IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #24

[bx2]

I'm not there, of course, but I've never quite bought this claim (that he couldn't have seen the corner). The pictures I've seen make it look like you could easily see the corner. And if it were obviously untrue, why would the claim have been made? Perhaps it was a very stupid claim. But then why would it not have been more explicitly challenged?

I find it very unlikely, but not impossible that he can reliably make this claim. It's the length of a football field in the dark.

 

[imkeylime]

I think a lot has to go right in someone's favor for the driving away with her theory to work. Even if its out of sight, there would still be a body in your vehicle for an extended amount of time leaving possible trace evidence. If you had an extended drive home, it is light outside when you got there making getting rid of something a bit trickier. You were surely seen the previous night in Bloomington, did you make plans with anyone or talk about meeting up the next day that would cause further suspicion on your absence after a girl is reported missing? Your phone is going to give away the timeline you left. Is your sobriety level going to increase the likelihood that you'll be pulled over? Do you need to stop for gas, more witness and camera possibilities. Oh and your story of when and why you left needs to match up across all counts.

Possible sure, but if that person is known to LE, it seems easier than not to slip up.

I agree. But whenever Michigan is alluded to ... I get ideas, probably because I used to live there. IMO, people often draw from what's familiar ... the past informs our present. So it's possible that a person might dispose of a body in a place that feels familiar vs. actually is. Also IMO, it's not just a person's sobriety level, but their case of nerves. I just don't see the average college student as able to pull an elaborate scenario off.

OTOH, someone's been lucky so far. I myself tend to be more intuitive than analytical (though I'm working on it). Coming from that perspective, a POI with a body might exit the city for a more rural area with woods, lakes, that sort of thing, but something close by.

 

[elmorejames]

One thing that bothers me alot. Is that Salzmann claims CR is not the last person to see LS. Three or four other individuals saw her after CR. How does he know this? <modsnip> It just seems all to coincidental.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...ion-has-no-memory-their-last-moments-together

They should be bringing all POI's in for re-questioning at least file charges for obstruction of justice. If Barry Bonds has to take the stand for steroids, these kids should have to talk... Plain and simple

 

[TobyWong*]

IMO, it would take a truly cool-headed individual to do this, especially if it was the body of a friend, not someone a perp murdered (in my scenario, anyhow).

I've recently thought a POI might have disposed of LS in an area that resembled an area that was familiar yet not close to home, i.e., in a lake near Martinsville if he was from an area with lakes, etc. This makes sense to me intuitively. But ...

I initially believed LS would be found in the landfill ... that a POI put her in a dumpster and got lucky. I still wonder why dogs supposedly hit on a dumpster. I've also wondered if a POI started to and then got scared, thus leaving a scent. There was a case in Traverse City, MI, near the time of LS', where a young woman's body was moved from one place to another. But Traverse City isn't downtown Bloomington. But ...

If an out of towner did drive LS from one state to another ... and that person was DB, I have another thought. His family's real estate company buys up foreclosing apartment/condo complexes, I believe. Those also have dumpsters ... again, going with what's familiar. Who would think to look for LS in a MI landfill?

Do I believe this happened? No ... but a truly cool-headed individual might be able to pull something like this off. Personally, I believe she's closer. But ...

It's hard for me to think of driving a distance w/ a body. My mind would be thinking of decomp. I can see where a guy might think he knows the best spot and it could b near his home but i see guys like this as having to have a buddy for evrything. Especially if they're partying and somebody od's. I just can't see the out of town guest to saying "let me take care of this" More like "she's your friend you figure something out " That's why I think they went somewhere within a half hour, so that jr could get back in the area and the out of towner could get outta dodge. imo
Also, I don't think the out of towner would want Laurens body showing up in his state. jmo

 

[Skigirl]

One thing that bothers me alot. Is that Salzmann claims CR is not the last person to see LS. Three or four other individuals saw her after CR. <modsnip> It just seems all to coincidental.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...ion-has-no-memory-their-last-moments-together

Well, if the party line is correct, it would have been 3-4 other people after CR, right? MB, JR, JR's guest, and the random abductor.

 

[Skigirl]

It's hard for me to think of driving a distance w/ a body. My mind would be thinking of decomp. I can see where a guy might think he knows the best spot and it could b near his home but i see guys like this as having to have a buddy for evrything. Especially if they're partying and somebody od's. I just can't see the out of town guest to saying "let me take care of this" More like "she's your friend you figure something out " That's why I think they went somewhere within a half hour, so that jr could get back in the area and the out of towner could get outta dodge. imo
Also, I don't think the out of towner would want Laurens body showing up in his state. jmo

I agree that if I were visiting from another state, and my friends were all, "yo, here's a dead girl, would you please take her body and dump it near where you live?" I'd be all, "no thanks".

Also, assuming, I know it's a big assumption, but, assuming these are relatively normal people who may be spoiled and selfish and who made a very, very, very bad decision, but are not psychopathic, it does seem to me to be a little far-fetched that they'd have had the nerves of steel required to take her any distance.

I was nearly caught snooping (for a good reason :innocent once and I swear, my heart felt like it was going to pound right out of my chest. I can't imagine what I'd feel like passing a police car with a dead body in my trunk. I'm sure some people are better criminals than I am, but still.

 

[cluciano63]

If this was simply a case of making a "bad decision", they could have come forward long ago, admitted to it, and received (probably) fairly minimal charges. At this point, charges are going to be more severe, which won't help L's parents in getting an answer. If Lauren did indeed die of natural causes (even if caused by unnatural substances) it is probably too late to tell. Now, they could be facing murder charges, as well as obstruction, lying to LE, etc...(assuming the person(s) have already been interviewed.) I don't see what kind of incentive there is to make anyone "crack." Clearly the one being used by L's parents isn't working, to date.

I worry that the culprit(s) know full well Lauren is unlikely to ever be found, thus there being no reason to come forward. Some people can live with a guilty conscious quite well.

 

[Jupiter812]

I'm not there, of course, but I've never quite bought this claim (that he couldn't have seen the corner). The pictures I've seen make it look like you could easily see the corner. And if it were obviously untrue, why would the claim have been made? Perhaps it was a very stupid claim. But then why would it not have been more explicitly challenged?

Of course he saw her round the corner--privately.

 

[plaidmom]

I've wondered if when LE checked 5 North with the dog, if they also brought in a forensic team to do any testing on things, and if they didn't why not. That would have been a perfect time.

Ya know....that's one big thing that bothers me about this case. No physical evidence of foul play at all (or at least none that has been released).

Perhaps some of the old-timers will chime in and tell me that this is the norm. But for now I am perplexed?

Does anyone have the link to the PC where LE claims to suspect foul play? Because if IIRC, that did happen. And yet they never gave a reason (that I can recall) to suspect such.

Is it the phone being left behind? The purse/wallet/wristlet? Surely not the shoes? People lose shoes all of the time.

Because other than those things, left behind like Goldilocks breadcrumbs, we have....nothing.

No blood (even though she hit her head at least once, possibly twice). No vomit (despite the alleged "partying"). No hanks or even wisps of hair. No fingernails. No scraps or pieces of clothing. No scent for the dogs. Nothing.

No witnesses apparently either, other than the videos. No one saw or heard anything out of the ordinary that night. Other than the bar manager and the homeless man who heard the scream...and both have been discounted/discredited by LE.

The ONLY account of violence we have for that night is the "altercation" at Smallwood. And that had "nothing to do with our missing woman" according to LE.

It's as if she just went *poof*.

 

[imkeylime]

It's hard for me to think of driving a distance w/ a body. My mind would be thinking of decomp. I can see where a guy might think he knows the best spot and it could b near his home but i see guys like this as having to have a buddy for evrything. Especially if they're partying and somebody od's. I just can't see the out of town guest to saying "let me take care of this" More like "she's your friend you figure something out " That's why I think they went somewhere within a half hour, so that jr could get back in the area and the out of towner could get outta dodge. imo
Also, I don't think the out of towner would want Laurens body showing up in his state. jmo

Again, I agree ... realistically, I can't see a guy doing it, either. Or be willing to, as you said. Actually, the only way I could see it happening is if the out-of-towner was responsible for what happened. In that case, it might BE his problem. But why then would the others cover for him?

Also, would JR be able to pass a polygraph in that event? I really don't get that, unless he had an idea of what the questions would be going in. IDK ... I'm tired, sadly.

 

[imkeylime]

Of course he saw her round the corner--privately.

Oh, Jupiter! That's the best one I've heard in a long time. Actually, maybe that's the answer to him passing the polygraph ...

 

[Jupiter812]

One thing that bothers me alot. Is that Salzmann claims CR is not the last person to see LS. Three or four other individuals saw her after CR. How does he know this? <modsnip> It just seems all to coincidental.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...ion-has-no-memory-their-last-moments-together

They should be bringing all POI's in for re-questioning at least file charges for obstruction of justice. If Barry Bonds has to take the stand for steroids, these kids should have to talk... Plain and simple

It's interesting that some articles state she was seen by "at least two" which could mean "three or four" but there's such a big difference between the two phrases.

 

[Jupiter812]

snipped

I worry that the culprit(s) know full well Lauren is unlikely to ever be found, thus there being no reason to come forward.

This is a good point. It at least explains their ability to return to life in Bloomington, besides of course their attorneys' advice.

 

[bloom54]

There's been a lot of discussion about how these guys wouldn't have been able to pull themselves together enough to dispose of a friend....

I'd like to suggest that LS wasn't really a friend, but an acquaintance -- and IMHO that makes a difference... I don't see this relationship as one in which anyone felt protective of her... (in which case they would have done the RIGHT thing and taken her to the ER)...

also, I know that when I'm under pressure, I pull together pretty well to get the job done... now, admittedly, I've never had to hide a body... but I think if I were in that position, and it was NOT someone I cared about, I'd be able to do what I needed to do to cover my *advertiser censored*...... especially if I considered the alternative.... so I really don't find it hard to believe that one of two of these guys were able to transport her away from the scene and hide her well enough....

re the questions about the dogs hitting on the dumpster.... dogs could have hit on a smell of her from something she handled during the party... easily explained...

 

[Jupiter812]

There's been a lot of discussion about how these guys wouldn't have been able to pull themselves together enough to dispose of a friend....

I'd like to suggest that LS wasn't really a friend, but an acquaintance -- and IMHO that makes a difference... I don't see this relationship as one in which anyone felt protective of her... (in which case they would have done the RIGHT thing and taken her to the ER)...

also, I know that when I'm under pressure, I pull together pretty well to get the job done... now, admittedly, I've never had to hide a body... but I think if I were in that position, and it was NOT someone I cared about, I'd be able to do what I needed to do to cover my *advertiser censored*...... especially if I considered the alternative.... so I really don't find it hard to believe that one of two of these guys were able to transport her away from the scene and hide her well enough....

re the questions about the dogs hitting on the dumpster.... dogs could have hit on a smell of her from something she handled during the party... easily explained...

Interesting about the friend vs acquaintance. I would think that JR considers her a friend tho. It may be because HT said they were at his place a lot last year, when in fact he was gone half the year, or however long he was in Spain.

 

[bloom54]

If they were there to party last year, that wouldn't necessarily imply friendship... IMO...

 

[Darcyline]

I remember getting my head chewed off for thinking that all of these men were not necessarily her friends, but I still stand by that. Friend to me means something more than someone you party with especially in college. I had tons of people I hung around with on a regular basis-very few of them I would consider to be my actual friends. It is hard to determine just how close they all were and friend vs convenient person to hang around with, but what we do know doesn't really clarify that for me.

 

[Missing Budweiser]

Has anyone here spoken with anyone fron IU that is "close" to the investigation. When I say "close" I mean personally knows someone involved. If so, what do they believe happened?

 

[Darcyline]

Has anyone here spoken with anyone fron IU that is "close" to the investigation. When I say "close" I mean personally knows someone involved. If so, what do they believe happened?

Not sure if we have confirmed people who are actually working the case, but I don't think her parents believe stranger abduction and some locals have said that most "rumor" or talk around the town pretty much goes with the OD theory. HT believes stranger abduction. Of course, the first part comes from quotes from the parents that I believe do not indicate they think everything was peachy until a random stranger grabbed her at 430 and the second part is...well, talk, rumor, and what people believe can be 100% false.

I would give a whole lot to know what LE personally thinks happened or a private detective if one exists.

 

[cluciano63]

I am a terrible cynic, with WS only having made me more so, but I wonder if a certain number of young women would have to disappear before a college town like Bloomington would allow/encourage LE and the media to issue warnings, have town hall meetings, etc. telling the public that a random killer/abductor is on the loose.

LE NOT giving a lot of warnings, etc. does not make me believe 100% that they don't think this could be a stranger abduction, as I doubt they would create a panic over one missing person unless they were positive that was the case, and maybe not even then. It's not good business.