IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #29

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bessie said:
Regarding the bolded sentence, that's exactly my point.

It's hard for me to exclude one or the other because all three have been so cagey, and their stories are too pat. IMO, someone had enough brains to devise a clever method of deception. Make one guy passed out drunk, and the second so immersed in his studies he's clueless to virtually everything around him. That leaves one to tell the story that LS left on her own. It's much neater that way, no worries about varying statements because only one has to remember the script. Admittedly, there are no hard facts to support the theory, and I might well be wrong, but until someone starts talking, I doubt I'll ever move past the 5N trio.

On the other hand, JW's mother's statements aren't lost on me. I wasn't particularly alarmed by her choice of words that Jacobite pointed out. After two years, I'm sure most people presume LS is "no longer with us", sadly. What I found interesting is her description of the couple's relationship. IF true, it was an unhealthy one.

"... he was guilty of taking care of Lauren"

"Jesse always threatened to call and tell her parents and she said, 'If you do, I'll break up with you'."

"My son took care of her for two years..."

She portrays JW as severely codependent, and that raises some flags for me. I'm just not sure I buy her story, but isn't it ironic that her intent to flame LS has instead turned eyes toward her son.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/02/missing-student-boyfriend-family-fume/2382909/

:moo::moo:
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yes and even more than that it's becoming a culture against Lauren, the
'just went too far this time' quote from HT being the beginning of this and
now JW's parents.
Again, these parents need to accept that their children were doing drugs and drinking that night. Are we to believe tiny Lauren was running around spearheading all the partying and no one else was involved?
We see from JWs parents that they are not willing to risk one iota of their childrens' lives, their golden futures, to help find Lauren. Even the telling of
what drugs were being passed around, are we to believe only Lauren and DR were partaking?
The drugs and the witnesses--Wonder how high/drunk some of the witnesses were in this case? Since none of the witnesses except JR and CR admits to being drunk,who knows? Leaving out this key info puts a lot of holes in witness testimony, including roommates.
 
Also something else about the bartender witness. And statistics.
You have 4 or 5 bars within 2-3 block radius still open or closing
right at this time, up to 3 a.m. and then they have to clean up, Kilroys
being one of them. So there's a roughly 1 in 4 chance that the witness worked at Kilroys. If so, I wouldn't believe this witness. But remember, right when all this came up that summer, Kilroys closed down and no more witnesses.
 
"Jesse always threatened to call and tell her parents and she said, 'If you do, I'll break up with you'."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/02/missing-student-boyfriend-family-fume/2382909/

Maybe he made one last threat and she broke it off. Hence her going to the Indy 500 with JR, CR, MB (and others) on May 29. Hence he makes his agent orange comment on FB on May 30. Hence 3 days later she is partying with JR, CR, MB (and others) again. Now she is missing. Any red flags here?
 
How tacky and totally lacking in class or manners or even sympathy, of Jesse's mother to speak out like that. Defending her son by shaming/blaming Lauren. Disgusting.

OT but she reminds me of a (fictional) mother in a book I just finished...saying her teenage son was not to be blamed for beating and burning a homeless woman to death, as the woman had no business sleeping in a phone booth her son wanted to use...ugh.
 
Still stewing over NW's comments. In her statements, she could have also urged the 5N boys to come forward with the truth about what happened to "the love of Jess'e life", but she doesn't. It seems that while she doesn't want Jesse bearing any blame or scrutiny for Lauren's disappearance, she also doesn't want ANYONE to have to take the blame. Except Lauren. The woman clearly has no desire for justice for Lauren. She seems to be saying- 'Just leave it alone! Drop it! Everyone stop talking about her and trying to find out what happened to her, it is her own fault now let's forget it!' At least that is the impression I got. Why?? I am sure she wants to protect her son, but to me there almost seems to be something more there.
 
For anyone who was a student at IU:

Think back to your days wandering around Bloomington as a student, before you had the intimate knowledge of Lauren's case and the video footage involved.

... Would the average undergrad student at IU be aware enough of the existing locations of cameras in downtown Bloomington (near SW, 5N, etc, etc) to avoid them if necessary? I myself seem to completely ignore the presence of security cams and if presented with an emergency situation where I needed to navigate throughout a downtown area without being caught on camera I would fail miserably. I would imagine this to be the case with many college students, but I could be wrong.

I know that LE reviewed footage of vehicles in the area and I don't recall them publicly releasing anything of interest other than the white truck which was later cleared. I'm not sure that I believe the POI's could have removed Lauren from the area via vehicle that morning without the vehicle being caught on camera. That's not to say it's impossible that LE overlooked something of interest.
 
akh said:
It depends on what the PI meant when he said that MB walked her to JR's 'making her his (JR's) problem'. I'm sure I'm paraphrasing but that is very close to what he said. Why was she a 'problem' at all? Poor choice of words on the PI's part or is there something deeper he didn't want to mention?

As far as not convincing her to stay at JR's.... the story is he tried. Supposedly, I believe he even said on record he thought she was going to stay on the couch... but then she decided to leave anyway. This is a place I differ with some of you... If this is true and she insisted on leaving then I don't know what he's supposed to do to stop her. He could've walked with her certainly, but if she wanted to go home, go some place else, or just leave with the destination unknown, in this day and age he could've been in plenty trouble trying to stop her (even if it was for her own good). So giving in an allowing her to leave doesn't strike me as being out of the norm at all.

The bigger question is 'could she leave on her own'. We don't have the evidence to answer that question and apparently LE doesn't either because I can't imagine this case not being further along if there existed evidence that she absolutely could not have left of her own accord (staggering or not).

Not walking with her also doesn't strike me as odd because they'd all lived in the area for some time. They were clearly used to walking and visiting in the area. I don't think they had any fear of their surroundings. I bet it never caused them any more concern to be on those streets and sidewalks than any of us have walking down the hallways in our homes. Maybe that was naive on their part, but not unusual.
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Agreed on most points. I would add that a second important question is why did he call the two particular individuals he did. DR, okay. Who is the second phone call? I have to believe that the second phone call is either irrelevant or someone they suspect might be involved.

Why wasn't HT called? HT was supposedly closer to JR at the time, or at least, was the link between JR and LS. Pure speculation, but it's possible that perhaps HT was going to be a third phone call, but then something happened. I just think the lack of a call to HT is weird. I think it's reasonable to assume that he likely didn't call or text HT later that night or the next day given HT didn't bother checking to see if LS was home before she went to class. Even a, "hey, let me know LS made it back" would have made him less suspect in my mind.

Maybe JR isn't close enough to JW to know his number, but could he have known a roommate of JW's that he might have called? I don't think the phone was answered or a message was left, but maybe JW could have pieced it together, who knows.
 
I recall that the phone records of the PsOI were checked and that the phone records were consistent with their stories. I no longer recall the source. But it seems that any communication to JW or his roommate(s) would have been investigated, particularly if they came from someone who was present for the SW altercation.
 
masootz said:
continuing on unclejohn and bessie's thoughts -

to me the two most likely scenarios are;

1) all three of them were involved in something heinous, thus the reason they've covered for each other, or

2) one of them is involved and the other ones (clueless to her disappearance) were covering for their own drug use and other illegal activities not related to her disappearance

i think #2 makes the most sense. if all three of them were involved then, as unclejohn said, if it weren't something awful they wouldn't have hidden a body, lied for two years, etc. if it were something awful that caused them to do that they just don't seem like the hardened criminal types who would be able to cover for each other for years. i guarantee one of those guys would have broken down and flipped on the other two to avoid getting in trouble. if they did something with her then they've spent every single day of the past two years knowing that eventually she'll be found. that seems like a lot of pressure to me especially for kids who seem to rely on their parents for everything.

then, like bessie said, you have a pretty good range of theories for each one of them individually having had a chance to do something. again, to me that makes more sense when you look at the fact that none of them have flipped on the others when they really could paint a picture of being innocent except being in the wrong place at the wrong time and blaming one (or more) of the others for whatever went down.
Click to expand...

I have definitely wondered about this too, especially with any out of town guests. Someone mentioned MB's changing storylines and how he was supposedly up doing a paper... I've always been critical of that too.

If it's a situation where LS was so messed up that someone took advantage of her, planning on telling her that either she was coming onto him in her inebriated state or claim he had no idea she didn't want, hopefully he has acted similarily or creepy enough around other girls and they have come forward, even if just to send an anonymous tip saying that ___ was acting weird/creepy and it made them uncomfortable. Anything small could be big.


LS may have taken a lot that night, knowingly or unknowingly, and, combined with a heart condition, I can easily see something happening during an experience like that. All of these boys and even JW or a random abductor would have had these opportunities. Again, JW and a random abductors would have had a much smaller timeframe to grab her. The 5N group (and even ZO & Co, I guess, but again, they would have had to be lurking) knew of her condition, knew where she was, etc so they would have had more time to decide to do it AND grab her individually, so it's definitely possible that one is responsible and the others are just nervous about the other stuff being found out, hence their weird stories. However, in that case, I hope the other two have noticed any weirdness and either have reported it or will. Again, probably not actionable, but at least the right people would be aware.



Unfortunately, I think that goes on a lot more than is acceptable in college and too often goes unreported. Girls aren't sure, they're made to feel like it was their fault for putting themselves in the situation, mutual friends might question them or not believe them, they don't want to cause problems in any organizations, etc.
 
Ros said:
I recall that the phone records of the PsOI were checked and that the phone records were consistent with their stories. I no longer recall the source. But it seems that any communication to JW or his roommate(s) would have been investigated, particularly if they came from someone who was present for the SW altercation.
Click to expand...

I agree. I was just putting it out there as a way that JW might have a connection to the night's events, without having to have him lurking around Bloomington or have other people, like ZO & Co. contacting him about the altercation and then again, he'd still probably have to be lurking outside of 5N, or LS having to leave 5N and make it to JW's. I don't think it's highly likely either though.

However, even if that were the case and it was investigated, I'm not sure that we (the public) would be privy to that.
 
Dixie811 said:
Still stewing over NW's comments. In her statements, she could have also urged the 5N boys to come forward with the truth about what happened to "the love of Jess'e life", but she doesn't. It seems that while she doesn't want Jesse bearing any blame or scrutiny for Lauren's disappearance, she also doesn't want ANYONE to have to take the blame. Except Lauren. The woman clearly has no desire for justice for Lauren. She seems to be saying- 'Just leave it alone! Drop it! Everyone stop talking about her and trying to find out what happened to her, it is her own fault now let's forget it!' At least that is the impression I got. Why?? I am sure she wants to protect her son, but to me there almost seems to be something more there.
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BBM
I don't think there needs to be anything more there than protecting her son. I am sure all the parents were concerned for Lauren at the beginning-secondary to protecting their own kids. But as time wore on and they came to believe that Lauren was gone I think it is only natural that they started to think of her disappearance with less and less sympathy and horror. Now they probably think about it as an "unfortunate incident" that is unfairly staining the future of their child. Every job that he applies for, every person he wants to date, heck! even strangers on the street- think that he was, at the worst, involved and at the best a horrible friend/person.

I also think that any parent, even if they truly believe that their child is innocent, fears that their child might be wrongly accused and convicted.

But I do think that these parents, despite their feelings about the situation, should have done a better job of supporting Lauren. I also think it is surprising they didn't have a lawyer or PR person write up a few sayings or responses (that sounded nice) to be used in interviews, etc. JMO JMO
 
There have been a lot of good posts that already say what I am thinking, but I want to add that I also found it incredibly disrespectful that after two years of silence, CR and and JW's family finally decided to speak up only to publicly accuse the Spierers of being 'liars' and to make public allegations about Lauren's drug use. Trying to present themselves as victims while blaming the only real victim in this case on the second anniversary of her disappearance is despicable.

While I don't expect anything more from CR, I can't figure out why the Wolffs would do this, or and why they would want to insert themselves into the spotlight in such a negative way. It's not like they were being hounded by the media. JW has hardly been mentioned all, and even we have left him pretty much alone -- They have the Spierers to thank for this, IMO, because despite JW doing some questionable things, many people followed their lead. In the beginning, when everyone was looking at "the boyfriend" and he left town, they defended him. When reporters asked about JW, they spoke highly of him and his relationship with Lauren. Even a year later, when it was obvious that they were puzzled by some of his actions, RS told a reporter that he was confident that JW had nothing to do with Lauren's disappearance. They have asked him to take an LE polygraph, and following their investigators, they have also implied that he has not been entirely forthcoming. Both of these things seem to be objectively true. So I think the Wolffs should have been clear about what they were accusing the Spierers of lying about, and if there isn't anything, they should be ashamed of this blatant attempt to garner sympathy, distract from the questions they won't answer, and discredit the Spierers and the authorities who are investigating Laurens case.

Why are they speaking for Jesse anyway? This past week I was reminded of the Steubenville case, where the parents made themselves and their children look like truly terrible people by blaming the victim and caring more about the reputations of their kids than getting justice for a girl who was raped. In this case though, we're not talking about kids. Jesse is an adult who is fully capable of speaking for himself. I mean, come on -- of course MB's mom thinks she has a good little boy who was at home writing papers all night. Of course JW's mom thinks that 'if he is guilty of anything, it's of "caring too much" about Lauren. Moms have a tendency to see the best in their children, which is usually a good thing, but at an extreme can be a kind of willful blindness. Happens all the time, especially when it comes to drugs.
 
Ros said:
I recall that the phone records of the PsOI were checked and that the phone records were consistent with their stories. I no longer recall the source. But it seems that any communication to JW or his roommate(s) would have been investigated, particularly if they came from someone who was present for the SW altercation.
Click to expand...

All parties in this case could afford the Triple Play package which includes TV, internet, and a home phone. Calls to a land-line can only be traced if they are trapped or tapped. A trap reveals who called. A tap let's LE listen in. Traps and taps require search warrants in advance of the crime being committed. I'm not so sure we can know who called who that night unless we can determine they did not have house phones.
Remember, a land-line is much more reliable then cellular service in the event of an emergency.
 
Sorry, I didn't post for a few days and now the rant is coming out! More to say on NW's comments:

As far as I'm concerned, whether or not Lauren did drugs is irrelevant. They shouldn't have brought it up, and the Spierers shouldn't be asked to comment on this. The only thing that is relevant, is what happened the night she went missing. I believe that there's a possibility she was drugged, and her friends say she was not a regular drug user. But even if she took drugs willingly, does it matter? It doesn't make her responsible for what others did to her, and her history doesn't make her more or less of a victim.

So Nadine Wolff's public statement that Lauren lost her life because she took drugs sends a terrible message. It takes attention off the crime, and puts the responsibility for what happened on Lauren. How about instead of blaming the victim we blame the people responsible for harming her, and any bystanders who did nothing to help her? How about we ask what others could have or should have done differently to prevent this from happening? Lets not forget how many people saw an incapacitated girl who couldn't walk or talk stumbling away from a bar with no shoes, or being dragged and carried away by CR.

Finally, if drugs are relevant, I think it's only insofar as they might relate to a motive or explain why people aren't talking. So, instead of bringing up summer camp years ago, why don't we talk about what drugs were actually around that night and where they came from? It seems people know the answers to these questions, since Jesse's roommate and friends of the POI knew exactly how many mgs of xanax Lauren had taken before anyone else did. (This was posted on PT days after she disappeared -- Did these people call in a tip or speak to LE?)

The Wolffs say their comments were to try to get the Spierers and the media to leave JW alone. But they must have known that publicly accusing the Spierers of lying and making allegations about Lauren's drug use would raise the same questions about JW. Since JW has not exactly been discreet about his own drug use, all this has done is make me wonder whether this is actually a preemptive response to something they know is going come out? Or are they just clueless... ?
 
Some of Lauren's girlfriends believe that bag of coke was planted in her room as part of a drug OD cover up. After all, they knew her very well and they knew nothing about this behavior.
And, if it was hers? Why didn't she take it to the party?
In August of 1011, Carl Saltzman told me himself that it was suspect that someone had entered Lauren's room to tamper with or plant evidence. Just wondering?
 
Dixie811 said:
Still stewing over NW's comments. In her statements, she could have also urged the 5N boys to come forward with the truth about what happened to "the love of Jess'e life", but she doesn't. It seems that while she doesn't want Jesse bearing any blame or scrutiny for Lauren's disappearance, she also doesn't want ANYONE to have to take the blame. Except Lauren. The woman clearly has no desire for justice for Lauren. She seems to be saying- 'Just leave it alone! Drop it! Everyone stop talking about her and trying to find out what happened to her, it is her own fault now let's forget it!' At least that is the impression I got. Why?? I am sure she wants to protect her son, but to me there almost seems to be something more there.
Click to expand...

Oops, I just read this, which is a more concise way of saying exactly what I was trying to get at. Could have just quoted and saved myself some time!
 
Some say it was five.
Some say it was ten.
Some say it was just one man.
Who set up Lauren Spierer
And made her disappear?
Will a lie detector
tell the truth
and set them free
of the taint of the conspiracy?
 
doubtingthomas said:
"Jesse always threatened to call and tell her parents and she said, 'If you do, I'll break up with you'."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/02/missing-student-boyfriend-family-fume/2382909/

Maybe he made one last threat and she broke it off. Hence her going to the Indy 500 with JR, CR, MB (and others) on May 29. Hence he makes his agent orange comment on FB on May 30. Hence 3 days later she is partying with JR, CR, MB (and others) again. Now she is missing. Any red flags here?
Click to expand...

The comment was from Major Payne starring Damon Wayans, a comedic film that came out during JW's childhood/adolescent years. Needless to say, JW was back burner for many and most thought he couldn't have done anything though statistics prove it's more than likely a significant other. That being said, regardless if he is guilty or not, his parents should have just said no comment! I'm sure he isn't too thrilled with his parents especially his mother with the renewed media exposure.
 
Jacobite said:
Some of Lauren's girlfriends believe that bag of coke was planted in her room as part of a drug OD cover up. After all, they knew her very well and they knew nothing about this behavior.
And, if it was hers? Why didn't she take it to the party?
In August of 1011, Carl Saltzman told me himself that it was suspect that someone had entered Lauren's room to tamper with or plant evidence. Just wondering?
Click to expand...

Wouldn't that be a short list of suspects to have planted anything in her apartment? And wouldn't JW have to be at the top of that list? Who would've had opportunity to plant something without their presence sending up redflags and/or creating more of a conspiracy angle? Sure a roommate could've done it but that now connects them as part of a conspiracy to coverup a crime. I can't see the 5N gang showing up at SW and planting anything.

And was the coke actually found in her room or with her stuff or was it simply found in the apartment and nobody else claimed it? And lastly, and importantly, is the coke find a reported fact or a rumor?

If it was her's you ask why she didn't take it to the party- Maybe she didn't want to share with several people. Maybe she feared losing it (no good place to carry/conceal it). And maybe retrieving the coke is why CR and LS were coming to her apartment (AFAIK it's never been publicly established why they came there in the first place... we can speculate of course... but then they both did leave after the altercation without (as far as we know) accomplishing anything at SW).

EDIT: If they were heading back to retrieve coke it would seemingly validate claims that she wasn't done partying as MB allegedly claimed. Which would then open up the possibility she left JR's not necessarily intending to head home in the first place.
 
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