IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #22

[holly18]

I've been following this case since LS first went missing and I think there are a few things people (not so much here but on other forums) are overlooking:
People seem to forget that just because we don't know that a POI has cooperated doesn't mean that they haven't cooperated with LE.
The exception to this (IMO) is JR, if he did leave bloomington as quickly as we think he did, I think chances are probably slim that he cooperated to the extent that LE would have liked. IMO him leaving so quickly (provided he actually did so) could either be because he had something directly to do with LS's disappearance, or because he knows who did and had reason to be scared enough to leave (like the DD scenario a few people have mentioned)

I think it seems like JW and CR have cooperated, at least in part. From what I've heard from articles and gossip JW stayed in bloomington until his parents and or the police told him to go home. Every theory that has been proposed in regards to his involvement has centered around jealousy and an unplanned act, IMO its unrealistic to think that JW hurt LS in a fit of rage/jealousy/whatever and just magically managed to hide her body, avoid cameras, keep up appearances the next day and even go so far as to call her parents and speak directly with LE. I think that is giving him too much credit, I don't see a freaked out 22 year old guy being that clever and clearheaded if he had just harmed his girlfriend of several years.

A question in regards to CR: is there any actual proof that he's friends with JR? I've seen people mention it but as far as I've actually seen stated in articles it seems like CR was pretty separate from LS's group of friends and JR... If CR and JR aren't close friends I can see no possible reason for JR to lie and say he was the last to see LS, that just seems ridiculous. I also haven't seen any serious suggestions that CR is a DD, let alone an upper level one. IMO the only reason JR would present himself as the last one to see LS if he wasn't is if someone with substantial power over him (IE an upper level DD who could harm JR if he didn't play along) told him to.

Also, quick note but from what I've heard it seems like LS was more social/into parties than JW, in which case it might not have been that unusual for them to have plans to meet up, she gets distracted/knows he doesn't want to go out and never shows up. He might have started to get concerned when he realized she didn't have her phone (or shoes?) and then gotten spooked enough to file a report/ call the spierers when he realized she wasn't in her room or with friends.

Sorry for the essay!!

 

[bessie]

Welcome to Websleuths, Holly18, and thank you for the well thought-out post.

:welcome5:
​

 

[Dymphna]

I dont really have anything new to add to this thread, but I would just like to say hello as I have been lurking since LS went missing. I am familiar with this group of people (Do not want to disclose how I am aquainted as I'm sure these people are reading), but I do agree with those who say HT is hiding something. Her behavior seems quite odd in the way she released information to the media initially and now she has silenced herself.

I am not surprised by the supposed drug use of these people either. . . it is extremely common for smallwood people, especially this group. Xanax is everywhere among students at IU.

I am familiar with Bloomington as I attend school at IU (I am going to be a junior this year) so if you have any questions please ask me.

I just want LS to be found.

:welcome5:

:welcome:

 

[Dymphna]

I've been following this case since LS first went missing and I think there are a few things people (not so much here but on other forums) are overlooking:
People seem to forget that just because we don't know that a POI has cooperated doesn't mean that they haven't cooperated with LE.
The exception to this (IMO) is JR, if he did leave bloomington as quickly as we think he did, I think chances are probably slim that he cooperated to the extent that LE would have liked. IMO him leaving so quickly (provided he actually did so) could either be because he had something directly to do with LS's disappearance, or because he knows who did and had reason to be scared enough to leave (like the DD scenario a few people have mentioned)

I think it seems like JW and CR have cooperated, at least in part. From what I've heard from articles and gossip JW stayed in bloomington until his parents and or the police told him to go home. Every theory that has been proposed in regards to his involvement has centered around jealousy and an unplanned act, IMO its unrealistic to think that JW hurt LS in a fit of rage/jealousy/whatever and just magically managed to hide her body, avoid cameras, keep up appearances the next day and even go so far as to call her parents and speak directly with LE. I think that is giving him too much credit, I don't see a freaked out 22 year old guy being that clever and clearheaded if he had just harmed his girlfriend of several years.

A question in regards to CR: is there any actual proof that he's friends with JR? I've seen people mention it but as far as I've actually seen stated in articles it seems like CR was pretty separate from LS's group of friends and JR... If CR and JR aren't close friends I can see no possible reason for JR to lie and say he was the last to see LS, that just seems ridiculous. I also haven't seen any serious suggestions that CR is a DD, let alone an upper level one. IMO the only reason JR would present himself as the last one to see LS if he wasn't is if someone with substantial power over him (IE an upper level DD who could harm JR if he didn't play along) told him to.

Also, quick note but from what I've heard it seems like LS was more social/into parties than JW, in which case it might not have been that unusual for them to have plans to meet up, she gets distracted/knows he doesn't want to go out and never shows up. He might have started to get concerned when he realized she didn't have her phone (or shoes?) and then gotten spooked enough to file a report/ call the spierers when he realized she wasn't in her room or with friends.

Sorry for the essay!!

:wagon:

 

[elmomom]

I've been following this case since LS first went missing and I think there are a few things people (not so much here but on other forums) are overlooking:
People seem to forget that just because we don't know that a POI has cooperated doesn't mean that they haven't cooperated with LE.
The exception to this (IMO) is JR, if he did leave bloomington as quickly as we think he did, I think chances are probably slim that he cooperated to the extent that LE would have liked. IMO him leaving so quickly (provided he actually did so) could either be because he had something directly to do with LS's disappearance, or because he knows who did and had reason to be scared enough to leave (like the DD scenario a few people have mentioned)

I think it seems like JW and CR have cooperated, at least in part. From what I've heard from articles and gossip JW stayed in bloomington until his parents and or the police told him to go home. Every theory that has been proposed in regards to his involvement has centered around jealousy and an unplanned act, IMO its unrealistic to think that JW hurt LS in a fit of rage/jealousy/whatever and just magically managed to hide her body, avoid cameras, keep up appearances the next day and even go so far as to call her parents and speak directly with LE. I think that is giving him too much credit, I don't see a freaked out 22 year old guy being that clever and clearheaded if he had just harmed his girlfriend of several years.

A question in regards to CR: is there any actual proof that he's friends with JR? I've seen people mention it but as far as I've actually seen stated in articles it seems like CR was pretty separate from LS's group of friends and JR... If CR and JR aren't close friends I can see no possible reason for JR to lie and say he was the last to see LS, that just seems ridiculous. I also haven't seen any serious suggestions that CR is a DD, let alone an upper level one. IMO the only reason JR would present himself as the last one to see LS if he wasn't is if someone with substantial power over him (IE an upper level DD who could harm JR if he didn't play along) told him to.

Also, quick note but from what I've heard it seems like LS was more social/into parties than JW, in which case it might not have been that unusual for them to have plans to meet up, she gets distracted/knows he doesn't want to go out and never shows up. He might have started to get concerned when he realized she didn't have her phone (or shoes?) and then gotten spooked enough to file a report/ call the spierers when he realized she wasn't in her room or with friends.

Sorry for the essay!!

:greetings:

We do know that awhile ago, CR and JR were together, hanging out and getting into trouble together. They were caught trying to break in to Smallwood with a credit card. Also, JR was the one who introduced LS and HT to CR. SO it has always been my assumption that they hung out, at least as long as they have lived at 5 North.

 

[cluciano63]

Maybe they are all cooperating and have been all along...but if that is the case, who has her mom been pleading with...

 

[elmomom]

Disclaimer and apology - sorry to keep going with the notion of stranger abduction - and - I've been wrong before.

But,

let's say that none of the college POI's are involved in Lauren's disappearance apart from their contributions of any drugs and alcohol.

Let's assume that she was taken by some weird strangler guy. His description is out there: "a white male with pale skin and dark hair in his early- to mid-20s," and presumably the location of Crystal Grubb's remains is also known. What triggered this behavior? Break up? Bereavement? Trouble with a female boss? What kind of car would he drive? Where would he live? What places would he frequent? How can we find him? If he killed Crystal, in what context would have have known/seen her?

Strangely, if you google "Bloomington" and "strangled" there are multiple accounts of people being strangled. In some cases the stranglers are known and had been taken into custody. So it's not uncommon, seemingly, although in some of the accounts the victim may have known the person.

http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=82214

Why don't I buy the fact that one of the POI's did it? I dunno. Just don't get that feeling. No great and wonderful reason, just don't happen to believe it. But again, I've been wrong before.

It's hard for me to reconcile these people with having something to do with LS missing, so I know what you are saying, it's hard for me too.

 

[holly18]

:greetings:

We do know that awhile ago, CR and JR were together, hanging out and getting into trouble together. They were caught trying to break in to Smallwood with a credit card. Also, JR was the one who introduced LS and HT to CR. SO it has always been my assumption that they hung out, at least as long as they have lived at 5 North.

Ok thank you! I totally forgot that they were breaking into SW together

 

[holly18]

Maybe they are all cooperating and have been all along...but if that is the case, who has her mom been pleading with...

since the spierers (at least appear to) support the way the BPD has been conducting the investigation its possible that LE asked them to make those statements... Maybe LE is closing in on someone who is not a member of LS's group and wants to throw that person off their trail?

It could also be that if drugs were involved everyone is reluctant to talk about it for fear of getting in trouble with LE or damaging LS's reputation. Or if there is a DD involved CS could be talking to the person (or people) who is scared/refusing to talk about it or point fingers?

 

[I Jules]

One point I'd like to make is that the first party at JR's, IMO, is extemely important to this case. Who was there? DR says that he was and that means he and JR and DB were also there. Finally, we know that LS was there. That's 4. I am suspicious that there MAY not have been any other females present. LS, from all indications, got pretty messed up at this first "party". What's that tell us? Maybe nothing, but it also may be that someone had received/brought in new drugs they shared/sold for this get together. Cocaine is desirable to some people because it's out there on the edge. You never really know what you're going to get from one week (one supply) to the next. Maybe this batch was particularly good stuff (bad!!!).

Another thing. What if xanax wasn't involved? What if the downer they were doing was an extended release benzodiazapine instead of the quick acting one zanax is. That would mean that a person would be under the influence of that benzo for a much longer time. Moreover, each of this class of drug is a bit different in its action on the body. What if she thought she was doing the old familiar zanax, but in fact was popping an extended release pill that interfered with her tendency to having irregular heart beats (Long QT) much worse than the zanax did? Or she may have done this new pill anyway, like if someone said "These are just like Zannies."

Points being that maybe at this first party she's trying to keep up with these guys, young headstrong foolish guys, and she's an experienced partier, but that night she might have been out of her league enough that she got extremely intoxicated. And yes, don't forget the alcohol on top of the other two drugs. Just my thoughts and my opinions only. But I do think this first party is extremely important to consider in light of how messed up LS apparently was later, at Sports, and later too, from what indications we have.

 

[cluciano63]

since the spierers (at least appear to) support the way the BPD has been conducting the investigation its possible that LE asked them to make those statements... Maybe LE is closing in on someone who is not a member of LS's group and wants to throw that person off their trail?

It could also be that if drugs were involved everyone is reluctant to talk about it for fear of getting in trouble with LE or damaging LS's reputation. Or if there is a DD involved CS could be talking to the person (or people) who is scared/refusing to talk about it or point fingers?

Mom's pleas have been very personal, IMO...almost begging to hear from Lauren's friends...
JMO

 

[Darcyline]

I just do not think how LE or the parents have reacted points toward random violent stranger who happened to drive by at all. Of course, they could be wrong so that may mean nothing. LE and parents have suspected friends before and then it turned out to be a random.
Statistically, the vast majority of these cases are committed by someone who knows the person though-a friend, a significant other, an acquaintance, etc. Especially since coming to Websleuths I have read about mothers killing children, fathers killing their wives and mother of their children, friends killing friends...for these reasons I cannot dismiss any of her friends or anyone she knows being involved even though I would like to. It has been difficult for me because these kids remind me so much of my students. I know that is projecting majorly, but I would prefer to think the best of them. Unfortunately, when a girl is missing when basically surrounded by friends and possible love interests you do have to consider that one or more of them may be hiding something.

One of the frustrating aspects of this case to me though is that some of these people may be lying or covering up stuff that isn't really about Lauren or her disappearance. So, some of the POIs do seem shady to me, but are they shady because they disappeared Lauren somehow or do they just seem shady because they are trying to hide the massive amount of drugs they did that night that they could be arrested for? I feel like some may not be 100% truthful just because what they were doing that night would not be activities you would want the police and/or your parents to know about or the community at large. So, maybe the feeling like they aren't telling the whole truth (for some of them) is coming from that and nothing related to Lauren at all. Unfortunate situation.

I have skipped around with theories-from JW, to JR, to CR, to some combination of the above, to an unknown DD, to a stranger abduction. Right now, I am officially not supporting any theory until something new breaks or we get some sort of scrap of new information. There is just no obvious answer glaring out and I have a sinking feeling that LE may be feeling that way too now. I sincerely hope I am wrong and LE/the parents know much, much more than we do.

 

[phantomthought]

One point I'd like to make is that the first party at JR's, IMO, is extemely important to this case. Who was there? DR says that he was and that means he and JR and DB were also there. Finally, we know that LS was there. That's 4. I am suspicious that there MAY not have been any other females present. LS, from all indications, got pretty messed up at this first "party". What's that tell us? Maybe nothing, but it also may be that someone had received/brought in new drugs they shared/sold for this get together. Cocaine is desirable to some people because it's out there on the edge. You never really know what you're going to get from one week (one supply) to the next. Maybe this batch was particularly good stuff (bad!!!).

Another thing. What if xanax wasn't involved? What if the downer they were doing was an extended release benzodiazapine instead of the quick acting one zanax is. That would mean that a person would be under the influence of that benzo for a much longer time. Moreover, each of this class of drug is a bit different in its action on the body. What if she thought she was doing the old familiar zanax, but in fact was popping an extended release pill that interfered with her tendency to having irregular heart beats (Long QT) much worse than the zanax did? Or she may have done this new pill anyway, like if someone said "These are just like Zannies."

Points being that maybe at this first party she's trying to keep up with these guys, young headstrong foolish guys, and she's an experienced partier, but that night she might have been out of her league enough that she got extremely intoxicated. And yes, don't forget the alcohol on top of the other two drugs. Just my thoughts and my opinions only. But I do think this first party is extremely important to consider in light of how messed up LS apparently was later, at Sports, and later too, from what indications we have.

I always thought that could have been the reason for the 4:15 A.M. phone call to DR.Other than the 3 POI and LS he was the only other one that knew what went on at the first party.

 

[phantomthought]

I've been following this case since LS first went missing and I think there are a few things people (not so much here but on other forums) are overlooking:
People seem to forget that just because we don't know that a POI has cooperated doesn't mean that they haven't cooperated with LE.
The exception to this (IMO) is JR, if he did leave bloomington as quickly as we think he did, I think chances are probably slim that he cooperated to the extent that LE would have liked. IMO him leaving so quickly (provided he actually did so) could either be because he had something directly to do with LS's disappearance, or because he knows who did and had reason to be scared enough to leave (like the DD scenario a few people have mentioned)

I think it seems like JW and CR have cooperated, at least in part. From what I've heard from articles and gossip JW stayed in bloomington until his parents and or the police told him to go home. Every theory that has been proposed in regards to his involvement has centered around jealousy and an unplanned act, IMO its unrealistic to think that JW hurt LS in a fit of rage/jealousy/whatever and just magically managed to hide her body, avoid cameras, keep up appearances the next day and even go so far as to call her parents and speak directly with LE. I think that is giving him too much credit, I don't see a freaked out 22 year old guy being that clever and clearheaded if he had just harmed his girlfriend of several years.

A question in regards to CR: is there any actual proof that he's friends with JR? I've seen people mention it but as far as I've actually seen stated in articles it seems like CR was pretty separate from LS's group of friends and JR... If CR and JR aren't close friends I can see no possible reason for JR to lie and say he was the last to see LS, that just seems ridiculous. I also haven't seen any serious suggestions that CR is a DD, let alone an upper level one. IMO the only reason JR would present himself as the last one to see LS if he wasn't is if someone with substantial power over him (IE an upper level DD who could harm JR if he didn't play along) told him to.

Also, quick note but from what I've heard it seems like LS was more social/into parties than JW, in which case it might not have been that unusual for them to have plans to meet up, she gets distracted/knows he doesn't want to go out and never shows up. He might have started to get concerned when he realized she didn't have her phone (or shoes?) and then gotten spooked enough to file a report/ call the spierers when he realized she wasn't in her room or with friends.

Sorry for the essay!!

As far as their plans to meet up that is another part of HT timeline that seams so strange to me.From what we are told they were suppose to get together after the basketball game.Yet LS is hanging at smallwood till 12:30 when the game is ending.That is the time they should be getting together yet instead she leaves to go to JR's.Then you have on top of that HT saying LS went to JR's to watch the game and from every source on this site we know the game was over by then.I think your reasoning would fit.LS decided she wanted to go out and knew JW would not be up for that.

 

[PaulR]

Mom's pleas have been very personal, IMO...almost begging to hear from Lauren's friends...
JMO

Which would make a (guilty) stranger feel cocky enough to try and discard evidence, etc. while there was no spotlight on them.

 

[bluebirdii]

OK don't you all throw something at me at once, look at the boys eyes. There are 2 there that have that hollow, fishes have more personality in their eyes than those 2 do.

JW has never copped to any more info on who hit him, that I know of, to me seems like a lie right there, but I have seen it happen before, but not in a missing person case. JMO

I don't like to judge person without knowing them but when I saw pictures of JR and CR - I just really don't trust those two faces. I might be wrong but that is the impression I get..

 

[RavenTrue]

Thanks to A Watson for the input. IMHO this case will be solved. I understand that I go with the likely thought, and I DO. CR, or both will be proven guilty, Cannot come fast enough for me, Why do I say this? Wow, was a drunken ahole, got punched back,,,then remember NOTHING, Uh huh. Look to that apt, and the FBI will find the answers. Then one, or other will rat out. Just sayin' And I remain steadfast on this.

 

[webrocket]

I said some of this umpteen threads ago but since it was so long ago I thought I'd chime in again.

I for one never thought the other students were involved. it i difficult but not impossible for someone to pull off a perfect crime. none of these students had any real run ins with the law. Personally I don't consider public intoxication, brawling and trespass to be serious run ins. they are not career criminals.

any crime here had a very short window of opportunity. to think that some wasted college kids could pull off a crime at that hour of the morning and leave NO trace whatsover is giving them far too much credit. I think she met her demise at the hands of a stranger with a vehicle.

unfortunately, LE went after the easy targets and in the process alienated them to the point they all (or nearly all) got lawyers. I don't blame them for hiring lawyers. I'd be furious if LE ever threw my name about in connection with a probable crime so I would not help them at all. having ruined their chances at real cooperation from the students, LE is left with a mess they created by having lost weeks trying to pursue other avenues.

 

[Barry]

My current thinking is, that whomever it was that night, it was someone who was not
messed up, and who was thinking clearly. Either one of the POI individuals that had not partied that night, or a stranger.

 

[Pedrosmom]

Agreed. Who is going to keep paying a pricey lawyer if he in fact didn't see her that night?

a boyfriend is a usual suspect in any missing persons case and statistics show they are the likely perp.