IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #24

[PlainJaneDoe]

I'm with you, invisible. I don't think it's been widely reported that she was foaming at the mouth, and I haven't been able to find anything in the MSM to suggest she was. I would think foaming at the mouth would draw a lot of attention from people.

Hey, you're verified!

You know, I have been puzzled by this bit about foaming at the mouth. I've never asked because I felt kind of lame saying, "I study cocaine but never heard of this." But really, is this well-known thing?

 

[mamamia54]

Unless one of them had sex with her - I would think that would raise suspicion or at least eyebrows if she was found dead on the sidewalk?

Yeah, that would definately present a huge red flag. Could mutual consent enter in? I mean at least on one end.

 

[bloom54]

Hey, you're verified!

You know, I have been puzzled by this bit about foaming at the mouth. I've never asked because I felt kind of lame saying, "I study cocaine but never heard of this." But really, is this well-known thing?

I always took the "foaming at the mouth" report (which really only came, I believe from one source)... as questionable and perhaps simply meaning "she was high as a kite"... slurring words, slobbering a bit perhaps? I have absolutely no personal experience with anything more incapacitating than alcohol and pot, so I just can't imagine being that far gone... and the fact that she and CR then made it back to SW on their own two feet indicates to me that she wasn't THAT far gone at that point...

 

[Skigirl]

Hey, you're verified!

You know, I have been puzzled by this bit about foaming at the mouth. I've never asked because I felt kind of lame saying, "I study cocaine but never heard of this." But really, is this well-known thing?

I don't think one has to be an expert in substance abuse -- just have spent a lot of time around college campuses -- to think seeing someone foaming at the mouth would be a once-in-a-lifetime oddity that people would be talking about for years -- that's why whenever anyone sees me around chocolate, it starts tongues wagging :crazy:

 

[Skigirl]

Yeah, that would definately present a huge red flag. Could mutual consent enter in? I mean at least on one end.

Agreed... in that guy's shoes, he could say, 'eh, so what, I had sex with her - I have sex with lots of girls. It makes me not much of a gentleman, but it doesn't make me a murderer."

I'm just thinking that if I were a guy, and I had sex with a girl who subsequently died from an overdose, I'd be in a serious panic, even if it wasn't quite rational.

 

[imkeylime]

Hey, you're verified!

You know, I have been puzzled by this bit about foaming at the mouth. I've never asked because I felt kind of lame saying, "I study cocaine but never heard of this." But really, is this well-known thing?

I feel this way, too. Maybe it's naive (I can be), but I wondered if it was more like she was in really serious party mode or just saying things she shouldn't in a slurring manner, like bloom suggests (and notes that it's only from one source) ...

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

I always took the "foaming at the mouth" report (which really only came, I believe from one source)... as questionable and perhaps simply meaning "she was high as a kite"... slurring words, slobbering a bit perhaps? I have absolutely no personal experience with anything more incapacitating than alcohol and pot, so I just can't imagine being that far gone... and the fact that she and CR then made it back to SW on their own two feet indicates to me that she wasn't THAT far gone at that point...

Gotcha...thanks. Sometimes I take things too literally. :crazy:

 

[bloom54]

The only time I've actually seen someone foaming at the mouth was when my son had his first seizure... very scary...

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

The only time I've actually seen someone foaming at the mouth was when my son had his first seizure... very scary...

Yes yes yes! My cousin had a series of GM seizures when she was a kid and that's when I saw this. And heck yes they are very scary. I hope your son is ok.

 

[bloom54]

he's fine.. this was about 20 years ago when he was about 5.. and it was the first seizure I'd ever seen... really thought he was dying... he's only had one other one.. and I didn't witness that one! my daughter also has them - but she doesn't get foamy...

 

[bessie]

Agreed... in that guy's shoes, he could say, 'eh, so what, I had sex with her - I have sex with lots of girls. It makes me not much of a gentleman, but it doesn't make me a murderer."

I'm just thinking that if I were a guy, and I had sex with a girl who subsequently died from an overdose, I'd be in a serious panic, even if it wasn't quite rational.

I suggested this once, and I think I got flamed. :loser: Sure a guy would be in a panic if, after engaging in sexual activity with a young woman, she suddenly OD's, possibly even moreso if he had used coke. His judgment would be affected by the drugs and the situation, and he might well resort to drastic action, just like others have done in the past. The young man's personality and the stakes at hand would be factors in determining the likelihood of this notion being true, but it's a possibility just the same, and could even involve more than one guy. If true, Lauren's body bears the DNA of the only one(s) who knows where it rests. Hence, the complete silence because to offer even an anonymous tip could prove fatal.

 

[jacy]

I suggested this once, and I think I got flamed. :loser: Sure a guy would be in a panic if, after engaging in sexual activity with a young woman, she suddenly OD's, possibly even moreso if he had used coke. His judgment would be affected by the drugs and the situation, and he might well resort to drastic action, just like others have done in the past. The young man's personality and the stakes at hand would be factors in determining the likelihood of this notion being true, but it's a possibility just the same, and could even involve more than one guy. If true, Lauren's body bears the DNA of the only one(s) who knows where it rests. Hence, the complete silence because to offer even an anonymous tip could prove fatal.

In the short time I've been reading this heartbreaking story, this has been the thought that plagues my mind. It does seem, to me, to answer the silence. I hadn't seen this theory discussed much, but figured I'd missed some pages. I now daily check for news on Lauren because I so want some type of resolve for her family.

 

[Gabby66]

Regarding the sex theory....

Do you all think this could have happened b/w JR and LS? I just can't quite see that one. I mean, she hadn't been out with JR all evening. It was CR. So she has a kind of /sort of/maybe broken up boyfriend, then goes to party with a group of guys during the game (and the only girl, mind you), then goes out with CR, then puts him to bed, is turned down by MB from partying, then goes to have sex with JR? That would give me a who new impression of LS. I do not want to sound victim blaming, but there really area LOTS of girls like that, especially when they're on the "outs" with their BF. I just didn't want to think of her in that light....

So, that leads me back to CR. This would be a great "memory loss" excuse. So let's say she consoles him (which I've always thought she likely did, since he was hit in the head). It has never sat well with me that she just put him to bed, moved on to party with the room mate, then moved on to party with the next dude. So she consoles CR a little too much, has sex, and then ODs or dies from heart failure. Would MB and JR really accept the risk/lie for him? I don't care how good of friends you are, I just can't understand that. OK MAYBE his room mate, but JR too?

 

[Darcyline]

Regarding the sex theory....

Do you all think this could have happened b/w JR and LS? I just can't quite see that one. I mean, she hadn't been out with JR all evening. It was CR. So she has a kind of /sort of/maybe broken up boyfriend, then goes to party with a group of guys during the game (and the only girl, mind you), then goes out with CR, then puts him to bed, is turned down by MB from partying, then goes to have sex with JR? That would give me a who new impression of LS. I do not want to sound victim blaming, but there really area LOTS of girls like that, especially when they're on the "outs" with their BF. I just didn't want to think of her in that light....
?

It is my impression that by the time they would be having sex she would probably be unconscious or close to it. So, she didn't initially go to JR's wanting to have sex. I think she went there for other reasons and the sex may have been a consequence of those reasons.

 

[Tr.]

I am NOT implying antisemitism here. What I AM implying is that there is likely, and very SADLY, a Jewish connection, between the victim, the perpetrators, the bystanders and the accessories.

Hmm.. I wonder if rather than a connection (such as religion) between the vic and perp/s a disconnect isn't more likely..as in ethnicity?

 

[Tr.]

It is my impression that by the time they would be having sex she would probably be unconscious or close to it. So, she didn't initially go to JR's wanting to have sex. I think she went there for other reasons and the sex may have been a consequence of those reasons.

I don't believe LS had plans for sex at all that night and that is why she was with CR.
She planned on staying in at SW (per HT), was not with her boyfriend, decided last minute to party some and get back home.
Judging by her appearance in the security still, the quick outfit, pale skin tone, need for a jacket on warm night..makes me think she may have started her period. Plus it was near the beginning of the month but who knows?
That may sound ridiculous to some but I'll bet she had absolutely no plans for sex with anyone that night.

 

[Tr.]

I wonder how come BW is "100% certain" that someone she knows...knows what happened to LS.
Does this revelation have anything to do with why she is supposedly not rooming with HT any more?
Is she speaking intuitively or hearing rumors or what ?

I wonder how come HT is "absolutely certain" that a stranger is involved.
Is this just to say she's confident that no one she knows was involved or does she imply knowledge of the whereabouts of all persons known to herself and LS at the time of the disappearance?
Maybe she just can't fathom the idea of anyone she knows being involved in such a thing or...maybe she can imagine it but doesn't want to go there.

It seems that HT and BW are in a sense colliding on opinion in the matter.

 

[bloom54]

It seems that HT and BW are in a sense colliding on opinion in the matter.

I mentioned this very thing earlier.... especially when there was such a warm reunion between BW and CS/RS..... we've not heard of any such reunions between HT and them! That gives me pause....

 

[imkeylime]

Regarding the sex theory....

Do you all think this could have happened b/w JR and LS? I just can't quite see that one. I mean, she hadn't been out with JR all evening. It was CR. So she has a kind of /sort of/maybe broken up boyfriend, then goes to party with a group of guys during the game (and the only girl, mind you), then goes out with CR, then puts him to bed, is turned down by MB from partying, then goes to have sex with JR? That would give me a who new impression of LS. I do not want to sound victim blaming, but there really area LOTS of girls like that, especially when they're on the "outs" with their BF. I just didn't want to think of her in that light....

So, that leads me back to CR. This would be a great "memory loss" excuse. So let's say she consoles him (which I've always thought she likely did, since he was hit in the head). It has never sat well with me that she just put him to bed, moved on to party with the room mate, then moved on to party with the next dude. So she consoles CR a little too much, has sex, and then ODs or dies from heart failure. Would MB and JR really accept the risk/lie for him? I don't care how good of friends you are, I just can't understand that. OK MAYBE his room mate, but JR too?

I've read conflicting reports about how long LS was at CR/MB's, with one stating near an hour. That's a long time to help MB with CR, IMO. OTOH, if both LS and CR were in bad shape, IDK if anything could have happened. And there's the fact that MB was there ... kind of adds an ick factor. Unless MB was involved. In terms of LS ... maybe she was in no condition to say "no."

I've been thinking about the fight at SW. I wonder why LS left with CR ... because she was compassionate? Or because she thought she was the reason for the fight, even if she wasn't? Say it was about drugs or something that happened at Indy 500, would she have know that from what was said? Or might she thought CR was being targeted for being with her?

I've wondered if JR could be covering for someone by saying he saw LS leave his place ... and the overall response was he'd have to be really stupid to do that. I agree ... but maybe he blurts things out before thinking about the consequences (i.e., "I talk to them privately"). MB sounds like he's close to CR. He was allegedly sober, though, which should have made him the clearer thinker.

In terms of friendship, JR might be to DB what MB is to CR. Do we know if MB knew JR's roommate, DB? I swear I saw a list of FB friends or something for DB that had MB on it. Not that would be unusual, even ...

 

[Angelonline]

I've read conflicting reports about how long LS was at CR/MB's, with one stating near an hour. That's a long time to help MB with CR, IMO. OTOH, if both LS and CR were in bad shape, IDK if anything could have happened. And there's the fact that MB was there ... kind of adds an ick factor. Unless MB was involved. In terms of LS ... maybe she was in no condition to say "no."

This is an interesting theory and got me to thinking, since we have explored every other possible scenario, due to the lack of facts....

What if Lauren was in no shape to say "no".. And JR was there all along or came by and all three guys "had there way with her" so to speak. I have heard of this happening with an intoxicated girl at frat party and even with a girl in a group of jocks at a party, when I was in high school.. Often the girls are too embarassed or can't remember enough to report this type of thing, so the guys who are also usually drunk/high feel empowered or safe in "risking it". But what if in this case LS died either from something she had taken, alcohol posioning, her heart condition, or even because one of them got to rough with her... Then they came up with their story together: one of them, perhaps the best at lying agreed to be the last to see her and the one who is the worst at lying decided to just go with memory loss... and they have all stuck to the story because all of them would be implicated if she were found....

Now all of this is a whole lot of supposition, what ifs... etc. Just another thought to add to the many others we have talked about.