IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #13

[JeannaT]

I can't remember...has LE ruled out the 3:38 mystery man sighting? I know they interviewed the bar manager (twice?) and showed her pics of POIs. Did LE see the encounter on surveillance footage? Thanks.

They've pretty much disregarded it without commenting too much. There was a statement to the effect that they have looked through the video and her statement wasn't backed up by the video. I took that to mean they had video from the location and time she described, and there wasn't a similar couple in the video.

I could have misinterpreted LE's statement.

 

[goddess]

Not sure about the rules on posting links, do not want to get banned so let me explain what I found, and maybe someone can tell me if I am allowed to post. I found a phish forum, and a poster was copying a post from thebort.com forum, and the information is disturbing. Supposedly someone from Louisville KY had some grim details they shared, claiming Lauren was deceased. Since I am from Louisville KY I found this a strange twist of coincidence.

If someone gives me the ok, I will edit my post to add the link so others can read the site too, and determine for themselves if it sounds credible.

If not, google is your friend.

 

[Barry]

since we are now in yet another thread I want to make a few comments/observations.

from all appearances all the key people in question were wasted that night, however one chooses to define the term wasted. I've been there many times in the past and I can tell you from personal experience that when one is in that state, details are lost. what I did, what I had to drink, how much I had to drink, what I might have said to someone, and the order of events for the night are lost. not lot due to any convenient excuse but when one is in a blackout, the brain loses its ability to remember deetails.

countles people are sitting in prisons doing time for crimes of which they have no recollection. countless people have woken up in a hospital bed not recalling that they drove and got into an accident. none of this amounts to any legal defense, it is just fact.

I don't trust anyones timeline from the night unless it was captured on a video camera. seconds become minute, minutes become hours and it is all a blur.

I seeriously doubt these guys could have had the presence of mind (or lack thereof) to have formed a plan at 4 something in the morning to dispose of a body. sure it is possible but I think it highly unlikely.

what appears to me (and I am not bashing Lauren) is that she was on a mission to party and it looks lik she wore out her welcome everywhere she went that night. the more sensible in the crowd called it a night around midnight. a handful of peope were (apparently) still awake at 4 a.m. that does not mean they caused her any harm. who knows what she did after she left that last known location. she could have met up with a stranger under the guise of someone offering a ride or even more party favors (if you know what I mean).

I just have a hard time believing that this group caused her harm or disposed of her body with so little time to formulate a plan, to actually carry it out, and still three weeks later, no one is spilling the beans.

Hi, you touched on something here, that I have been somewhat hesitant to bring up. It would help my thinking to have an understanding of how many nights her friends had gone through with her being in that kind of shape, and with that much drama. Again, as with you, not bashing LS at all. It could however, clarify some of the behavior of some of her friends during that night.

But then, now that it's apparent that something serious has happened to her, you would think the realization has set in that this is something totally different.

All MOO and stuff.

 

[eqh]

Not sure about the rules on posting links, do not want to get banned so let me explain what I found, and maybe someone can tell me if I am allowed to post. I found a phish forum, and a poster was copying a post from thebort.com forum, and the information is disturbing. Supposedly someone from Louisville KY had some grim details they shared, claiming Lauren was deceased. Since I am from Louisville KY I found this a strange twist of coincidence.

If someone gives me the ok, I will edit my post to add the link so others can read the site too, and determine for themselves if it sounds credible.

If not, google is your friend.

Without reading it, I'd say 99% chance it is a troll, but send it to LE ASAP just in case.

 

[elmomom]

Not sure about the rules on posting links, do not want to get banned so let me explain what I found, and maybe someone can tell me if I am allowed to post. I found a phish forum, and a poster was copying a post from thebort.com forum, and the information is disturbing. Supposedly someone from Louisville KY had some grim details they shared, claiming Lauren was deceased. Since I am from Louisville KY I found this a strange twist of coincidence.

If someone gives me the ok, I will edit my post to add the link so others can read the site too, and determine for themselves if it sounds credible.

If not, google is your friend.

get a few opinions, not just mine. I do want to say that as long as I've been on the net, copying and pasting other people's email and posts on forums without their permission is a violation of copyright.
You may however, summarize and paraphrase. As far as the PT forum it sounds like a link is a no-no, if you try it and it automatically won't post, then you have your answer.

 

[jjenny]

I can't remember...has LE ruled out the 3:38 mystery man sighting? I know they interviewed the bar manager (twice?) and showed her pics of POIs. Did LE see the encounter on surveillance footage? Thanks.

No, LE didn't see the encounter on surveillance footage. They said they viewed the video and there was nothing resembling the account of this witness at 3:38 am.

 

[cluciano63]

Not sure about the rules on posting links, do not want to get banned so let me explain what I found, and maybe someone can tell me if I am allowed to post. I found a phish forum, and a poster was copying a post from thebort.com forum, and the information is disturbing. Supposedly someone from Louisville KY had some grim details they shared, claiming Lauren was deceased. Since I am from Louisville KY I found this a strange twist of coincidence.

If someone gives me the ok, I will edit my post to add the link so others can read the site too, and determine for themselves if it sounds credible.

If not, google is your friend.

I think it was inferred that the info came from a psychic in KY??

 

[goddess]

I think it was inferred that the info came from a psychic in KY??

Oh, possibly. By communicate with other side I thought they meant some side in the case, not the spirit world, but in rereading it, your thoughts sound closer to what was implied.

To paraphrase, this Louisville KY woman claimed the girl was deceased, not raped, and tied up. Sorry folks. I guess it was just another rumor in this case, didn't mean to get hopes up about any news. Supposedly a roommate of JW's posts there as well, and is adding insight.

 

[bessie]

Not sure about the rules on posting links, do not want to get banned so let me explain what I found, and maybe someone can tell me if I am allowed to post. I found a phish forum, and a poster was copying a post from thebort.com forum, and the information is disturbing. Supposedly someone from Louisville KY had some grim details they shared, claiming Lauren was deceased. Since I am from Louisville KY I found this a strange twist of coincidence.

If someone gives me the ok, I will edit my post to add the link so others can read the site too, and determine for themselves if it sounds credible.

If not, google is your friend.

Which link are you asking to post?

 

[phantomthought]

Reading the news:

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/28372732/detail.html

It seems that there is an interesting development. Based on the statement of his attorney: "He has provided full statements to the police and passed a polygraph that has also been provided to the authorities,"

Based on this, it appears that one of the POIs has not talked to the police directly, but rather "provided full statements" and passed a private polygraph, not one administered by LE. I find this troublesome. Avoiding to talk directly to the police (if that's the case) or the parents of LS is not something one would expect from a friend in a case like that. Hard to know why. Somehow, I dont believe that this POI is directly involved in the disappearance of LS. But avoiding to directly deal with the police, begs the question of why not. Does this POI know something that he does not want to disclose to the police under questionning? I am also wondering whether the police was able to obtain a warrant to do a forensic search of the places/apartments where LS was allegedly present before she disappeared.

This kids lawyer should learn to keep his mouth closed.He not doing his client any favors.Why not just confirm the post story while your at it.The police want the ability to interview witnesses multiple times.They do not want to be provided statements most likely prepared by his lawyer.They do not consider that cooperating.Same story with the lie detector test.

 

[elmomom]

This kids lawyer should learn to keep his mouth closed.He not doing his client any favors.Why not just confirm the post story while your at it.The police want the ability to interview witnesses multiple times.They do not want to be provided statements most likely prepared by his lawyer.They do not consider that cooperating.Same story with the lie detector test.

For most of the population, hearing that he has passed a polygraph will counter the effect of the salacious story in the Post which quoted unnamed sources saying JR was not cooperative. Who did they ask BTW?

 

[mamamia54]

I'm just not sure where to go from here. I still feel that a random abduction is a possibility, but if so, why not inform the public that this could be the case?

 

[phantomthought]

That's pretty weak sauce to do a polygraph outside of police presence and then send them the results.

I mean, if you don't trust them and don't want to do one, fine.
But if you do one to exonerate yourself, you might want to just do it with LE so you can, you know, actually exonerate yourself.

That is one of the reasons you hire a lawyer.He negotiates with the police to have an independent examiner that they both can agree on administer the test.

 

[elmomom]

I read that the fraternity that JW, JR (and ZO?) belonged to was disbarred because of hazing. I think I heard (but I am not certain of the source so take it with a grain of salt) that the hazing involved taking a drunken pledge and dropping him off in the wilderness and expecting him to find his own way back. It has seemed to me from early on that there is some bad blood amongst some of the frat members. Could this have been a retaliation gone horribly wrong?

 

[Glaucon]

BUMP of my own previous question:

Can anyone with more experience than me answer the following?

- Do the Spierers have enough for a wrongful death suit, or would they need a body?
- Does the criminal investigation need to be over before you can file a civil suit?
- It seems the LE has/had enough evidence to make a few drug arrests here, or at least probable cause searches. What are reasons they wouldn't arrest someone on drug charges just to get them back to Bloomington?

I've consulted the interwebz and found some information (I'll admit to already knowing some of this before asking, I was just being lazy and pumping the other brains in here).

The Spierers can file a civil suit, the question is whether they can win one. Just about anyone can file a civil suit for just about anything, but that doesn't mean it won't get thrown out. Also, criminal and civil courts are totally separate so technically they could file any time. However, it will help them to let the criminal investigation generate as much information as possible. PLEASE correct me if I'm off here or if you know more.

I still don't know the answer to the drug arrest question. Why wouldn't LE arrest a POI on drug charges just to get him into custody? Can they not even prove drugs at this point? Wouldn't an arrest give them more access?

 

[elmomom]

That is one of the reasons you hire a lawyer.He negotiates with the police to have an independent examiner that they both can agree on administer the test.

Too bad we don't have regularly scheduled pressers anymore, as I am sure someone would have asked LE to comment on the nature of the polygraph and whether it was mutually agreed upon, or not. Right now, we do not know.

 

[mamamia54]

Too bad we don't have regularly scheduled pressers anymore, as I am sure someone would have asked LE to comment on the nature of the polygraph and whether it was mutually agreed upon, or not. Right now, we do not know.

Those pressers are really my way of getting info from the horses mouth, so to speak, rather than read things that we really aren't sure are accurate.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Again my thanks to longtime local for going and taking this photo and uploading it for all of us to see..

I also wanted to ensure that it is known as a FACT that long time local has told us THERE WAS NO FLASH USED.. she used her tripod and took this excellent photo representing probably as close to what the view was that very night/morning when JR supposedly watched Lauren round the corner of 11th/College..

So, in now knowing for a fact that there was no flash used it does completely negate the information that in using a flash it actually would make the corner area seem even darker or less visible.. This is not relevant and is not accurate in the least in speaking of the ^above^ photo.. Again longtime local used NO FLASH!!

If anything the lighting of this shown in this photo(again with NO FLASH USED) would most likely be greater than the actual lighting at the time LS supposedly was seen rounding the corner.. Why? Because just as has been thoroughly discussed at this time the phase was a new moon, where basically there is no moonlight available.. Therefor at the actual time and date that Jason Rosenbaum claims that he watched Lauren walk to and round the corner onto College Ave would have been even darker and even less visible than what LTL's photo even represents.. Which in studying it is apparent that even on a night where moonlight is available and therefor giving us more visibility.. Obviously it still is quite clear and most agree that the strong likelihood is apparent that Jason Rosenbaum's "claim" to have visually seen Lauren round this same exact corner is highly unlikely(and that is withOUT bringing in to question that he could have seen her from a window when here ^above^ shows us the view from standing outside of the townhome on the sidewalk with a dead ahead view)..

Thanks again LTL..

 

[elmomom]

snip

lol I am still unconvinced, sorry. Just to be clear, I wasn't the one bringing up the flash. I was responding to another poster who was trying to claim that it would have been even darker out than the picture if it were taken with a flash.

I'm pretty ready to move on, as I am not going to be convinced one way or another from photographs.
And, I think there's a good probability that the statement "watched her walk to the corner" was not verbatim from JR. It came from HT.

so this cannot possibly prove anything to me. But use it for your own reasoning, I am not trying to convince you to agree with me. I just am asking for you to stop trying to convince me...

 

[SmoothOperator]

Re: the question of why no drug charges to bring in a
pOI and press him further on possible involvement in LS disappearance..

IMO there is one reason.. Because there is no body to even run toxicology on to even prove that there was for certain drug use involved in the night's events..

Without That all LE has is a bunch of speculating drug use and/or ppl accusing that there was drug use that night.. Which if either of those things warranted an arrest on drug charges.. Well.. I think it's obvious what a circus type mess the judicial system would be In.. Every pissed off neighbor deciding to call police on a neighbor they dislike and claim their drug users.. Would have tons and tons of innocent ppl and a waste of LE time and money..

So without a body to even prove there was drug use how else would there be grounds for an arrest of anyone on a drug charge?