IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #29

[AbbeyR]

Wouldn't all of this extend to JR and MB too? Here again, even with this Zoe Camp story... we are hearing about the poor poor victims who are being trashed relentlessly in the media... no not Lauren... CR/JR/MB yes these are the poor poor victims who are being "harassed". While your point about hostility is notable, isn't this narcissistic bent common to all three of the main POI's?

Oh, totally. CR's just the only one who has the audacity to whine to the media about how much his life sucks because of Lauren's disappearance. The others at least get their friends and moms to do it for them.

 

[Jacobite]

Lauren Spierer's family truly believed that Jesse Wolff loved Lauren. No way would he cause her harm.
But, he is the POI who clearly had a motive.
It's said that the guys who confronted Corey Rossman were his buddies and they are from Indiana.

 

[Jupiter812]

Hey, all. Greetings. I've logged on only once briefly in the past forever and am surprised I was able to find my way here. Good to see you all fighting the good fight. I haven't followed the case and I generally don't read my Google alerts. But I have not forgotten and I still keep a watchful eye when walking, biking, driving. How can I not?! The renewed billboards and posters in the community are great.

I'm posting because I deemed it worth sharing given CR's recent diatribe and posters' comments about him. From what I was told about his behavior in the classroom, it is not unusual for him to act this way. He had bouts of being upset, feeling wronged and displaying his defensiveness overtly and dramatically.

That's really all I have to say.

Stay safe and well...!

 

[mfunky]

Hey, all. Greetings. I've logged on only once briefly in the past forever and am surprised I was able to find my way here. Good to see you all fighting the good fight. I haven't followed the case and I generally don't read my Google alerts. But I have not forgotten and I still keep a watchful eye when walking, biking, driving. How can I not?! The renewed billboards and posters in the community are great.

I'm posting because I deemed it worth sharing given CR's recent diatribe and posters' comments about him. From what I was told about his behavior in the classroom, it is not unusual for him to act this way. He had bouts of being upset, feeling wronged and displaying his defensiveness overtly and dramatically.

That's really all I have to say.

Stay safe and well...!

Thanks for sharing! That doesn't surprise me at all, given what we know about him. Speaking of school, did anyone else notice in one of those new louhud articles that it was mentioned he hasn't graduated yet? He will be a 6 year senior in the fall. I just found that interesting.

 

[Jacobite]

So sad.

Oh hey, CR- you want LS's parents to stop "harassing" you? Take the FBI Polygraph....Notice that DR's name wasn't mentioned anywhere in that 4 page article? Yeah, it's because he took and passed an FBI administered polygraph.

Jesse Wolff and Corey Rossman seem to be the 2 boys who are avoiding the detectives. But, I doubt they were in on this together.
So, who is POI number one?

 

[Jacobite]

Finally, the name Zachary Oakes has made national news in connection with this case.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/06/01/two-years-later-mystery-surrounds-disappearance-indiana-university-student/

And, it appears Jay had 2 overnight guests. One must indeed be DB.

 

[mfunky]

Jesse Wolff and Corey Rossman seem to be the 2 boys who are avoiding the detectives. But, I doubt they were in on this together.
So, who is POI number one?

Good question about POI #1- I always thought it was either CR or JR?

& Based on his inconsistent stories and how he's the link between CR and JR's stories, it seems like MB's the one LE could have or potentially could get to crack.

 

[akh]

Jesse Wolff and Corey Rossman seem to be the 2 boys who are avoiding the detectives. But, I doubt they were in on this together.
So, who is POI number one?

Both would be at the top of the list of the most likely theories.
If you take out stranger abduction then you have either the guy with her on video and with witnesses, showing and talking about her condition... Or the boyfriend that she'd not met up with that evening, not (apparently) contacted, and she was out with someone else leaving him with the most obvious (and classic) motive.

So it would make sense they both have the most to fear from LE and prosecution and could be the most fearful of being wrongly suspected. Which could explain their 'distance'.

CR has MB and JR apparently alibiing his story though (and maybe JR had guests that also alibied him). No idea if JW has an alibi beyond 'sleeping' and how ironclad that could be (could he have left and returned undetected?).

So it's a conspiracy vs jilted boyfriend at the top of the list IMHO. ...Unless you believe that CR and MB are truthful and JR is the real culprit. But if he had houseguests then either they had to be in a position of no knowledge or also part of a conspiracy.

I've said for a long time that JW IMHO gets too much benefit of the doubt here. I think a large part of that is because the parents initially shifted the blame from him and I don't think they had good reason for that except that they 'knew' him and so it made it harder for them to see him as capable of anything versus these 3 men from 5N that they'd probably never heard of before. I think this was a mistake on their part. It narrowed public and media focus too much when there was a bigger picture to be explored.

I still believe the confrontation at Smallwood is odd and mighty coincidental not to have been some kind of a factor and/or a missing link in the case.

Again, I think the narrow focus has allowed this event to escape the scrutiny it otherwise would have. You'd think the media could investigate this more thoroughly and at least take some mystery out of it, or tie it to some broader possibilities. But when the public and media focus on the guys at 5N so thoroughly it makes the SW confrontation just seem to be a footnote in the timeline more than a crucial piece of the puzzle needing to be better explored.

IMHO....

 

[Ros]

What struck me in this article was this quote:

"“There’s no one else to throw into the mix,” Mike Ciravolo said after nearly two years of investigating the case with his firm, Beau Dietl & Associates."

Does this mean that the PIs have cleared DB and anyone else who was at 5N? Does this mean that they do not think a stranger abduction is a possibility?

Even though I agree with the notion that the POIs know more than they are saying, I would hesitate to rule out stranger abduction unless ALL vehicles (not just the white truck) that passed through the area in the appropriate time frame were identified and investigated.

I am reminded of the story about the person who saw someone on his hands and knees under a street lamp. The first person said, "What are you doing?" The second replied, "I'm looking for my keys." The first said, "I'll help you. Where do you think you lost them?" The second, "Somewhere on this street." The first, "Why are you looking only here, then?" The second, "This is the only place that's lit up."

The stranger abduction theory is in the "dark part of the street" while we (and probably the PIs and the Spierers and maybe LE) are looking at 5N where the light is.

Remember that LS's disappearance is not the only unsolved mystery in Bloomington. No one has been charged in the death of Crystal Grubb. And Margaret Ann Hayes disappeared in 1977 and was never found.

 

[VeryVeritas]

I thought the same thing.

It would be really interesting to know what LE and the Spierer family knows that we don't know. AKA text messages, interview revelations with JW, etc. Of all the POI's, you'd think he especially would be so involved and vocal about finding out what happened to his girlfriend of two years. Sad.

That is very true. He should be suspect and his behavior these past 2 years should be telling. He seemed to say goodbye to Lauren rather quickly. Like the other POI's he seemed to be able to move on rather swiftly. However, there hasn't been one shard of public evidence to point towards him.
If there is any, please let us know... Otherwise he seems very off the hook.

 

[jjenny]

JW wasn't there and from the description LS could barely walk (if at all).
I find it unlikely she could make it to JW's house. He wouldn't know when she was going to leave JR, and JR apparently claims he saw her walk and presumably didn't see anyone following her.
So if she did leave JR then it's more likely this was a stranger abduction. However, did she ever leave as JR apparently claims? Sad that all this time later we are still right where we started.

 

[VeryVeritas]

The one detail she added about the pregame party contradicts JR's two earlier accounts -- In 2011 he told HT he had run out of alcohol before Lauren got there. Then he told the PI's that "the hard alcohol was gone by the time by the time Spierer arrived, though there was still beer".



Just pointing it out, since JR made a point of telling people about the alcohol. One more little piece of info that for me, indicates that JR's story is a legal defense, not a story of what actually happened.

Thanks for catching this discrepancy. It has long been assumed that Lauren was blitzed, and that has long been in contradiction with JR's disclosure of what transpired at his place (CYA is always how it appeared to me).

I'm very curious of ZC or others that would admit they participated in drug use with Lauren and the origin of those drugs. It may rule in or rule out various motives. One of the early prevailing rumors was that LS had talked about consuming various substances at Kilroy's. The most likely place that would have occurred was at JR's, and would have been an experience shared with at least one other person. DR did take an LE poly correct? And so one key question I would want to know (and they should have asked...) would have been about witnessing drug use or being involved with drug consumption with LS. I would want to know this and follow this lead, because it would be a strong motive to conceal her death.

Ok, so the very weird thing here is that there is a discrepancy about Alcohol... but JR did admit that there was "drug" consumption at his place.
Why would he lie about Alcohol yet be forthcoming but vague about drug use?

 

[VeryVeritas]

JW wasn't there and from the description LS could barely walk (if at all).
I find it unlikely she could make it to JW's house. He wouldn't know when she was going to leave JR, and JR apparently claims he saw her walk and presumably didn't see anyone following her.
So if she did leave JR then it's more likely this was a stranger abduction. However, did she ever leave as JR apparently claims? Sad that all this time later we are still right where we started.

I agree that JW does not appear to be involved, there just isn't a single piece of ANY evidence that points to him. While on the other hand there is a preponderance of evidence that points to 5N POI's.

I would not agree that we are where we "started" 2 years ago.
A lot of misinformation has been eliminated, and theories have been hashed fairly methodically. The biggest breakthrough was 1 year ago when the PI's revealed a lot of details about the timeline, Lauren's condition and various pieces of evidence. All of it strongly points to 5N, and nothing points to ANYTHING thereafter or to JW.

It is true that WS's are starving for new information and evidence. And at the same time, CR/MB/JR and JW all seem to be uncooperative even after 2 years (exercising their rights, and yet not helping solve the case)
I just can't imagine being friends with Lauren, or romantically involved with her and not helping. It's very hard for me to understand that if any of these people had nothing to do with her demise that they would not be working hard to help. What do they really risk by taking an LE administered Poly? It can't be used as evidence, so what are they afraid of revealing?
They each must know things that they don't want revealed. And that information could help solve the case.

 

[doubtingthomas]

First we've publicly heard from "ZC", one of the girls at the JR pre-party who later was asleep when CR/LS rang her doorbell at Tenth and College.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201305...en-Spierer-case-3-men-scapegoated-friend-says

Nice that someone has come forward with some info. But my question is, if she was asleep and no one answered the door, how does she know it was CR/LS? LS could not have told her. CR can't remember anything so he could not have told her. JR would only know if CR told him but he has no memory of the night. So how is it we know whose door was knocked on.

 

[Jacobite]

Nice that someone has come forward with some info. But my question is, if she was asleep and no one answered the door, how does she know it was CR/LS? LS could not have told her. CR can't remember anything so he could not have told her. JR would only know if CR told him but he has no memory of the night. So how is it we know whose door was knocked on.

I suspect it was caught on video. So, a detective informed her of this.

 

[Jacobite]

The only one's who will not talk to Spierer's detective are Corey Rossman and Jesse Wolff. All the others have done so.

 

[Jacobite]

Two Years. No grand jury. No suspects. WOW!!!!!

 

[sammi89]

Just thinking this through... How does it work with drunk driving accidents? If someone drinks at a party and gets into an accident, can't the host of the party be held criminally responsible (and face civil suits), even if the person insisted on leaving and driving home? (Social host liability or something?)

Can arguments like this apply outside of driving accidents?

I've always suspected there was a reason the very first thing JR wanted known was that he had supposedly 'run out of alcohol' before Lauren arrived (although I think he said otherwise in his interview with the PI)

From what I've understood from my torts class, no, generally speaking, a social host will not be held liable. This makes sense if you think about it: social gatherings are quite common, social hosts are usually ill-equipped for monitoring every single person (and the factors determining what is "too much" alcohol for one person are different for another), and the liability stemming from that could be quite endless. Not only that, but at a certain point, an individual should be held accountable for their own choices (i.e., making the choice to drink and then getting behind the wheel). Personally, I agree simply because the host can only do so much at that point. I think there's exceptions for underage guests and obviously if you are licensed to distribute. Statutes might also play a role. However, we only talked about it in the sense of the drunk guest who gets behind the wheel and injures someone else --> can he go back and sue the host for providing? Just want to be clear because context can make a huge difference lol. I'm not sure how it might be different outside of that situation.


JR's comments are definitely interesting, especially given the points people have recently made about "running out of alcohol" that contradicts the new information. Also interesting in light of how they are okay acknlowleding drug use, just not the alcohol. Weird. Drinking is such a college staple that I'm not sure what the big deal is in denying that, but not the drugs. I'd guess because acknowledging her possible drug intake makes it seem more like it was LS' fault.

 

[Jacobite]

Hosting a party and inviting under-aged drinkers is a crime called contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Admitting such could open himself up to civil liabilities and legal problems. So, I understand he might wish to say the alcohol was gone when she arrived.

 

[sammi89]

Both would be at the top of the list of the most likely theories.
If you take out stranger abduction then you have either the guy with her on video and with witnesses, showing and talking about her condition... Or the boyfriend that she'd not met up with that evening, not (apparently) contacted, and she was out with someone else leaving him with the most obvious (and classic) motive.

So it would make sense they both have the most to fear from LE and prosecution and could be the most fearful of being wrongly suspected. Which could explain their 'distance'.

CR has MB and JR apparently alibiing his story though (and maybe JR had guests that also alibied him). No idea if JW has an alibi beyond 'sleeping' and how ironclad that could be (could he have left and returned undetected?).

So it's a conspiracy vs jilted boyfriend at the top of the list IMHO. ...Unless you believe that CR and MB are truthful and JR is the real culprit. But if he had houseguests then either they had to be in a position of no knowledge or also part of a conspiracy.

I've said for a long time that JW IMHO gets too much benefit of the doubt here. I think a large part of that is because the parents initially shifted the blame from him and I don't think they had good reason for that except that they 'knew' him and so it made it harder for them to see him as capable of anything versus these 3 men from 5N that they'd probably never heard of before. I think this was a mistake on their part. It narrowed public and media focus too much when there was a bigger picture to be explored.

I still believe the confrontation at Smallwood is odd and mighty coincidental not to have been some kind of a factor and/or a missing link in the case.

Again, I think the narrow focus has allowed this event to escape the scrutiny it otherwise would have. You'd think the media could investigate this more thoroughly and at least take some mystery out of it, or tie it to some broader possibilities. But when the public and media focus on the guys at 5N so thoroughly it makes the SW confrontation just seem to be a footnote in the timeline more than a crucial piece of the puzzle needing to be better explored.

IMHO....

I do understand why you are skeptical about the Smallwood encounter, but do you have any links pointing to where this was, in fact, actually NOT out of pure concern for LS? Every time CR has spoken to the media, he has been lashing out. Jupiter just posted how he is rumored to be acting on campus/in class,etc. These are all behaviors he demonstrates while completely sober. Based on that information, I don't think it's unreasonable to think his behavior while intoxicated could be extremely obnoxious and given LS' reported condition, I don't think it is unreasonable that strangers would be concerned. If CR responded anything like he has in the media, I can totally see a hot-headed kid punching him, especially if he had been partying elsewhere too.

I also thought ZO & co. were NOT friends with JW? I know it was initially unclear, but I thought it was later decided they actually weren't friends?

I definitely agree that JW should be critically looked at, but always in context. Sure, he had the classic motive, but there has been zero evidence even hinting that JW knew what was happening or was around (that the public has been alerted to). He was also the one to call the parents. I definitely think he should be looked at because he would have had the classic motive, fortunately or unfortunately. However, in my own opinion, he would only be the number 1 POI if CR, MB, JR, AND JR's guests had already been ruled out (and there are definitely scenarios that would not involve ALL CR, MB, JR, and JR's guests). I do think that JW should be examined before a random abduction though. Although both seem unlikely based on the known public evidence (JW wasn't around/might not have known about the night's events and the white truck was ruled out), at least JW would have motive.

I feel for the Spierers. I can at least come up with plausible reasons JW would no longer want to be involved (it sounds like LS and JW may have been on the rocks, he might have been furious she ditched him and sent some nasty texts that in hindsight look really bad), but none make it okay morally to not continue talking. Again, legally, I agree JW does not need to continue talks. Morally though, LS was his long-term girlfriend. I do not understand why he isn't doing more.

I have even less sympathy for the 5N boys. Unlike JW, they were with her that night. They saw (and probably provided) whatever she had. They were supposedly the last to see her. I understand the need to protect one's own interests, but I would hope that they would consider finding their friend as something in their best interest, even if it were purely for their own selfish peace of mind and removal from public scrutiny.