IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #25

[Chris007]

I'm guessing that if a drug dealer is in Kilroys he is paying with cash, not his debt card. DD usually deal in cash & cash only. JMO

 

[Jupiter812]

I disagree. It could simply mean that they, you know, didn't have any coke, which seems more likely than not. If it implies anything to me, it's that LS was already wasted.



Again, assumptions that she rejected the offer (I don't think that's clear from jupiter's post - jupiter?) and that the guy asked her several times (same).



Regardless of all the assumptions I listed, the above seems to contain fruitful ideas for speculation.

No, it's not clear to me now and it wasn't yesterday. Two times, I asked my friend to clarify and he repeated the same thing. The possibilities I envision are that (1) she was ignoring the guy, consciously or unconsciously; (2) she didn't notice or couldn't hear him; (3) he was loaded too; (4) he was not aggressive but in fact, hung back a bit.

 

[Jupiter812]

In this recent Sports account I wonder if some racial profiling is occurring by the staff person or persons about the Hispanic guy. That is, the part that has him repeatedly approaching LS, which makes him sound perp-ish. Maybe he asked her once or twice and someone viewed him as threatening.

 

[akh]

Depending on the timing of when the man approached her, CR may not be able to describe him (because according to his attorney, he has no memory 15 minutes prior to getting punched). It sounds as though it took place over a period of more than 15 minutes, but we really don't know.

This story makes CR's amnesia period timing potentially even more convenient (for him). ...assuming the Hispanic guy is someone he'd rather not involve in this. And that could be anything from because he fears the guy and his associates (think DD), is someone he uses for party supplies, to he thinks there's no way the guy could be involved and so doesn't want to involve and implicate him in any way.

 

[kemo]

I can't recall what murder case it was but i remember a case where they believed the person either did the crime or new more about it and the parents of the murderd girl bought or rented however u do it .But they got all the billboard sighns that were in front of his house and his work and put up the on the way to his work he would have to see a few more and thier were a few more placed out front of his work location so no matter where he went he would have no choice but to see it daily and nightly and it eventually worked ,Everybody in the town new he was the main suspect and i guess it just finally got to him untill he either confessed or told what he new . I really wish i could remember the case or where i seen it on tv . Im pretty sure though it was one of the first times someone had used a billboard in such a manner that anyone driving in or out of town had to see it with it being so big . Anyway your comment reminded me of that maybe something like that will happen here its gotta play on your mind keeping a secret like that and then seeing big huge banners around town..I was also thinking that if this case like so many people seem to think involves people that are in to some hard drugs like cocaine and god knows what else I would like to know if anyone that has been knowen to be with her or even around that night I would like to know If anyone of them has really went way over board and real heavy on the drugs like more so then usual it might be a good clue that something is clearly on his mind that he is trying to numb the affects of that night ..

The case you are refering to is probably Kristin Smart who was abducted from San Luis Obispo Ca ([ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Kristin_Smart"]Disappearance of Kristin Smart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame])

It is an example of long term harassment of a suspect by the parents of a victim.

 

[holly2325]

I don't think we even know that JR said he saw her round the corner. We just know it's been repeated that is what he said... correct? Maybe that's not what his official statement actually said.

And maybe he did say he saw her round the corner, unless he was just adamant about that then maybe in retrospect he didn't exactly see her round the corner even though he thought he did when trying to remember exactly what he'd seen.

It's not like at the time he would've thought there would be a test or any importance whatsoever on exactly what he would be seeing as she left his apt.

And one of things he could be hiding could be as simple as he knew she was extremely trashed when she left his place, could barely walk or talk, and he let her go anyway so he doesn't exactly want to say he should've known she was in no shape to be walking alone at night. Maybe there's even some fear of legal culpability of letting her leave in that condition? Or maybe the fear is it would be argued it's his fault that she was in that condition.

Few of you seem to think that LE and the family promising some type of limited immunity against charges/drug charges and potential civil suits should be put forth in exchange for information. So without LS being found I'm starting to believe that LE has nothing. What they do have must be extremely limited and probably doesn't fit with other info and theories they'd like to believe.

It's understandable why any PsOI wouldn't want to talk freely about the night because if they did anything wrong (involving drugs for example) they'd likely face trumped up charges from LE/prosecution thinking that overcharging them would lead to them accepting a deal if they told what they know. But what if they've already told what they know? Then they'd be over-charged for a crime and have nothing to offer to get those charges reduced. Meanwhile, LE would be under pressure to seal the deal with the PsOI they have in custody.

As much as JR would be high on anyone's list of PsOI the fact that he came back to IU gives me some pause to wonder why he'd do that if he was really involved in her disappearance?

Perhaps he is comfortable coming back to IU because he knows LS is unfindable now.

 

[Jupiter812]

FYI: Yesterday, CR received a continuance without objection from the state for his pre-trial conference now scheduled for December 6. This is for his last two illegal consumption raps.

https://mycase.in.gov/default.aspx

 

[cspring]

I am the only person viewing this thread right now

That breaks my heart</3

 

[imkeylime]

Today was a bit weird because shortly after posting the pic, I ran into an old acquaintance I hadn't seen for a long time. We were talking about Bloomington and the subject of Lauren's disappearance came up. His nephew works at Kilroy's and said on that night Lauren kept going around the bar asking people if they had any coke. I was flummoxed because this is a version I have not heard before. He said a Hispanic guy approached her several times asking her if she wanted to do some coke. (Maybe she didn't because she was with CR? Because they wanted to buy and do on their on? Who knows?) My acquaintance thinks this dude waited until he saw her alone and then invited her to do coke with him.

This scenario makes sense for several reasons, and I'm interested in just sitting with it for a while. It actually feels good not to be fixated on the usual suspects, as they say.

It does fit with reports that she was talking about coke at the bar. Maybe CR disappeared for awhile, as some sources report, to make a purchase or whatever and that's when the guy approached her?

If nothing else, this (if true) reinforces the thought that coke was on the night's agenda.

 

[CanManEh]

The case you are refering to is probably Kristin Smart who was abducted from San Luis Obispo Ca (Disappearance of Kristin Smart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

It is an example of long term harassment of a suspect by the parents of a victim.

Well No It's not that case because i remember that case and your refering to PFlores and I said the guy confessed Flores did no such thing he pleaded the fifth <modsnip>.he was the last to be seen with her ,cadavor dogs did lead to his bed room among hundreds of rooms and layed on his bed showing her scent to be there and i repeat cadavar dogs meaning a dead body he is guilty and everyone knows he is <modsnip>.Ill tell you this had it been my daughter a billboard would have been the last thing he woulda been worrying about .

 

[holly2325]

Today was a bit weird because shortly after posting the pic, I ran into an old acquaintance I hadn't seen for a long time. We were talking about Bloomington and the subject of Lauren's disappearance came up. His nephew works at Kilroy's and said on that night Lauren kept going around the bar asking people if they had any coke. I was flummoxed because this is a version I have not heard before. He said a Hispanic guy approached her several times asking her if she wanted to do some coke. (Maybe she didn't because she was with CR? Because they wanted to buy and do on their on? Who knows?) My acquaintance thinks this dude waited until he saw her alone and then invited her to do coke with him.

This scenario makes sense for several reasons, and I'm interested in just sitting with it for a while. It actually feels good not to be fixated on the usual suspects, as they say.

Thanks for sharing Jupiter. I guess your friend's nephew has spoken to LE. Reports of LS asking around for coke isn't so shocking. It doesn't necessarily follow that she used a lot of coke that night. It could be a drunk girl showing her new friend CR how cool she is, it may be that she feels cool just looking for coke. Or she might have been using coke and wanted more. Either way, coke use doesn't explain why she hasn't been found.

For me the most interesting detail in your friends story is the hispanic guy. CR's memory loss covers the 15 minutes before the Smallwood altercation. so I imagine there is something that happened in that window that CR does not want to answer questions about. I wonder if CR interacted with someone at Kilroy's?

 

[bloom54]

FYI: Yesterday, CR received a continuance without objection from the state for his pre-trial conference now scheduled for December 6. This is for his last two illegal consumption raps.

https://mycase.in.gov/default.aspx

Why a continuance?

Could they, in this court appearance, ask about his activities on the night LS disappeared?

 

[cluciano63]

Today was a bit weird because shortly after posting the pic, I ran into an old acquaintance I hadn't seen for a long time. We were talking about Bloomington and the subject of Lauren's disappearance came up. His nephew works at Kilroy's and said on that night Lauren kept going around the bar asking people if they had any coke. I was flummoxed because this is a version I have not heard before. He said a Hispanic guy approached her several times asking her if she wanted to do some coke. (Maybe she didn't because she was with CR? Because they wanted to buy and do on their on? Who knows?) My acquaintance thinks this dude waited until he saw her alone and then invited her to do coke with him.

This scenario makes sense for several reasons, and I'm interested in just sitting with it for a while. It actually feels good not to be fixated on the usual suspects, as they say.

What I meant was, he would have had to follow them back to JR/CR's in order to be in a position to get Lauren alone at some point, and I thought that might put him on the video LE has of Lauren and (presumably) CR. And that if such a person was in the frame, LE would be looking for him.

If he did not follow them back to the townhouses I don't know how he would know where Lauren would be later and be able to get her alone?

 

[holly2325]

What I meant was, he would have had to follow them back to JR/CR's in order to be in a position to get Lauren alone at some point, and I thought that might put him on the video LE has of Lauren and (presumably) CR. And that if such a person was in the frame, LE would be looking for him.

If he did not follow them back to the townhouses I don't know how he would know where Lauren would be later and be able to get her alone?

I was sort of toying with the idea that if the "Hispanic guy" is part of the story, CR/LS used him as a last resort to score coke and invited him back to 5 north. I don't see this guy alone with LS. (like you I don't see him hanging around to see if she comes out) plus JR wouldn't cover for this "Hispanic guy."

 

[AbbeyR]

Today was a bit weird because shortly after posting the pic, I ran into an old acquaintance I hadn't seen for a long time. We were talking about Bloomington and the subject of Lauren's disappearance came up. His nephew works at Kilroy's and said on that night Lauren kept going around the bar asking people if they had any coke. I was flummoxed because this is a version I have not heard before. He said a Hispanic guy approached her several times asking her if she wanted to do some coke. (Maybe she didn't because she was with CR? Because they wanted to buy and do on their on? Who knows?) My acquaintance thinks this dude waited until he saw her alone and then invited her to do coke with him.

Hmmm, interesting. Random thoughts:

The things that don't ring true for me:
- that someone (like a bartender) would have witnessed someone loudly going around asking people for coke, and someone else asking them repeatedly.
- someone who wants coke badly enough to be loudly asking around for coke, then saying no when someone offers


- it has some connections with earlier stories about LS, but also with the rumors that developed out of them. I.e. There was one story from TG that said she confided to a friend about how high she was on xanax and coke. As time went on and people started talking about here, it turned into her loudly talking about coke. I don't believe anyone ever said that though in the original story. Wasn't the original story from a bartender too, now that I think about it?

- I'd like to know if and why she was really kicked out. I have personally never seen a girl kicked out of a bar for being drunk, or for talking about coke, but I have seen people kicked out of a bar for doing coke in a bathroom

- I wonder sometimes if the story about a low level drug dealer came from the POI(s) themselves. Hypothetically, let's say they made it up: I would think that it would be a story that their friends might not only believe, but some may be willing to cover for i.e., if they believed Lauren went on her own free will, but didn't think CR or JR really did anything wrong other than let her walk out the door, they may be willing to cover up about the involvement of CR or JR with drugs? This would also explain some of their behavior a little better for me.

But, I'm skeptical ... Partly because from what I've heard, it just doesn't seem like at that point in the night she would have been off to meet a drug dealer (unless this person was at JR's) and partly because I've wondered if the reason Lauren's mom made the comment about her not using her cell phone after leaving smallwood was in response to these kinds of rumors. Remember the rumor that her last call at the bar was to order an eight ball. If that didn't happen, who would have said that, and why??

All that said, good to have another thing to think about...

 

[holly2325]

Hmmm, interesting. Random thoughts:

The things that don't ring true for me:
- that someone (like a bartender) would have witnessed someone loudly going around asking people for coke, and someone else asking them repeatedly.
- someone who wants coke badly enough to be loudly asking around for coke, then saying no when someone offers


- it has some connections with earlier stories about LS, but also with the rumors that developed out of them. I.e. There was one story from TG that said she confided to a friend about how high she was on xanax and coke. As time went on and people started talking about here, it turned into her loudly talking about coke. I don't believe anyone ever said that though in the original story. Wasn't the original story from a bartender too, now that I think about it?

- I'd like to know if and why she was really kicked out. I have personally never seen a girl kicked out of a bar for being drunk, or for talking about coke, but I have seen people kicked out of a bar for doing coke in a bathroom

- I wonder sometimes if the story about a low level drug dealer came from the POI(s) themselves. Hypothetically, let's say they made it up: I would think that it would be a story that their friends might not only believe, but some may be willing to cover for i.e., if they believed Lauren went on her own free will, but didn't think CR or JR really did anything wrong other than let her walk out the door, they may be willing to cover up about the involvement of CR or JR with drugs? This would also explain some of their behavior a little better for me.

But, I'm skeptical ... Partly because from what I've heard, it just doesn't seem like at that point in the night she would have been off to meet a drug dealer (unless this person was at JR's) and partly because I've wondered if the reason Lauren's mom made the comment about her not using her cell phone after leaving smallwood was in response to these kinds of rumors. Remember the rumor that her last call at the bar was to order an eight ball. If that didn't happen, who would have said that, and why??

All that said, good to have another thing to think about...

Some thoughts about kicked out of Kilroy's
If LS got kicked out don't you think she would have likely said , I have to get my phone. The detail of leaving her phone behind leads me to believe that she left Kilroy's either in flight or thinking that she would go to Smallwood briefly and come back. And don't you think a bar employee kicking her out would ask, where are your shoes, and not send her out of the bar with no shoes?

 

[AbbeyR]

Some thoughts about kicked out of Kilroy's
If LS got kicked out don't you think she would have likely said , I have to get my phone. The detail of leaving her phone behind leads me to believe that she left Kilroy's either in flight or thinking that she would go to Smallwood briefly and come back. And don't you think a bar employee kicking her out would ask, where are your shoes, and not send her out of the bar with no shoes?

You're right, that totally makes sense. And, yes, I should hope so (about the shoes)!!

 

[akh]

Some thoughts about kicked out of Kilroy's
If LS got kicked out don't you think she would have likely said , I have to get my phone. The detail of leaving her phone behind leads me to believe that she left Kilroy's either in flight or thinking that she would go to Smallwood briefly and come back. And don't you think a bar employee kicking her out would ask, where are your shoes, and not send her out of the bar with no shoes?

If she was getting kicked out of the bar I could see her not being allowed to get her phone or shoes if she was at all separated from them. IOW, if she was at a table and the phone and shoes were there then I could easily see a bouncer letting her get her stuff. But if she's on the other side of the room from them and they bar is actually kicking her out, then they will want her out of the bar ASAP. They wouldn't necessarily let her go anywhere in the room except to escort her to the closest exit possible.

And I never thought about it before, but that would be an alternate explanation for why she'd leave her shoes and phone behind besides just being too messed up to remember to grab them.

 

[Walker]

But, I'm skeptical ... Partly because from what I've heard, it just doesn't seem like at that point in the night she would have been off to meet a drug dealer (unless this person was at JR's) and partly because I've wondered if the reason Lauren's mom made the comment about her not using her cell phone after leaving smallwood was in response to these kinds of rumors. Remember the rumor that her last call at the bar was to order an eight ball. If that didn't happen, who would have said that, and why??

All that said, good to have another thing to think about...

What is an "eight ball"?

 

[Walker]

I was sort of toying with the idea that if the "Hispanic guy" is part of the story, CR/LS used him as a last resort to score coke and invited him back to 5 north. I don't see this guy alone with LS. (like you I don't see him hanging around to see if she comes out) plus JR wouldn't cover for this "Hispanic guy."

http://tonygatto.wordpress.com/2011...-was-thrown-out-of-bar-alone-not-with-friend/

Maybe the "mystery man" and the "Hispanic guy" are the same person. The time line is problematic, though.