IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #17

[Pedrosmom]

I'm not aware of any videos that have been released, can you clarify?

Here's a pic of the gravel lot, not sure if it's the one you're referring to, but there are no cameras that cover it.

The camera on the top of the building is outlined in a sort of toast shape. There was another, I'll find it.

 

[Pedrosmom]

I'm not aware of any videos that have been released, can you clarify?

Here's a pic of the gravel lot, not sure if it's the one you're referring to, but there are no cameras that cover it.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140294"]IN IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 *PHOTOS & MAPS* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

See post #3. Great page for location of all security cameras along LS's route or possible route.

 

[Thelonious]

We can theorize all we like, but to actually move this case any further is going to require finding a body.

If one or more of the IU kids was responsible for disposing of the body, by far the most likely place for it is in the landfill. By all accounts, these kids are far from criminal masterminds. They are also not locals who would feel comfortable navigating the boonies to find a good disposal place. Their main objective was just to get the evidence out of their apartment while high as a kite at 4:30 in the morning.

They apparently lucked out with a PD that is content to let evidence degrade in the summer heat because they don't feel like going down to the dump to look for her.

Murderers of the midwest, come on down! Leave your bodies in Bloomington dumpsters and your problems are solved.

 

[Jupiter812]

If the video wasn't evidence, they would have released it, like they released other videos. Also, I'm not certain this is the only video showing the activity. She exits the alley and enters the gravel lot. The pictures of the gravel lot clearly show 2 cameras, one mounted to the left and one mounted almost dead center on the apt building. Whatever happened in the gravel lot must have been caught on camera, not just the 2:51 camera with the exit of the alley and entry to the gravel lot.

No alley videos have been released. No cameras on the gravel lot.

 

[Pedrosmom]

We can theorize all we like, but to actually move this case any further is going to require finding a body.

If one or more of the IU kids was responsible for disposing of the body, by far the most likely place for it is in the landfill. By all accounts, these kids are far from criminal masterminds. They are also not locals who would feel comfortable navigating the boonies to find a good disposal place. Their main objective was just to get the evidence out of their apartment while high as a kite at 4:30 in the morning.

They apparently lucked out with a PD that is content to let evidence degrade in the summer heat because they don't feel like going down to the dump to look for her.

Murderers of the midwest, come on down! Leave your bodies in Bloomington dumpsters and your problems are solved.

I recall a case where the husband claimed to be in medical school when he never even finished undergrad and killed his wife and threw her in the gardbage. I forgot the name but he had bought a new mattress the day she went missing. Anyway, they were able to map out the landfill by address and date of pick up and narrow it down to a small area, based on the dumps that were made since the date she went missing. They had drawn up this grid which basically had her confined to a small section of the landfill. They brought in cadaver dogs and put protective coverings on their paws to protect them from injury and they found the body in a very short period of time. There is a science to garbage dumps. The trucks are logged in and their load is placed in certain areas, etc. I was quite surprised actually. WHY can't they do this? I'm certain they can narrow this down to a small area because if she wasn't seen on camera, she didn't go very far. Take the witness account of where the guy with the girl thrown over his shoulder - where was he headed? How many dumpsters in that area? Get my drift? The city of Btown OWES it to this family to search. This is a disgrace. The cost would have been a fraction had they done it a month and a half ago! Now they cry over cost? Did you ask the family? What a disgrace. If this were my daughter and the thought of her being in a landfill for the rest of my life would send me to the loony bin. Give this family a break. At least grid the landfill off and be realistic about where she possibly could be and search for this poor girl so that her family can bury her properly, not in a garbage dump. If it were the police chief's daughter, I wonder how quick that landfill would have been searched. The whole thought of this makes me ill. They just put a whole lot of POIs at ease and just about ruined any circumstantial case they may have had against any of them. Is that what you get for paying out of state tuition? a sh** sandwich. RIP Sweet Lauren, wherever you may be.

 

[British]

One of the POIs who don't know her as a good friend might not be so inclined to take her to the hospital if it was drug-related.

So do you have any thoughts about why a POI would hurt her? Like, is it personal (directed to her specifically) or is he violent (and possible to do it again)?

I dont think it was personal, because based on what I read I am very convinced that her boyfriend (JW) is not involved in any way. Whoever did it is obviously a murderer, even if that was OD and then they disposed her body. Somehow though I think it was rape/murder and I hope that the police will have eventually enough evidence to make any arrest.

 

[Pedrosmom]

No alley videos have been released. No cameras on the gravel lot.

There are. One is on the red brick building. If you would follow the link I posted you can see. I didn't take the pictures or locate the cameras, someone else did. Someone actually went to Btown, took the pics and posted them here with a descrip of all the cameras.

 

[bx2]

There are. One is on the red brick building. If you would follow the link I posted you can see. I didn't take the pictures or locate the cameras, someone else did. Someone actually went to Btown, took the pics and posted them here with a descrip of all the cameras.

I'm not really sure how I can convince you otherwise, but I am perfectly certain that there are no cameras that face the gravel lot. You are linking to the post from where I already referenced a picture of the area. All I can do is try again.

There are 2 cameras on the NW corner of Tenth and College and the N/S alley between College and Morton, one faces south (this is the camera she was last seen on) and one faces east toward College Ave. On the NW corner of the Villages (this would be at the intersection of Morton and the E/W alley), there is the same type of arrangement, one camera faces south down Morton, one faces east toward the handrail (though the handrail is too far east to actually be within view of this camera as it is angled downward).

 

[cluciano63]

I recall a case where the husband claimed to be in medical school when he never even finished undergrad and killed his wife and threw her in the gardbage. I forgot the name but he had bought a new mattress the day she went missing. Anyway, they were able to map out the landfill by address and date of pick up and narrow it down to a small area, based on the dumps that were made since the date she went missing. They had drawn up this grid which basically had her confined to a small section of the landfill. They brought in cadaver dogs and put protective coverings on their paws to protect them from injury and they found the body in a very short period of time. There is a science to garbage dumps. The trucks are logged in and their load is placed in certain areas, etc. I was quite surprised actually. WHY can't they do this? I'm certain they can narrow this down to a small area because if she wasn't seen on camera, she didn't go very far. Take the witness account of where the guy with the girl thrown over his shoulder - where was he headed? How many dumpsters in that area? Get my drift? The city of Btown OWES it to this family to search. This is a disgrace. The cost would have been a fraction had they done it a month and a half ago! Now they cry over cost? Did you ask the family? What a disgrace. If this were my daughter and the thought of her being in a landfill for the rest of my life would send me to the loony bin. Give this family a break. At least grid the landfill off and be realistic about where she possibly could be and search for this poor girl so that her family can bury her properly, not in a garbage dump. If it were the police chief's daughter, I wonder how quick that landfill would have been searched. The whole thought of this makes me ill. They just put a whole lot of POIs at ease and just about ruined any circumstantial case they may have had against any of them. Is that what you get for paying out of state tuition? a sh** sandwich. RIP Sweet Lauren, wherever you may be.

Lori Hacking was the victim...

But I still think a lake is possible for Lauren as well as any rural area within 30 miles or so...just too many places...as Marc Klaas says, it is a great big world and bodies are very small...

 

[Berk13]

I checked IU People Finder and no, AB is not a student.

Hey guys, I'm a few days behind on the posts, so excuse me in advance if someone else has already said this. I just read Jupiter's post about AB not being an IU student, so I checked the directory for the nearby Ivy Tech Community College (where LS was supposed to take her summer class) and he is listed as a student there.

 

[Gabby66]

A little bit more background to the context from which Qualters was responding to with the quote mentioned above. I don't want to give the impression that I'm arguing against any "activity" happening, merely trying to establish that I don't think we have enough info to say that it did or didn't.

From the Jun 12th conference, I believe it is fair that he was getting a bit flustered by the questions, even misspeaks about the direction that they last have her traveling in. The following exchange occurs after the attempted directional clarification:

Q: So she's walking south to north through that back alley, kind of parking lot area
A: Yes
Q: Does the video show you how that set of keys ends up on that railing
A: <Pause> We have information from that video, um, that again gives us an indication of not only the direction, but the activities that have taken place from where that video shows. So we're we're, ya know, we have that, but that's not something that we're willing to share at this point.


IMO, after listening, he is dodging the question related to the keys and going back to trying to give a general clarification about the video that they have of her.

It's funny how several people can read the same thing and get several different opinions. I don't mean that to sound sassy. I truly think it's funny, b/c I read something totally different into this than you do. You see, I think he's not dodging the question, but rather answering it (without giving away too much). The question is about whether the video shows how the keys end up on that railing. He says that the video gives an indication of "the activities" Then he says "we have that". Now that you provide the full transcript, IMO one of the activities he's describing is how her keys get on that railing. Therefore, it now could mean something so simple as showing the guy putting them up there. But - if the video points to that location, it means that not only do they see how they got up there, but they see how they fell and what happened to cause that. JMO

 

[Berk13]

Sorry to post twice in a row, but I also just read Jupiter's post that AB is in the IU email directory when he searched via the University email system.

So it appears that AB is a student at both IU and Ivy Tech. This is fairly common - sometimes students will take required courses such as their English or History or Math classes (general ed requirements I guess you could call them) at Ivy Tech because it's less expensive than IU. Sometimes they think the classes at Ivy Tech are easier too.

This is also interesting because we know LS was taking a summer course at Ivy Tech before she headed back to NY for her internship. Perhaps she and AB were in the same class there?? They could have even carpooled to and from class if that were the case since Smallwood and 10th & College were so close to each other. Ivy Tech is about 3-4 miles away from where they lived, and really only accessible via car (maybe bus...but if they had cars I'm sure they would just drive to class).

While we don't know for sure if they knew each other or were in a class together, it definitely brings up the possibility that LS and AB could've been acquaintances or friends through Ivy Tech. The class sizes there are much smaller than many classes at IU, so if they were in a class together there's a good chance they would know each other.

 

[Tr.]

C. LE specifically states that they saw "ACTIVITY" on camera, in that are. we are not told what it is. Could be drugs, sex, altercation - any of these are possible. Heck, it could be that LS was doing cartwheels down the alley. I tend to think it's something significant though, that makes LE feel it's related to the case. The reasons I suspect this are:

1. LE has given us very few leads about the events of the night, but this is one they've specifically stated: That there was activity in the alley. This tells me that they see something specific happening (and that it's not just cartwheels). It's almost like a message to the POIs that "We see what you were doing). I think there's just not enough there however. Perhaps this activity began just before they walked out of the camera's view. This takes me back to the idea that it could have been a couple of guys approaching them (activity) and CR started to bolt, but they tackled him out of camera's view in the gravel lot. IF this

With regard to the "activity", didn't LE recently elaborate on that point by saying "let's just say they were making their way".?

I envision something less violent and maybe more on the embarrassing side such as:
- stopping to urinate in the alley and/or falling down repeatedly.

Their travel time from Smallwood to 5 North seems "long" to me.
Maybe they made out for five minutes?

It seems like CR's injuries would have been more serious if he was rolled or tackled or punched again.

 

[sueC]

I recall a case where the husband claimed to be in medical school when he never even finished undergrad and killed his wife and threw her in the gardbage. I forgot the name but he had bought a new mattress the day she went missing. Anyway, they were able to map out the landfill by address and date of pick up and narrow it down to a small area, based on the dumps that were made since the date she went missing. They had drawn up this grid which basically had her confined to a small section of the landfill. They brought in cadaver dogs and put protective coverings on their paws to protect them from injury and they found the body in a very short period of time. There is a science to garbage dumps. The trucks are logged in and their load is placed in certain areas, etc. I was quite surprised actually. WHY can't they do this? I'm certain they can narrow this down to a small area because if she wasn't seen on camera, she didn't go very far. Take the witness account of where the guy with the girl thrown over his shoulder - where was he headed? How many dumpsters in that area? Get my drift? The city of Btown OWES it to this family to search. This is a disgrace. The cost would have been a fraction had they done it a month and a half ago! Now they cry over cost? Did you ask the family? What a disgrace. If this were my daughter and the thought of her being in a landfill for the rest of my life would send me to the loony bin. Give this family a break. At least grid the landfill off and be realistic about where she possibly could be and search for this poor girl so that her family can bury her properly, not in a garbage dump. If it were the police chief's daughter, I wonder how quick that landfill would have been searched. The whole thought of this makes me ill. They just put a whole lot of POIs at ease and just about ruined any circumstantial case they may have had against any of them. Is that what you get for paying out of state tuition? a sh** sandwich. RIP Sweet Lauren, wherever you may be.

Thanks for posting about the Lori Hacking case. They found her remains 2 1/2 months after she was killed, so there's a chance searchers could still find Lauren, IF she was thrown in a dumpster. But in this case her husband confessed and they knew which dumpster he used to dispose of her body.


The Court TV article stated that there were 38 volunteers including, police officers, firefighters, public safety officials and Urban Search and Rescue Team members who helped look for human remains at the World Trade Center. They spent on average 11 hours a day, four days a week conducting the backbreaking search. The crew, dressed in steel-plated boots, coveralls, thick leather gloves, masks and protective eyewear, combed through the rank trash using pitchforks, yet eventually resorted to digging through the garbage with their hands, the Salt Lake Tribune reported.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/family/mark_hacking/index.html

The discovery came on the 33rd working day of a search of 4,600 tons of garbage. Over the past weeks, investigators used cadaver dogs and brought in garden rakes to comb through the trash.

(snip) Searchers at the 550-acre landfill had concentrated their search on a football-sized stretch, going through compacted garbage 20 feet deep. Police Chief Rick Dinse said the remains found "were not all intact."

The remains were found among trash that included newspapers dated July 16-19, the weekend Lori Hacking disappeared. They also found business envelopes indicating they were from the University of Utah Research Park area where Mark Hacking worked. That is also the area where prosecutors believe the husband dumped his wife's body in a trash bin.

(snip) Investigators' hopes of finding the body had diminished in recent weeks. The search of landfill had been tedious, with each day presenting searchers and dogs with 300 or more tons of trash to sort through. "Landfill searches are historically unsuccessful," Dinse said. "Needle in a haystack may not even adequately describe it."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,134233,00.html

 

[Tr.]

Yes, her direction was toward the gravel lot behind 5 North. The same place where her wallet/keys were found. I don't think LE needs to disclose to the public all of the evidence they have gathered via cameras. This is for a jury to decide. I truly believe they have 2 more POIs on camera in addition to CR. I believe they were waiting for LS/CR to exit the alley and head toward 5 North via the gravel lot. I believe LE has them on tape and the activity that started/ended with Lauren going missing.

Seems like with all that LE would have enough to name a suspect by now...wonder what the hold up is?

 

[Tr.]

We can theorize all we like, but to actually move this case any further is going to require finding a body.

Agreed...and that's why we theorize.
Although, it is possible that LE will name a suspect before locating LS...that would give us direction for searching.
If we can collectively nail down a couple of good theories then maybe we can get a direction for searching without a named suspect and increase the odds of having closure in the case.

 

[Gabby66]

With regard to the "activity", didn't LE recently elaborate on that point by saying "let's just say they were making their way".?

I envision something less violent and maybe more on the embarrassing side such as:
- stopping to urinate in the alley and/or falling down repeatedly.

Their travel time from Smallwood to 5 North seems "long" to me.
Maybe they made out for five minutes?

It seems like CR's injuries would have been more serious if he was rolled or tackled or punched again.

I don't really recall this but yes, it sounds like something less sinister. I hate when people say, "Let's just say....." it sounds like "I know a secret but I can't tell you." Seriously, if they were "just making their way" and maybe stopped to pee, or make out, etc., why not just say something like, "The video shows LS and a friend walking down the alley. Their behavior is consistent with what you might expect college kids' to be at that time of night." The WAY he words things makes it seem worse than what it really may be IMO; it's a cross between, "I don't want to tarnish the case" and "I want to mess with the public on purpose." If they were making out, OK, I can understand given JW, that they might not want that out there to embarrass him. However, then why say anything at all? Just say. "The video shows them walking from one place to another - nothing alarming"

 

[Tr.]

There is only so much interconnectedness between Sports, Smallwood, and 5 North that we can know. There is a sequence of events, but each one is discrete too. I'm of the opinion that the continuation of the party at 5 North later on is key. It allows the mystery guest to enter the picture too. He could be totally responsible and no one would know.

Thanks.
How likely do you think it could be that the mystery guest pulled this off without JR's knowledge?
What would a likely scenario be?

 

[akh]

I've thought all along a dumpster was a likely scenario. I've said here previously that if it was any of the more obvious PsOI doing it they might've expected the body would be found but planned to blame it on random abduction and their concern was getting the body away from them. In the case of the 5 North PsOI, if involved, it would explain their stories and how they alibi each other (but no seemingly outside verification of their alleged alibis). Of course other PsOI could've used the dumpster as well with the same basic motivation.

But for the perps it's 'bonus' if the trash gets picked up before anyone checks the dumpster, let alone nobody checks the landfill. And for residents of 5 north they probably know when the dumpsters are picked up. They are probably up (partying or whatever) many times when it happens.

I don't know... several times I've questioned some of the police's handling of this case. I suppose if they had a POI or two with some really strange cell pings that morning it could take some focus off the dumpster for them. But then after a day or two of those pings leading them nowhere you'd think they'd WANT to check landfills before allowing more garbage to be dumped and making the search that much more difficult.

To me, once foul play was suspected, then the nearby dumpsters should've been more of a focus as well as the landfill. Especially if LE lacked much evidence that any of the PsOI left the area that morning.

On its surface, I call LE's move on this inept.

You know a search is likely coming now... and with over a month's worth of garbage now added to the pile... It probably will be costly.... now.... and the odds of success (even if a body is there) dwindles more with each new load of garbage.

 

[bx2]

It's funny how several people can read the same thing and get several different opinions. I don't mean that to sound sassy. I truly think it's funny, b/c I read something totally different into this than you do. You see, I think he's not dodging the question, but rather answering it (without giving away too much). The question is about whether the video shows how the keys end up on that railing. He says that the video gives an indication of "the activities" Then he says "we have that". Now that you provide the full transcript, IMO one of the activities he's describing is how her keys get on that railing. Therefore, it now could mean something so simple as showing the guy putting them up there. But - if the video points to that location, it means that not only do they see how they got up there, but they see how they fell and what happened to cause that. JMO

Oh, I totally agree about how people reading the same quote can get different things out of it. It's why I hate having to rely so heavily on transcripts and MSM stories to decipher the goings on. There's no doubt that when JQ gave that quote, in his mind, he knew exactly what he meant. I think we too heavily weight those words though because it's all we have. This isn't scripted, what people say doesn't have to have any meaning or relevance. I think of it like if I was in for a job interview and got asked a bunch of questions, then my answers were later written out verbatim, well people reading it later on am going to think I'm crazy, whereas my interviewers may think I was great.