IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #17

[VeryVeritas]

AB appears to have either deleted his Facebook account or made it private so that no one can search for him.

I looked him up shortly after his name first became a part of the conversation, and as I recall, he did not have a girlfriend and was not Facebook friends with ANY of the POIs except for ZO. From what I could gather when I looked at his profile and his photos, he and ZO appear to be best friends and AB seems like the hard-partying drunk friend who is always ready to take a goofy picture. Seems like he has a lot of girls who are friends, but no actual "girlfriend".

There was a rather lengthy YT thread that went on about AB too... I could only envision Harold and Kumar...

 

[ahduke99]

This is why I think she was flirting with one of these guys. I can understand her going back there (5 North) alone at the end of the night - running back with CR since he was apparently just punched. But she was partying with the boys earlier, apparently, and watching the game on TV. Many girls aren't even sports' fans......I have no idea if she was or not. I know that when I was in college, I'd sometimes endure having to do something I didn't enjoy (like watching basketball on TV) just to be with a guy I liked. Also, many girls would have had no problem hanging out with a bunch of guys alone (if there was one they really liked).

That would be my only explanation that she had a thing for CR. Otherwise, I have no idea why she'd be partying exclusively with a bunch of guys except wanting to hang out with him and perhaps gaining approval of his friends.


Sent from my iPad

 

[VeryVeritas]

You all keep saying someone would have cracked by now if a few of them were involved. Well, its been over a month and they haven't. Their future is on the line, why would they crack? To get a lighter sentence? They would still serve jail time and their reputation and name would be tarnished forever.

I know the reports say they have already done this, but they need to THOROUGHLY search Lake Monroe. I'd bet the house she OD'd. They panicked, drove down to Monroe, tied her to some cinder blocks, and back to campus 30 minutes later. Sorry if that's crude or foul, but that's what my gut has been telling me all along.

Why Lake Monroe? Is it that familiar? Stated above ZO/AB were not in the photos of the AEBi frat party on the Lake. If they were the undertakers, what links them to that location?

 

[VeryVeritas]

Someone mentioned JW FB pics of his album called Boat/date party. Does anyone find it weird that in one of the pics he calls HT a nympho? Maybe there is more there than we thought and she is protecting him by steering the police towards JR.

He also mentions Xanax in several pics and Mushrooms in a few others. So I think the group is familiar with pharmaceutical drugs.

Shrooms are way beyond pharmaceuticals... Thanks for that info.

There are people who persistently want to think these people are all all in a seminary. i've been trying to gauge the degree of the party atmosphere and really would like to hear from people who were close to the POI's about what partying was really like with this crew. It seems that cocaine was quite common, xanax brought up numerous times, many of them drank heavily, i've not heard any reference to pot, but that could just be passe, like beer in everyone's fridge. now references to shrooms. How many dimensions beyond this does it go before people are found dead? I'd say the partying sounds like it was the kind of extreme partying I've seen affluent college people having all over the country. I've yet to hear anything factual to the contrary.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Does anyone know if JR's roommates are still in Bloomington for the summer (or if they were there when she disappeared?) I recall Northside (who hasn't posted in a while) saying that he walked by their place around midnight once just to check things out and see what it looked like in that area when it was dark, and he said that there were lights on in JR's townhouse. This was after JR went home to Michigan. If he had roommates who were still in town, they might fill in some of the 8, 9, and 10 spaces. The townhouse he lives in is a 5 bedroom, so I would assume he had 4 roommates during the school year.

Why would you assume that he had 4 room mates during the year? I've not even heard that he had one room mate. what has been established is that the dude has a lot of cash. This would be a party palace. One would wonder why you would even go to Kilroys...

 

[VeryVeritas]

I thought that was AB.

Anyone?

AA found the purse/keys at 3:00am

AB bears similarity to the description of the man the 3:38 witness describes and his apt is near that location.

 

[phantomthought]

From what I read elsewhere JR's roomates were gone for the summer and he had stayed back to party.

I wonder how many times LS was alone with JR when his roommates were not around and no chance of them showing up?

 

[Tr.]

Can anyone think of another case, where someone claimed they were the last person to see a victim when they weren't? I am genuinely curious if this has happened before in a disappearance case.

EDIT: Now that I've re-read this, I should phrase it differently. :crazy:

I guess what I am after, is can anyone think of another case where someone has been dishonest about seeing a victim where it puts them in an awkward position. I am *not* saying that this is what JR did, I am just curious if this is something that has ever happened in another case, that someone can think of. Thanks.

The main suspect in the Hailey Dunn case comes to mind.

 

[Tr.]

Why would you assume that he had 4 room mates during the year? I've not even heard that he had one room mate. what has been established is that the dude has a lot of cash. This would be a party palace. One would wonder why you would even go to Kilroys...

A WS poster from Bloomington stated that they visited 5 North and the mailbox for JR's place had three other names on it.

 

[Pedrosmom]

What is also interesting about this idea that AB showed up at the Gravel Lot as LS and CR exited the Alley is that CR was not further injured, MB says that LS was there... and apparently JR said LS was last with him. Why on earth would JR cover for AB? Why would MB cover for AB? Why wouldn't they all just explain that they never saw her after midnight. Except for CR... he could still just claim Amnesia. One possibility is that MB and JR simply agreed to cover for CR not knowing at all what happened. They may not have realized that she really did go missing when they made those statements and now are stuck with them.

Another thought. I keep wondering about how soon after LS and CR passed out of that Alley 2:51 with approximately 3 to 5 minutes more to get to CR's door that AA found LS's purse with keys inside right there outside of that Alley area where LE says there was "Activity" I just can't stop thining how AA happened to find this stuff just laying there while not seeing any people around or any noise, cars, etc... How could the timimg of their passage... Activity on the cam, loss of LS's purse and AA's find be so close together yet AA sees nothing but the purse? I still do not know from where AA was coming nor exactly where he was going.

@btown - I have another map request. Not only would I like to see the rough area that should be captured by that Alley exit cam next to the Gravel lot, i would also like to see the path that AA said he took. I don't recall if AA said he was alone? Does AA have a roommate? Who is it? Does AA or his Roommate have ties to Z0/AB or any of the others?

Now, if AA was there finding the purse at 3:00am... and AB or unk person had just been there slinging LS over his shoulder, while CR kept stumbling home... it just doesn't seem possible to me that AA could miss all of this. The time window is as narrow as 2 minutes. AA would have virtually had to teleport to the location at 3:00 to have missed that sort of "activity" If he were already in the parking lot getting out of a car before that, he and others in the car should have seen something. If he (AA) was in another apartment and was going from one to another, again that time window as small as 2 minutes again is made even smaller by the time it took him to walk from the first apartment to where he found the purse.

If that is even possible then, here is another possible twist on existing theories:
AB slings LS over his shoulder(motive unknown) as CR and LS exit the Alley, she looses purse/keys (I'm not sure if her bracelet was recovered?) CR continues to stumble home. AB follows with LS... then CR is already in his apt as AB/LS arrive... AB stays sort of in the background or even outside the door. Others are there and possibly JR... so they venture back out where perhaps AB is hanging around and joins them. Since AB's place is on the way back to Smallwood he offers to walk LS home, but is getting a charge out of this playful and tipsy(or more than tipsy) hottie. He then starts walking her home down N. College and she's falling all over and maybe hits her head a few times and is seriously injured but he doesn't realize it right away. They run into the 3:38 witness as this is happening... it's not clear to me which way the witness is going or which way this pair are headed. If it's AB perhaps he decides to take LS to his apt instead of Smallwood. In doing so perhaps she convulses and dies, how does he explain this situation to LE? It would look bad. So perhaps he then stashes the body and goes back to JR and tells him what happened. JR then calls DR to have him let AB into Smallwood - perhaps so that AB could put the body inside of LS/HT's apt. Now it seems AB had easy access to Smallwood earlier, but he may not have a key, others may need to let him in... Perhaps this was going to be DR. At this point only 2 people would know what happened JR and AB, and both could be convinced it was an accident that would point at the 2 of them. AB could have been more afraid because of his ethnicity that LE might be more inclined to pin it on him. So JR may have decided to let the trail go cold with him to keep things simpler. If LE knew about AB, AB could point the finger back at JR. So a pact is plausible. But this plan to get the body back to Smallwood didn't work out because AB needed some way to get in (or get LS in) without being noticed. At this point LS may have still been alive, and died in the pandemonium of trying to get her back into her apt. Now one way or the other AB is stuck and has to do something with her.

Please poke holes in that scenario. Thank You.

VV - VERY interesting theory. AA is certainly under the radar now. Perhaps his prints were on the keys as he had already picked them up so he's got to fess up to something. I think CR was toast and when he and LS came upon this group in the gravel lot said I'm outta here as he just had the snot beaten out of him earlier. So he misses out on what happens. I'm wondering how JR gets himself involved - assuming they never entered the apartment building and everything happens in the gravel lot before they would have gone in. So we have more than a few POI's in the gravel lot. Some there because they live there, others there because they knew LS and CR were headed that way (the waiters) but in the end, they all have some culpability because something happens to Lauren. Perhaps it was an accident, an OD, a fall, but be as it may they now have a body and they're all involved no matter how they look at it. They're trying to figure out how to get that body out of that lot and somewhere hidden until they can all figure this thing out. They figure it out and that's where the oath of silence comes in. If one goes down, they all go down. I just can't figure how JR gets himself involved. He could have been minding his own business in his apt and never had anything to do with this whole mess but for a phone call at 4:15. I don't get it. And MB? He's minding his own business doing his papers. I can see AA and AB, ZO with AB and JW somewhere in this mess. But if, and its a mighty if, Lauren never enters the apartments (which if we are to believe LE and the event happened as CR and LS approach the gravel lot after the 2:51 sighting and she met her demise) UNLESS, they brought the body inside the apartments, she didn't die in the gravel lot but went inside while the waiters continued to wait, and MB and JR saw the whole thing. Now I'm confusing myself. What I'm getting at is do you think she made it inside the apartments alive? If you take what LE says about the 3AM "event," like I do, then I take it as she was attacked, fell, had the fatal event right then and there and the perp is on the camera but we have no body - then she could have never made it inside the apartments alive, or on her own. Am I confusing you? I just need to take a step back for a minute because I'm starting to talk smack and in circles. Maybe I'm putting too much weight on the LE and the secret 3AM event.

 

[Barry]

I keep circling around JR. If he's being honest it swings my thinking about the timeline and events in a completely different direction than if he isn't. This is one of the keys, IMO.

(This is probably a no-brainer to everyone else, but my gears are turning slowly on this, lol).

 

[Berk13]

Why Lake Monroe? Is it that familiar? Stated above ZO/AB were not in the photos of the AEBi frat party on the Lake. If they were the undertakers, what links them to that location?

I don't know that DMBand was saying ZO/AB did it. I think the speculation was just that Lake Monroe is well-known to most college students, so it was a possible place if one of the POIs is responsible for the disappearance. I agree ZO/AB probably wouldn't pick that spot given their familiarity with Indy and the areas north of Bloomington, but any of the other POIs who aren't as familiar with Bloomington's surrounding areas/cities might choose Lake Monroe as a place to dump a body.

 

[Berk13]

Why would you assume that he had 4 room mates during the year? I've not even heard that he had one room mate. what has been established is that the dude has a lot of cash. This would be a party palace. One would wonder why you would even go to Kilroys...

I would assume that because it's a five bedroom place, and I don't know of any IU students who would live in a five bedroom home all alone with no roommates. Five bedrooms = most likely 5 guys living there. JR + 4 roommates. Someone else posted that they saw three other names on the mailbox for his unit, so that points to at least three roommates. Maybe if that's the case, they used the extra bedroom as storage, a second living room, office, etc.

College students typically want to live with their friends. I know very few undergrads, especially those who like to "party", who would choose to live alone.

If we want to give any credence to the people on the PT board, a guy claiming to be JW's roommate said that JR lived with other guys from Michigan. This is obviously a rumor and I cannot verify it. Moderators, feel free to remove that info if I'm not allowed to say it!

I think I saw a post earlier about the fourth floor? I think JR's unit is the only one with a fourth floor. You can view the fourth floor's plan at this link: http://currydevelopment.com/5north/floorplans_unit297_4f.html

 

[Pedrosmom]

I'm going to throw this out there - please answer with links if you can.

AA - is he associated with any of the POIs? if so, how? Am I correct in stating that he is a POI?
The fight at Smallwood - who were all the people involved that ganged up on CR? Do we know all of them? Where was JW during this altercation?
ZO and AB - do they hand with JR/MB/CR crowd?
ZO and AB - are they friends with JW? Where do they live?
Where does JW live? (I thought I heard LE state that they searched a house (JW's) but I could be wrong)
Who are JW's roommates?
HT - is she dating anyone? anyone that is friends with any of the POI's?
Do we know what HT did that entire evening?

My brain is fried. If you can lend me a hand, I'd appreciate it.

 

[amoncrieff]

Nope, AB did not find the keys. It was someone with the initials AA.

LoHud quoting a Journal News account of the finder & key on 6/10:

IU student AJ Amin, 19, told The Journal News on Friday that he saw a small purple pouch with a gold key shortly before 3 a.m. that morning on the sidewalk near that building. He said he left it there and that a friend of his put it on a railing when he saw it there a few hours later. "I didn't know they were hers," said Amin, who had not yet given his account to police.​

USA Today article published on 7/2 which underscores the fact that ...

A salon worker who noticed keys and a purse near the spot where Spierer was seen on surveillance cameras June 3 has never had a face-to-face interview with police, or the chance to show them the location.​

So, co-finder informs newspaper of discovery; BPD has yet to interview finders; BPD may/may not have performed a comprehensive search of the discovery area for additional evidence (i.e., hair, fiber etc) in the event LS returned or retraced her path in search of key/purse.

 

[Jupiter812]

I would assume that because it's a five bedroom place, and I don't know of any IU students who would live in a five bedroom home all alone with no roommates. Five bedrooms = most likely 5 guys living there. JR + 4 roommates. Someone else posted that they saw three other names on the mailbox for his unit, so that points to at least three roommates. Maybe if that's the case, they used the extra bedroom as storage, a second living room, office, etc.

If we want to give any credence to the people on the PT board, a guy claiming to be JW's roommate said that JR lived with other guys from Michigan. This is obviously a rumor and I cannot verify it. Moderators, feel free to remove that info if I'm not allowed to say it! ml[/url]

Last fall he had four roommates. Judging by their names they may have been the ousted AEPIs. Their names are on Internet because of a break- in in late dec.

 

[Gabby66]

re. the thought that LS/CR were approached by "waiters" in the alley.....

I keep going back to a post by Tony Gatto. He said that he didn't believe that the fight had anything to do with LS. Being a Journalist, I would assume someone has planted that bug in his hear, giving him reason to believe that, as opposed to the thought coming out of the blue. If it's true, then why would ZO or AB abduct LS? I don't think they would. So, what about this.......

LS/CR walks back to 5 North. On their way, the see the "waiters" and CR calls MB or JR for help (or since they are close, maybe JR or MB happens to be outside or see/hear something and come to the gravel area. A fight ensues off camera and in the process, LS tried to help. She is little. A punch is thrown and she's killed accidentally. This would give them ALL reason to want to collaborate a story. Saying she went to 5 North would make sense, given that she left with CR....but why say that she then went to JR's?

Details are still sketchy with this one but it's surely possible that she was hurt/killed during some altercation. I just keep thinking that the fight had nothing to do with LS b/c I've read several rumors that those boys really weren't friends with JW, so I don't think they were trying to get LS away from CR. JMO

 

[Gabby66]

IU student AJ Amin, 19, told The Journal News on Friday that he saw a small purple pouch with a gold key shortly before 3 a.m. that morning on the sidewalk near that building. He said he left it there and that a friend of his put it on a railing when he saw it there a few hours later. "I didn't know they were hers," said Amin, who had not yet given his account to police.​

This bolded quote has always bothered me......so he made this comment to the newspaper BEFORE giving an account to the police? If true, then exactly how did he know they were hers?

It's a bit odd to me that he'd maybe learn of a girl missing and then start asking, "What did her purse look like? I found one." or that people would even be talking about what her accessories looked like, for him to know. I just think it's strange that he'd somehow find out they were hers without having even talked to the police about this.

 

[Pedrosmom]

IU student AJ Amin, 19, told The Journal News on Friday that he saw a small purple pouch with a gold key shortly before 3 a.m. that morning on the sidewalk near that building. He said he left it there and that a friend of his put it on a railing when he saw it there a few hours later. "I didn't know they were hers," said Amin, who had not yet given his account to police.

What would his "friend" be doing there a few hours later than 3AM??? Are AA and AB friends? This is too coincidental. I lose things and never find them. LS loses her key in a gravel lot, which by all accounts doesn't appear to be well traveled (correct me if I'm wrong) and it's found within minutes of her losing it? Then it's moved again hours later in the wee hours of the morning? It's DARK out for one, and at 3AM, I'm sure you're not sober, yet you find a coin purse and gold key, then your friend finds it again, a few hours later, in the dark. AA is flying higher under the radar for me now. So is AB and that group that was out to get CR.

She's supposed to go to her boyfriend's after the game. Instead, she's with another guy, leaves the cell phone at the bar so NO CONTACT, the boyfriend knows who she's with (HT) and knows where he lives. Ironically, the guys that beat up CR earlier, are vicariously close to CR's apartment - why? Can't get ahold of her by phone so let's try and find her on foot, or car, or send so and so down there... why else would they be down there and whoa, look at that they even find her keys, what a coincidence. I'm not trying to poke fun at this serious situation but to have 2 people, that knew each other, find keys in the middle of the night on a night when the same girl whose key's they've found goes missing. I can't but imagine that AA and possible AB are the men on the videotape. The timing (3 AM) that LE puts the "event" ironically puts AA there as well. Who is this AA guy? Someone help me out.

Somewhere someone states (I believe it was the TG site) that the altercation at Smallwood between this group of guys and CR had nothing to do with Lauren being with CR at the time - I would strongly disagree. What other beef would they have with this CR but the obvious? CR is with JW's girl. That is where I cannot let JW off of the hook.

I can't get over this key scenario and the people involved.

I also want to know what JW did after he dropped the roommate off at class at 8. I would also like to know if he made any phone calls to AA, AB, and ZO at ANYTIME that evening and following day.

I look at this case as having 2 groups of suspects - the JW's and the JR's. The JW's are starting to appear in places they shouldn't be at 3AM.

 

[jenniek]

Sorry everyone, I have been trying to catch up but am lost on the point of the "gravel lot" is this the same as the alley or somewhere close? TIA