IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #25

[AbbeyR]

Just thinking about some of these new scenarios... if LS was chatting with friends at Sports - and left her phone... wouldn't a friend have picked it up with the intent of returning it to her?? Would they really have left it at the bar?

I don't know... If a friend left their phone with me (specifically) to hang onto and I knew they had left it behind, yes, I would bring it with me and return it to her. On the other hand, it's not uncommon (in my experience) for people to just leave things at a table or under a chair where they know people, and wander off to do their own thing. If I saw that someone had left their shoes at a table, for ex., I would assume they were still there and coming back for them. I might worry about leaving a phone if it was on the table and I was the last person to leave, but again, if I thought the person was still there, I could see leaving it behind the bar or something for them to pick up when they came looking for it.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I thought AE was referring to the bolded part -- that JW texted Lauren. But I'm still curious to know why this is believed to be incorrect. I thought JW's story (via HT) was that they had potential plans for later in the night, but when he couldn't get in touch with her (because her cell phone was left at the bar), he just went to bed.

That is what I meant. They did have plans, but he never said he couldn't get in touch with her, only that she didn't get in touch with him. I believe the idea that he texted her was an assumption based in significant part on a misreading of an article or two that referred to his texting her the following afternoon. I have never seen a media report that said he tried to contact her before going to bed.

 

[LongTallTexan]

Maybe JW was spotted at Kilroys while LS was there with CR. That would be reason to leave quickly without accessories.

 

[bloom54]

Maybe JW was spotted at Kilroys while LS was there with CR. That would be reason to leave quickly without accessories.

I think it's safe to say that if JW had been spotted at Sports that night, it would have been in every MSM (and non-MSM) on the planet...

 

[imkeylime]

Just thinking about some of these new scenarios... if LS was chatting with friends at Sports - and left her phone... wouldn't a friend have picked it up with the intent of returning it to her?? Would they really have left it at the bar?

Supposedly Sports wasn't that crowded that night ... being it was summer. IMO, if friends were involved we'd have heard about it. It's more likely that she put her phone down and didn't remember where. Maybe she left her shoes in a different place, even. I used to think of them being together, but that doesn't have to be the case.

She may have also intended on going back to Sports after getting whatever (cash?) at SW. That's always made sense to me. That she dropped her wristlet in the alley suggests she just wasn't in control of her possessions that night. Unless she dropped her wristlet while being accosted/abducted, but that doesn't fit the timeline, either.

 

[Gabby66]

That is what I meant. They did have plans, but he never said he couldn't get in touch with her, only that she didn't get in touch with him. I believe the idea that he texted her was an assumption based in significant part on a misreading of an article or two that referred to his texting her the following afternoon. I have never seen a media report that said he tried to contact her before going to bed.

Thanks, AE, but hmmmmmm I also believe I'd read where he'd said he went to bed b/c he couldn't reach her. I don't know where I read there (perhaps the same removed articles mentioned previously). I think this was also discussed here somewhere. Anyone else?

If he DIDN'T text her, then I think that's telling. If they had plans to meet and he didn't hear from her, wouldn't it be "normal" for him to try to reach her, rather than just go to bed? I know that's what I would do if I had plans for someone to come over and they hadn't shown. Perhaps this gives more credence to the rumors that they were in an on/off relationship. Even still, I would think he would have called or texted. I'd love to see her phone records.....

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

Thanks, AE, but hmmmmmm I also believe I'd read where he'd said he went to bed b/c he couldn't reach her. I don't know where I read there

I'm sur you have read that... from commenters and speculators, rather than in a media report. It has been repeated often as if it were the truth, here and elsewhere, but published articles, read carefully, make clear to me at least that he did not try to contact her. I went over this a few threads ago.

 

[AbbeyR]

I read the articles. I think most are going from one (to me, ambiguous) statement from HT. But before we get into a big debate over whether or not it's ambiguous (I see it coming ) , what would it mean anyway if it wasn't? That JW told HT that he didn't call Lauren that night? Not that I think this particular issue is really important, but I don't see the point in limiting discussion of this case only to the few statements that have been made in MSM articles (mostly by POI and their lawyers) and treating those as absolute facts.

 

[AbbeyR]

Supposedly Sports wasn't that crowded that night ... being it was summer. IMO, if friends were involved we'd have heard about it. It's more likely that she put her phone down and didn't remember where. Maybe she left her shoes in a different place, even. I used to think of them being together, but that doesn't have to be the case.

Yes, I agree, that probably is the most likely scenario, given the fact that she went on to lose everything else. Just throwing some scenarios out there... we have heard (though not through MSM) that she had friends at the bar.

 

[OldSteve]

Just thinking about Akh's comments above and remembering times I have seen people kicked out of bars (it's true, I have never seen a bouncer/ bar staff concerned with whether or not the person had their belongings. Usually this is because they were kicked out because of fighting or causing some kind of disturbance and were pretty literally thrown out the door).

Together with Gabby's comments, this has me thinking about the early rumors about the 'altercation' starting before they arrived at SW. I've wondered before whether rumors about being kicked out could have been related to a conflict starting at the bar. [Total speculation ahead, but] this kind of scenario would actually make way more sense to me than the idea of the bar kicking LS out for talking about drugs or being messed up (as some have suggested). For example: CR and LS run into Lauren's (and/or JW's) friends, there's some arguing/ shoving, CR gets kicked out, Lauren runs out after him.

Or... take being kicked out out of the equation. We know Lauren was talking to other friends in the bar (from TG's witness, at least), so her shoes and phone were probably left at a table with other people (hence not being stolen). There's some kind of tension or conflict (actual or anticipated) between CR and these other guys and Lauren doesn't want to be seen leaving with him - or maybe she doesn't want others to know she has left at all and plans on coming back. Any of these type of situations could explain why she didn't go back for her shoes and why no one ran after her with them.

Or... maybe she was just out of it enough at that point not to care about shoes. And maybe her 'friends' didn't care either. After all, we know that several people (not just CR) saw her leave Smallwood shortly afterwards and it doesn't look like any of them ran after her to make sure she had shoes or was okay either

Anyway, I'm not even sure if it matters why/how they left the bar, but I've always felt like the 'altercation' at SW may help to explain some of the odd events on either side of it in the timeline. Like Gabby, I think there's probably more to the story than simply being messed up.

Lots to think about thanks to your post!
The leaving of her shoes and cellphone are two big clues and IMO indicates either she was throw out of the bar, or was wasted and didn't know what she was doing... could there be a third possibility?
Perhaps hearing of something that caused her to leave so quickly that she didn't take the time to get her shoes or phone.... (sounds unlikely)..

I tend to see her leaving because she was under the influence .... a gal in that condition surrounded by males is most vulnerable to sexual attack from the males around her, or if left alone by a random attacker. What is the primary cause of death for attractive young women when it comes to crime?
Hiding her because of drugs OD doesn't make much sense since there is no drug DNA.... Hiding her because of a sexual attack - again, isn't that the most common thing done to young women who are victims of sexual attack?

 

[imkeylime]

Yes, I agree, that probably is the most likely scenario, given the fact that she went on to lose everything else. Just throwing some scenarios out there... we have heard (though not through MSM) that she had friends at the bar.

Scenarios are good. You know, she could have left her phone on a table and her friends thought she'd return for it. They might even have left Sports thinking that. Or maybe she left it in the bathroom. I lost two nice rings that way ... took them off to wash my hands and someone took them before I made it back. It would help to know why she went to back to SW ...

That she lost her keys/wristlet in the alley bothers me more, though ... she wouldn't have planned on returning for that, she would have picked it up if she noticed or was able. OTOH, maybe she later went looking for it, trying to retrace her steps. Do you find it odd that someone else found her keys/wristlet so quickly?

 

[Jupiter812]

The fact CS shared with the public about Lauren not using her cellphone after 12:16 a.m. has always bugged me and I finally articulated to myself why. She said the point was not to speculate but rather to stress the importance of always having your phone to dial 911. However, the unintended consequence of her sharing this fact was pure and ongoing speculation. How could we not? I hope that the young people this was directed to got the message...

The thing is, once they engage in risky and excessive behavior, there is no "taking precautions to be safe." By this time, it's too late to "choose your friends wisely." The only precaution is moderation in use or no use at all. This topic was not addressed in the letter and I'm not okay with that. But I do realize that doing so would veer greatly from their strategy of finding Lauren.

http://findlauren.com/letter.pdf

 

[Jupiter812]

I just remembered what someone told me he shared when in front of Freshman class on Day 1 this semester. He said he's been fortunate that none of his students have died, but that his colleagues were not so fortunate. [Heavy pause, you could hear a pin drop.] Then he said, "We know of at least two people who messed up that night: Lauren and the person or persons who took her. Don't be either of these people." Then he gave the lecture about personal responsibility for self and others.

 

[imkeylime]

The fact CS shared with the public about Lauren not using her cellphone after 12:16 a.m. has always bugged me and I finally articulated to myself why. She said the point was not to speculate but rather to stress the importance of always having your phone to dial 911. However, the unintended consequence of her sharing this fact was pure and ongoing speculation. How could we not? I hope that the young people this was directed to got the message...

The thing is, once they engage in risky and excessive behavior, there is no "taking precautions to be safe." By this time, it's too late to "choose your friends wisely." The only precaution is moderation in use or no use at all. This topic was not addressed in the letter and I'm not okay with that. But I do realize that doing so would veer greatly from their strategy of finding Lauren.

http://findlauren.com/letter.pdf

Plus, the friends who would have your back aren't always in the same place you are. My son recently shared how one of his friends got drunk and went swimming in the bay ... as in of the Atlantic Ocean. He made it back, looking for his shirt. All I could think of was LS. While I want my son to look out for his friend, I don't want him to party with him, either.

Which brings me to JW. If he didn't approve of what LS was doing that night, he could be in all kinds of pain for not stopping her. That alone could account for his behavior with the press.

 

[phantomthought]

Plus, the friends who would have your back aren't always in the same place you are. My son recently shared how one of his friends got drunk and went swimming in the bay ... as in of the Atlantic Ocean. He made it back, looking for his shirt. All I could think of was LS. While I want my son to look out for his friend, I don't want him to party with him, either.

Which brings me to JW. If he didn't approve of what LS was doing that night, he could be in all kinds of pain for not stopping her. That alone could account for his behavior with the press.

I thought that was the point LS parents were trying to make.If you are going to go out and party and put yourself in a vulnerable position you do it with trusted friends.Not with a guy you do not know and only met the week before.

 

[AbbeyR]

<snipped>That she lost her keys/wristlet in the alley bothers me more, though ... she wouldn't have planned on returning for that, she would have picked it up if she noticed or was able. OTOH, maybe she later went looking for it, trying to retrace her steps. Do you find it odd that someone else found her keys/wristlet so quickly?

That bothers me too and I do find it odd that she lost her wristlet in the alley and didn't notice (or wasn't capable of picking it up). It makes me wonder what condition she could have been in when she arrived at MB/CR's and supposedly asked MB if he wanted to party... But no, I don't find it odd that someone found it so quickly. I live in an area that is popular with students and often see random shoes, student cards and other things that people have lost/ found in the street. I think quite a few people probably crossed her path that night or just missed her but didn't really consider anything to be out of the ordinary until they heard she was missing...

 

[imkeylime]

That bothers me too and I do find it odd that she lost her wristlet in the alley and didn't notice (or wasn't capable of picking it up). It makes me wonder what condition she could have been in when she arrived at MB/CR's and supposedly asked MB if he wanted to party... But no, I don't find it odd that someone found it so quickly. I live in an area that is popular with students and often see random shoes, student cards and other things that people have lost/ found in the street. I think quite a few people probably crossed her path that night or just missed her but didn't really consider anything to be out of the ordinary until they heard she was missing...

I'm trying to recreate it ... 1. CR gave her a ride on his back since she had no shoes and it fell from her wrist, 2. she stumbled and dropped it without noticing, 3. something spooked her and she dropped it, 4. she was carrying something else and it slipped out of her hand. The last has happened to me (keys vs. keys with a wristlet), but IDK what she would have been carrying. I opt for 1. or 2. With either, the fact that she didn't notice could validate her condition, as you note.

The other thing, which we've discussed from time to time, is what happened to her jacket. It seems like the one thing she didn't leave anywhere, yet it's also missing (still with her?). Actually, I suppose she could have been carrying the jacket (if she didn't have it on). I really wish I had more to say ...

 

[Gabby66]

I'm trying to recreate it ... 1. CR gave her a ride on his back since she had no shoes and it fell from her wrist, 2. she stumbled and dropped it without noticing, 3. something spooked her and she dropped it, 4. she was carrying something else and it slipped out of her hand. The last has happened to me (keys vs. keys with a wristlet), but IDK what she would have been carrying. I opt for 1. or 2. With either, the fact that she didn't notice could validate her condition, as you note.

The other thing, which we've discussed from time to time, is what happened to her jacket. It seems like the one thing she didn't leave anywhere, yet it's also missing (still with her?). Actually, I suppose she could have been carrying the jacket (if she didn't have it on). I really wish I had more to say ...

I keep wondering about that darn jacket too. Perhaps she had it in her jacket pocket and it slipped out. This scenario (falling from jacket) gives me reason to understand how it could have dropped without being detected. Having said that, it also makes me wonder why, if she had the jacket, didn't she have her cell phone in the pocket, along with her purse. I also wonder why she would manage to leave with her jacket on, from Sports. Was it really chilly enough that evening that she would have been wearing the jacket in the bar's sand area? Being a fashion major, I get the feeling she'd rather show off what she was wearing, at a bar, than covering it with a jacket. It's hard to believe she was wearing that around in the bar and just happened to have it on when she ran out/got kicked out, but left everything else. Since she didn't leave it at the bar (apparently), that would indicate it was still at JR's from earlier.

 

[amcfan]

Anyone know (about) how much ground has been covered in the search?

I know they searched the landfill and all...just boggles my mind how there is no trace of her!

 

[imkeylime]

I keep wondering about that darn jacket too. Perhaps she had it in her jacket pocket and it slipped out. This scenario (falling from jacket) gives me reason to understand how it could have dropped without being detected. Having said that, it also makes me wonder why, if she had the jacket, didn't she have her cell phone in the pocket, along with her purse. I also wonder why she would manage to leave with her jacket on, from Sports. Was it really chilly enough that evening that she would have been wearing the jacket in the bar's sand area? Being a fashion major, I get the feeling she'd rather show off what she was wearing, at a bar, than covering it with a jacket. It's hard to believe she was wearing that around in the bar and just happened to have it on when she ran out/got kicked out, but left everything else. Since she didn't leave it at the bar (apparently), that would indicate it was still at JR's from earlier.

The jacket baffles me. As you note, she may have left it at JR's, and we just haven't heard about it. If she took it to Sports, she'd have taken it off, I think ... hung it on the back of a chair, perhaps. She could have tied it around her waist, but IDK if she'd have done that, being a fashion major. Maybe somebody took her jacket from Sports and doesn't want to admit it, under the circumstances. A lot of clothes disappear from our local high school ... some kids take what they find.

I actually thought that her jacket might show up in the landfill even if LS didn't. If the jacket didn't have pockets, maybe she kept her phone in her wristlet and just had it out for whatever reason. That's weird, too, though ... since CS said LS didn't use it after leaving SW. Maybe she was waiting for a call/text or using it to check the time? Or did she have a watch on? Actually, having her cell out might have been instinctive ... which would make her leaving it even stranger.