothing to indicate that Lauren was distrustful, scared, or even leery of any of her friends..

This picture certainly represents nothing of the sort!!

My opinion only but I feel extremely strong regarding this particular issue!

I agree, I see nothing weird about her body language in this picture and nothing to suggest that she was scared of being with this particular friend. I also agree it would be very hurtful if you were her friend and came across this...

 

[bessie]

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that Lauren is uncomfortable with the person posing next to her. But she does look a bit apprehensive to me. Then again, the awkward stance might be due to the differences in their heights.