IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #26

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Here's a copy of the actual press release from Voyles' office.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/11/02/1102_RosenbaumPR.pdf

Proofreading wouldn't have been a horrible idea Jennifer..

I guess the info about the state's polygraph team is somewhat comforting.

I tend to believe he is not involved with the disappearance at all. If not, the face to face meeting and this press release would be beyond crazy (as suggested by posters above). I just find that to be highly unlikely. Why put himself in a position where he could have a huge slip-up? Just to clear his name?

If he's guilty, I'd think he'd care more about getting away with murder (or hiding a body) than public image...
 
Glad to hear you say that... I had that same feeling... his "interview" hasn't changed anything for me...

To me, looking beyond the spin, the only thing that article really told me was that they were not even willing to confirm the shred of information that JR has already shared: that he watched Lauren leave at 4:30 AM. Would that "compromise the investigation"? Obviously the role of the attorneys is to protect JR, not the integrity of the investigation. If they could clear him, they would. Saying that is a nice way to imply that they are actually being helpful behind the scenes, which I doubt, based on the reaction of the Spierers and the simple fact that it took him several months to speak with them. I can't think of any circumstance where a normal person who had nothing to hide would act that way.

Plus, once again, all of this blather about the polygraphs says nothing about what questions were asked or if LE was satisfied with the information provided. It says they were satisfied with the tests, which may or may not mean the same thing.
 
I'm having a hard time doing anything but lowering my suspicions toward JR based on the things we've learned. Coming back to town was one thing, and AFAIK that could've been totally against all advice of his lawyers... but meeting with the parents with the lawyers present (indicating that the lawyers signed off on the idea)? That's just not something that's going to happen if the lawyers feel there's anything that could harm their client in a court of law.

Even if JR has steadfastly TOLD his attorney he's innocent they would (at least you'd assume) need more than that to allow the above. They'd have to feel confident in his innocence and feel they could prove it rather easily. His attorneys IMHO would be nothing short of negligent to sign off on the above otherwise.

JR himself would have to be nothing short of stupid to agree to a meeting if he was guilty so I have a hard time thinking he'd think the PR gamble would be worth it. A little twist on an old saying would be true here- It would be better to be thought guilty than to open his mouth and prove it. I would think his attorneys would convince him of that if he started jumping up and down wanting to clear the public perception of his name if he had something to hide.

About the only way I could think he might feel confident enough to go forward with the meeting and knowing he was guilty was if he knows enough about what happened to not be crossed up by something someone else would know AND know the body isn't going to be found. About the only way I could see him (if guilty) being confident the body would not be found would be if it was in the landfill, he knew it, and the landfill search has been concluded without finding the body.
 
I don't know, with his lawyers there he has very little risk. I'm sure they went over very carefully what he should and should not share.

I think it's possible he backed himself into a corner by making that public (and false) statement about speaking privately with the Spierers. I can imagine that JR (and his parents) are probably freaking out about everything written about him online and are trying to do some major damage control. This doesn't really tell me anything one way or the other about his guilt or innocence.
 
All good thoughts and points above.

And thank you, Abbey for providing a great counterbalance. Lawyers know how to spin, that I am certain of. I too have thought the same thing about his family. Yesterday I noticed the JRNTT Uncensored blog is gone--I do not believe it to be coincidence.
 
Proofreading wouldn't have been a horrible idea Jennifer..

I guess the info about the state's polygraph team is somewhat comforting.

I tend to believe he is not involved with the disappearance at all. If not, the face to face meeting and this press release would be beyond crazy (as suggested by posters above). I just find that to be highly unlikely. Why put himself in a position where he could have a huge slip-up? Just to clear his name?

If he's guilty, I'd think he'd care more about getting away with murder (or hiding a body) than public image...

Are you referring to an error in the press release? I can no longer access it and I didn't save it.
 
Just so everyone is aware on the entry procedures in SW, there is a breezeway and then an open lobby with elevators and the entry to the garage, there is a call box that is linked to all the apartments, so those without keys (guests, delivery people) call up and a phone rings inside the apartment, then the resident answers and lets you up. Then you can press the button inside the elevator to that floor, otherwise you can't get to a floor without a key card.

And if she even tried, she would be on camera at the SW entrance, correct?

Do you know if the lobby desk is manned 24 hrs/day last summer? I seem to recall a post saying security had been cut back but have no idea if that is true.

I wonder if she tried to enter from the garage for some reason and if so, would she on camera there?
 
A few interesting tidbits in this FOX article: the part about immunity and going before a grand jury and then this rather telling statement from "their spokeswoman." This is the first I've heard of such a person.

"Fox59 contacted Rob and Charlene Spierer for a comment about their meeting with Rosenbaum, but they had none. As for Rosenbaum's interview with The Journal News, their spokeswoman said "Sounds like a lawyer wants to get something out there."

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-rose...urens-disappearance-20111101,0,4796797.column.

Interesting, in the article the immunity mentioned is for criminal prosecution, no mention of immunity for civil suit (if such is even possible). Also, when the article mentioned a "free pass" it should have mentioned ( IMO) that such a free pass would not protect one from a civil suit.
 
Are you referring to an error in the press release? I can no longer access it and I didn't save it.

"...No information
about what specifics he has shared with the authorities will be release to the media by us so as to
not jeopardize the integrity of the investigation..."

Yeah, I'm nitpicking, but I don't think its too much to ask that a document intended to be released to the public be error free..
 
A few interesting tidbits in this FOX article: the part about immunity and going before a grand jury and then this rather telling statement from "their spokeswoman." This is the first I've heard of such a person.

"Fox59 contacted Rob and Charlene Spierer for a comment about their meeting with Rosenbaum, but they had none. As for Rosenbaum's interview with The Journal News, their spokeswoman said "Sounds like a lawyer wants to get something out there."

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-rose...urens-disappearance-20111101,0,4796797.column.

The reporter puts words into JR's mouth.

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-rose...urens-disappearance-20111101,0,4796797.column

Rosenbaum first spoke to Fox59 in August and insisted he talked with Rob and Charlene Spierer regularly.

"I talk with them privately, I deal with them privately," he said from inside his car with the window rolled down.

But when Fox59 shared his statement with Lauren's parents, they were shocked.

Charlene Spierer told Fox 59, "We do not have and have never had any relationship with Jay Rosenbaum. I have never spoken with Jay Rosenbaum about Lauren's disappearance and have had absolutely no interactions with him whatsoever."

JR did not say that he talked to LS's parents on a regular basis. His statement means only that he talks to some member(s) of her family. Surely LS has relatives other than her parents.

JR may have been distorting the truth, but the reporter obviously did not even consider whether or not JR may have contact with some other member of LS's family, which may be likely since his grandparents at one point lived in the same neighborhood as LS's grandparents.

The quality of reporting on this case is very poor. The bias is obvious. Without evidence, the reporters strongly believe that JR either murdered LS or let her die, and then secretively disposed of her body.

The media is attacking this man, and denying him his rights to due process under the law.

Reporters are often very idealistic people; maybe they want to blame JR, because to confront the facts of the situation refutes all their favorite dogma: women are equal to men in every respect, except that a woman is more likely to be targeted for rape, and less likely to be able to fend off an attacker; drugs are harmless fun, and part of "finding yourself," except that you could end up dead for nothing; universal college is a brilliant idea, except that only about 15% of the population need research skills, and the rest are so bored that they are turning to drugs.

If JR is a crazed murderer, none of those exceptions have to be confronted.

Yesterday I happened to observe a group of three college students. The girl had two large, athletic-looking male companions. She had apparently brought them along with her to a store to intimidate a store manager who had refused to give her a cash refund for merchandise without a receipt. At first, the larger guy seemed mentally challenged; he was babbling inarticulately, and then he started kicking his legs up and prancing about the store for no reason. The other guy was more sober, but his demeanor was crude and threatening. Despite the fact that the manager was a lady his mother's age, he was smart-alecky and offensive.

If only two college students stoned on drugs can be difficult, can you imagine how the college administrators feel, being held accountable for the behavior of hundreds of them, similarly stoned, on any given weekend night?
 
The reporter puts words into JR's mouth.

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-rose...urens-disappearance-20111101,0,4796797.column

JR did not say that he talked to LS's parents on a regular basis. His statement means only that he talks to some member(s) of her family. Surely LS has relatives other than her parents.

While the video doesn't show the question asked, I see no indication that the question was an ambiguous one about family, do you? Both the article and video clip clearly state he was questioned about whether or not he had spoken to Rob and Charlene Spierer. (Unless I am missing something...?)
 
About DNA: Rather than wondering why they didn't collect DNA from JR, I'm wondering what DNA from JR could possibly tell them? What would the risk be for him to provide DNA?
 
About DNA: Rather than wondering why they didn't collect DNA from JR, I'm wondering what DNA from JR could possibly tell them? What would the risk be for him to provide DNA?

DNA could rule in or out a lot of things for JR, assuming that they ever find a body. It could prove that he did or did not rape LS (if they find evidence of a rape). It could also prove or disprove that she was defensive against him as an attacker, if DNA is discovered underneath her fingernails. Additionally, if they ever discover a crime scene, they could find DNA there.

My guess is that they already have his DNA. It's easy to collect without him knowing. They've been to his apartment. Not approaching him for a collection helps to put his mind at ease, making him feel less of a POI. That's the point when guilty parties start to get a bit more "sloppy" with their confidence.

Regarding the visit with the Spierers, it's very odd that he would meet with them if he's guilty. However, I also think of how many months he's had to "prepare" for that meeting with his attorney. An attorney could theoretically chew him up and spit him out over the last few months and turn a guilty person (or even "somewhat" guilty - in terms of drugs, etc.) into a fairly calm communicator, even on the hot seat. He wasn't under oath. It was a casual meeting - not a deposition. All questions posed were answered, but that could mean so many things, such as "I don't know". That's an answer.
 
I did think about the rape issue, but was thinking that -- hypothetically -- if rape was involved, JR could have admitted to having consensual sex which would make the DNA irrelevant if a body was found (God, I hate even typing that). However, I hadn't thought about the other points, especially the fact that they might have DNA already. Thanks, Gabby.
 
My guess is that they already have his DNA. It's easy to collect without him knowing. They've been to his apartment.

That was exactly my thought... they don't NEED it from him

All questions posed were answered, but that could mean so many things, such as "I don't know". That's an answer.

And with his attorney there who would have been able to stop the questioning at any time, I don't see a huge risk either..

And I've never really suspected any of them of raping her...
 
The reporter puts words into JR's mouth.

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-rose...urens-disappearance-20111101,0,4796797.column

The quality of reporting on this case is very poor. The bias is obvious. Without evidence, the reporters strongly believe that JR either murdered LS or let her die, and then secretively disposed of her body.

The media is attacking this man, and denying him his rights to due process under the law.

Snipped by me. While I wouldn't go as far as to say that the media is denying JR his rights, I will say that, IMO, journalism at this juncture in time can be quite sensational, with the goal often being a story, which isn't necessarily the same as the truth. IDK if that's the case here, but I do believe there's a danger in that ... it can put a person on "trial" who shouldn't be, and it can give the community at large less motivation to dig deep. To quote one of my favorite old TV shows, "The truth is out there."

That said, IDK what to think about JR, actually, except that he acknowledges seeing LS last.
 
I did think about the rape issue, but was thinking that -- hypothetically -- if rape was involved, JR could have admitted to having consensual sex which would make the DNA irrelevant if a body was found (God, I hate even typing that). However, I hadn't thought about the other points, especially the fact that they might have DNA already. Thanks, Gabby.

I hate having the discussion of her body too! But I also wanted to point out that if DNA was found "there", while you're right, he could admit to consensual sex, there's often other evidence found (depending on the condition of a body) to support/perhaps prove a rape, such as signs of forcefulness and defensiveness.

To be clear, I've never really thought it was rape either, unless it was a random abduction (and then I think it's likely). This would however be a good reason to have JR's (and other POI's) DNA.....if an obviously raped body is found and they can rule all of them out through DNA, it would more likely point to a random abduction.
 
DNA could rule in or out a lot of things for JR, assuming that they ever find a body. It could prove that he did or did not rape LS (if they find evidence of a rape). It could also prove or disprove that she was defensive against him as an attacker, if DNA is discovered underneath her fingernails. Additionally, if they ever discover a crime scene, they could find DNA there.

My guess is that they already have his DNA. It's easy to collect without him knowing. They've been to his apartment. Not approaching him for a collection helps to put his mind at ease, making him feel less of a POI. That's the point when guilty parties start to get a bit more "sloppy" with their confidence.

Regarding the visit with the Spierers, it's very odd that he would meet with them if he's guilty. However, I also think of how many months he's had to "prepare" for that meeting with his attorney. An attorney could theoretically chew him up and spit him out over the last few months and turn a guilty person (or even "somewhat" guilty - in terms of drugs, etc.) into a fairly calm communicator, even on the hot seat. He wasn't under oath. It was a casual meeting - not a deposition. All questions posed were answered, but that could mean so many things, such as "I don't know". That's an answer.

Gabby, thanks for this. I find it fascinating to read about and to consider how they could have been prepping and grooming him for this.

The Spierer's "No comment" speaks to how unimpressed they were with this meeting and the information he provided. If JR genuinely gave them anything to hold onto they would have acknowledged it, albeit in a small way, even if it were to say something banal like "We appreciate he took the time to meet with us." Period.
 
My bet is that we can expect to hear from CS within a few days...
 
Just so we're clear, if a woman is not conscious or is wasted and cannot consent to sex, that is rape.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
83
Guests online
240
Total visitors
323

Forum statistics

Threads
609,157
Messages
18,250,217
Members
234,549
Latest member
raymehay
Back
Top