IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #25

[AnalyticalExaminer]

But what confirmation do you have that xanax was used?

I use sleeping tablets and anti-anxiety medication - not too long ago I'd be having a few drinks and then take them. I've never had complete memory loss, you don't just black out and forget everything. Somewhere, something must trigger.

I believe that it was used, based on statements in other fora by more than one person that I believe to be close to the parties. Have you ever eaten "bars" of xanax (ie abused the drug)? It's well-established that this can lead to memory loss.

 

[bluebirdii]

I know there is a lot of speculation that drugs etc was involved but the point I'm trying to make is that CR claiming memory loss could just be a convenient excuse. Not all people experience memory loss. I just feel that it's an easy excuse - perhaps there is parts of the night he can't remember but I'm not so sure. JMO

 

[bluebirdii]

I have indeed abused benzodiazepine before - I've once actually taken 8 x 10mg Stilnox (Zolpidem) sleeping tablets. I remember everything, I just don't remember going to sleep - go figure! I was young and stupid and just couldn't fall asleep.

Just added drug name as in SA some of the brand names are different.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I have indeed abused benzodiazepine before - I've once actually taken 8 x 10mg Stilnox (Zolpidem) sleeping tablets. I remember everything, I just don't remember going to sleep - go figure! I was young and stupid and just couldn't fall asleep.

Just added drug name as in SA some of the brand names are different.

Others' experience is quite different: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2007-03-27/hundreds-report-memory-loss-from-sleeping-pill/2227344. This is the problem with generalizing from one's own, individual perspective.

 

[bluebirdii]

Others' experience is quite different: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2007-03-27/hundreds-report-memory-loss-from-sleeping-pill/2227344. This is the problem with generalizing from one's own, individual perspective.

I completely agree. Which is why I'm saying - he COULD be untruthful - how would we know? I know of a few people - weird how us OCD and anxiety people find each other - that also haven't reported memory loss but others have. People react different to different medications. I take anti-anxiety meds through the day (3 x at least) and also know of a few others who do as well, after a while your body builds up against it a little, even if your taking a drink/s with it - if taking into consideration the alleged drug habits of these students I'm sure they can take quite a bit of these drugs & booze before memory leaves the premises.

JMO of course....

 

[imkeylime]

Very good article.

Personally I don't buy this "memory loss" bull. I ride horses, I fall off / get thrown off on quite a regular basis, well not so often now, but I'm riding young thoroughbreds, some of them are a bit temperamental and very excited , I've fallen head first to the ground from a gallop, yes, I do wear safety helmets, but still. I don't see how you can just suddenly develop full memory loss. I was also in a car accident where the car rolled about 4/5 times and I was thrown out the back window - no memory loss there either - even though my head was bleeding, etc - that accident was about 15 years ago, I remember it like yesterday. And I remember every fall I've had off every horse I've ever ridden, I'm a little disorientated after a fall but that's it. He must've been punched in the face with a brick to not remember something.:banghead:

IMO, if CR has memory loss (can't say one way or another, but I feel it's exaggerated), it's more from alcohol/drugs than being hit at SW. But ... there was a neurosurgeon who noted that alcohol can make a head injury worse as well.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/07/17/news.qp-5830818.sto

I suspect CR remembers more than he/his attorney lets on. His attorney may be using the memory loss to help avoid a polygraph. I don't remember (no pun intended) any confirmation that CR has taken one. Given DNA, yes; taken a polygraph, no. Maybe I'm wrong. But at this point, he may prefer not to remember ...

PS: bluebirdii, I also used to ride horses (my cousin was a TB trainer). I miss those days. I never had memory loss from a fall, either, though I did have a a bit (short-term) after lowering the tailgate of my husband's van on my forehead. That was unfortunate, LOL.

 

[WhitneyLea]

Regarding the memory loss ... here's my theory. I agree with a lot of you who don't believe the punch had much to do with it. In my experience, alcohol alone (regardless of any other substances thrown in the mix) can cause one to have quite a "fuzzy" memory in the morning. For example, in my younger days when I went out to "party" (in this case, meaning just alcohol, no drugs involved) in Bloomington, there were times when I could remember only bits and pieces of the night before. Some things I remembered clearly, some vaguely, some not at all, some in the wrong order or the wrong time frame.

So, what if CR remembers "bits" of the night LS went missing, but because of the alcohol (and whatever else), just can't put together a full beginning-to-end narrative? And for this reason, his lawyer doesn't want him to share any pieces he might remember because then he would be grilled about it and probably couldn't answer questions clearly, or even accurately? Maybe his lawyer's advice in this case (or his own decision) is to just say nothing at all. My fear is that any pieces he might remember, but isn't sharing, could be really helpful.

 

[imkeylime]

Regarding the memory loss ... here's my theory. I agree with a lot of you who don't believe the punch had much to do with it. In my experience, alcohol alone (regardless of any other substances thrown in the mix) can cause one to have quite a "fuzzy" memory in the morning. For example, in my younger days when I went out to "party" (in this case, meaning just alcohol, no drugs involved) in Bloomington, there were times when I could remember only bits and pieces of the night before. Some things I remembered clearly, some vaguely, some not at all, some in the wrong order or the wrong time frame.

So, what if CR remembers "bits" of the night LS went missing, but because of the alcohol (and whatever else), just can't put together a full beginning-to-end narrative? And for this reason, his lawyer doesn't want him to share any pieces he might remember because then he would be grilled about it and probably couldn't answer questions clearly, or even accurately? Maybe his lawyer's advice in this case (or his own decision) is to just say nothing at all. My fear is that any pieces he might remember, but isn't sharing, could be really helpful.

Yes, alcohol could be enough. And MB did state in one interview that CR crashed because of drinking, I believe, whereas his attorney was the one who mentioned the hit at SW. So there's that.

As you said, he may not be able to provide a clear, cohesive narrative, yet he might recollect something, anything, that happened earlier in the evening if not later in the alley. That said, I do see why his attorney might not want him to be polygraphed or grilled. He's doing his job, which is to protect CR vs. find LS, as horrible as that sounds. Unless finding LS would get CR off the hook and protect him across the board. That's the quandary ...

 

[Jupiter812]

I do think it's important to note that this is a commentary piece written by someone who appears to be a student but does not otherwise write for IDS (someone correct me if I'm wrong). While the piece may have been written with the knowledge/cooperation of the family, who may have even placed it there for a purpose, there's also a possibility that the author might be acting on her own and have misunderstood the focus of (or even misquoted) the comments, or placed them out of context.

She is a solid writer for the IDS who as authored many articles. All-student newspaper.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

She is a solid writer for the IDS who as authored many articles. All-student newspaper.

As I see - I had misspelled her name in their search function, I think. So I would assume the reporting in the article is correct. It's nevertheless denominated "Commentary."

 

[Jupiter812]

The most significant piece of info from this video is LE received over 2,000 tips about this case and 150 tips came in since students returned for Fall semester. I would think the quality of these tips would be pretty good, yes? Friends talking more freely perhaps or something suddenly remembered, which can happen when one is removed from the drama.

http://www.wthr.com/story/15519915/thousands-expected-at-shine-4-lauren-thursday

 

[LongTallTexan]

2:51:

I know many have discounted the 'activity' as verbalized by LE as just a choice of verb or that it doen't mean anything (very possible), but that video holds some answers for me...but here's why. We all have debated over every scenario, what fact vs. rumor vs. perception vs. misreadings and/or straight out confusion....but at the end of the day, I can't 'believe' anything for certain or 'discount' anything for certain...we just don't know. BUT, what we do know if that at that last sighting, Lauren (presumably alive) was truly last 'seen'...meaning by camera. In the same general vicinity, she lost her keys/wallet thingy, and LE (instead of stating she is seen "making their way" and referencing CR), instead they choose to use different terminology and do NOT identify CR this time. Furthermore, almost every statement (regardless of source) that tell the story after 2:51, is suspicious:
1) MB put CR to bed?....really, grown men have to be put to bed...what does that mean?
2) LS still wants to party? Really...after all the events and it's 3:00 AM and she's the only girl?
3) and LS calls DR for her phone? She made her last call at 12:15 and hadn't had it since 2:30ish....now all of sudden she "calls" DR for it at 4:15 AM...really?
4) JR "watches" her leave, from what I can tell, he couldn't have seen her unless he was outside?
Not that all the statements aren't true, who knows....but all are concerningly suspicious as 'post' 2:51 activity. I believe that LE and CS/RS have a pretty good idea the 'how' or 'what' based on the "activity" in that 2:51 vid, just not the whole story, specifically who and where. Just my thoughts....

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

1) MB put CR to bed?....really, grown men have to be put to bed...what does that mean?
2) LS still wants to party? Really...after all the events and it's 3:00 AM and she's the only girl?

I think both of these are explicable by their respective conditions.

3) and LS calls DR for her phone? She made her last call at 12:15 and hadn't had it since 2:30ish....now all of sudden she "calls" DR for it at 4:15 AM...really?

The purpose of the call has been said to be to get DR, who has a car, to pick her up and take her home, not for her phone.

4) JR "watches" her leave, from what I can tell, he couldn't have seen her unless he was outside?

And we know nothing to say he wasn't, or that he couldn't have seen her from somewhere else (as far as I'm concerned - none of us have been in his apartment?).

 

[doubtingthomas]

2:51:

2) LS still wants to party? Really...after all the events and it's 3:00 AM and she's the only girl?

Why would LS ask MB to party? He was home all night working on his papers. As far as we know he was was not at JR's earlier with the rest of them. He did not go to Kilroy's. So why ask someone who has not partied all night to party at 3:00 am? If he was at JR's eralier, then he would be able to ID DB or the MPOI. Or at least who all was there. If LS had said she was going to JR's to party some more that would make more sense. I really have a hard time with this answer. MHO

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

Why would LS ask MB to party?

Because she was high?

 

[bx2]

The purpose of the call has been said to be to get DR, who has a car, to pick her up and take her home, not for her phone.

I believe the account on PT was that the reason for the call was to see if DR could pick her up, but HT's quote was LS used JR's's phone to call DR to see if he knew where her phone was..

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I believe the account on PT was that the reason for the call was to see if DR could pick her up, but HT's quote was LS used JR's's phone to call DR to see if he knew where her phone was..

Interesting. So either JR's friend heard/assumed wrong, or his story changed.

 

[Jupiter812]

I went to the concert tonight. It was quite the production, with the street blocked off and filled with news trucks. Many, many people but sadly in the middle of the first musical act, it became cold and rainy and lots of people left by the end of the first. CS and RS were beaming and some family members were present. BW and the other gal--lots of hugs--but no HT that I saw.

I want to do a brief information dump because the first event was so unexpected – it was almost shocking. The concert opened with a professionally made video—displayed on two jumbo screens. The video consisted of the sequence of events June 3 with photos people and places. Narrated throughout of just the facts.

More or less in order:

Photos of Lauren and narration
Small photo of Lauren, then DR photo pops up beside her.
Narration about the two of them going to JR’s.

All names are said in full throughout. They didn't use JR, DR, etc. haha

JR’s photo and photo of 5 North. Oh, these photos are their mug shots.
Sports photo. CR’s photo and SALZMANN’s photo pops up beside him!
Maps of the route they took.
Photo of 5 North again. No photo but MB name mentioned.

No mention of JW, no mystery guest. No doubt I left something out, but I’m distracted now, so that's a wrap. Project Runway is on!

 

[bloom54]

Thanks Jupiter!!

Here's my immediate "take" on that video... they showed pics of people that they want to be sure people know WHO they are... what they look like... their names -- in hopes that they'll get some more leads from people who might have been in the area that night... might have been at Sports that night... even that someone might have heard someone chatting in the library... in class... anything... and they're focusing on the people who are in the current theories...

and... I'm not surprised the BW was there with them... but no HT...

too bad the weather didn't help them out!

 

[imkeylime]

I believe the account on PT was that the reason for the call was to see if DR could pick her up, but HT's quote was LS used JR's's phone to call DR to see if he knew where her phone was..

I have a hard time believing the call was about her phone, unless she was worried about walking home without one. And if that was the case, she could have borrowed JR's. Wouldn't she have been more concerned about her keys at that point, since she had no way of getting into SW?

It all makes me wonder why JR would let her leave at all ... no shoes, no phone, and no key. Actually, I could blast him on that alone. I have an easier time thinking she'd call to ask for a ride ... or even to have DR meet her halfway.