IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #31

[VeryVeritas]

The map indicates everything mentioned in the Private Investigator's timeline along with the timeline released by the authorities.

Chuz, small request, can you identify the dumpster area behind 5N. This is where there was supposedly a cadaver dog hit. It is close to your proposed routes but slightly to the right enroute to 5N through the gravel lot.
Thanks

 

[VeryVeritas]

If they took that alley North of 10th & College 2 times, (like your map shows), they would have been on 3 cameras twice.

And maybe a 4th camera twice.
This is the cam on the South East side of 10th & College facing North

View of what the camera would see.

Why would LE omit those hard facts/details?

I'm not sure they can get into 10th & College to knock on someones door. I'll have to check that out...


BTW, you missed 2 cameras on your map.

Btown, Please clarify, are you suggesting here that if ZC is telling the truth that it appears CR carrying LS doubled back around the north side of 10th & College building to her apt? This being AFTER the last known video of LS falling in the Alley exiting to the gravel lot... Which would make the time somewhere around 3:00am (isn't that what ZC said? ) So from here they would have gone back through the gravel lot towards 5N... eating more time... or maybe again LS never even made it to 5N.

Also, you are saying that if this happened, that LE would have this on video, correct? And so, you ask why would they not disclose it? Well it's my understanding LE doesn't have to disclose evidence. Not sure why they would withhold this, but they certainly don't have to be public about it. Or if no route inside of the building then ZC is lying right? That's how it appears if they did not show up on camera.

 

[Chuz Life]

Chuz, small request, can you identify the dumpster area behind 5N. This is where there was supposedly a cadaver dog hit. It is close to your proposed routes but slightly to the right enroute to 5N through the gravel lot.
Thanks

Absolutely.

I'm working on the map right now- adding direction arrows and the cameras that Btown mentioned. I'll add the dumpster to the list.

 

[AbbeyR]

No Abbey.

I'm talking about the map in post #261.

That map shows point by point (Starting at #1) the Police timeline and the timeline which was created from Bo Dietl's video.

I see that post, but no map. Is this just me?

 

[Chuz Life]

I see that post, but no map. Is this just me?

That's strange.

If you click on my profile, do you see the folder I created marked "Lauren Spierer Images?"

You can view the maps there as well.

 

[bx2]

I see that post, but no map. Is this just me?

Pretty sure there is some confusion afoot here. I think the part of the map being referred to can be seen in Btown's post #262, but was edited to include the 2 cameras not included on the original, which is no longer visible.

This isn't Btown's map, as I think VV believes from post #281.

A few additonal comments that I hope will get everyone on the same page:

-there is "Tenth & College Apartments" and "Tenth & College Village", the shorthand for these dwellings that comes up here can often times lead to confusion.

-Zoe Camp's apartment is marked on there even though it is unknown which of the 2 main doors it is near

-there is no camera that covers the stairwell near the clock on the SE corner of the T&C Apts.

-Lohud flash video says they knocked on ZC door, Lohud ZC article says they rang, the same author of the article is the person talking, I'd consider the method of how they tried to contact ZC unknown to the public from that difference. However, in the video, the PI does indicate one minute elapsed from entering T&C to the door opening and CR/LS emerging.

-Lohud flash video is edited poorly. Abbey helpfully transcribed the key parts of the path [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7997448&postcount=585"]here[/ame] and I critiqued it here:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7997946&postcount=588"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7997946&postcount=588[/ame]. I believe that the sloppy way they patched together events at Tenth & College Apartments mistakenly make it sound like there were two occasions in which they were there.

 

[monkey222]

How do you know that the news report got it wrong? Source, please?

I was working from memory of early on in this case. I will have to research. I just recall that the Sat story had wrong date.

 

[AbbeyR]

Thanks Chuz, I can see the pics through your profile and will check out the new map and timeline.

And yes, Bx2, I was just thinking about that post yesterday, remembering the part about the soundclip replaying twice "So then Lauren and Corey headed up an alleyway" -- confusing! Glad you linked back to it, there's some good observations there, since we are relying on this account. Good eye (/ear?) for detail.

 

[akh]

But, just like it was with the truck... they have made us privy to the timeline and the recorded times.

So, why would they correct themselves on the truck information and not on the timeline itself?

Because they aren't interested in the public's help except for someone with direct knowledge would be my guess. The public piecing info together and finding a smoking a gun doesn't seem to be something they feel is in the best interest of solving the case or preserving the case for prosecution for some future point.

In the case of the truck, they had to basically inform the public because-
A: They'd found the truck and didn't need any more leads/tips about it
B: They wanted the public to know the truck/driver had been cleared to also limit leads/tips about any white trucks and move the focus elsewhere.

I don't think they corrected it because they'd made a mistake per se'.

 

[Jacobite]

Right, based on BPD timeline and approx speed Chuz came up with based on the public distances involved, even if CR picked Lauren up (at SW and tried to run to 10th & College, they would scarcely have more than 3 minutes.

So I'm trying to understand: Are ZC and the Bar Manager liars?

I doubt the detectives would include them if they were liars. Perhaps the bar witness saw Lauren hit her head on 10th Street, not College. And, I doubt they could get in the building at
2:48 AM.
Perhaps Corey rang Zoe from his cell while sitting on the steps. The police find this from his record and on camera. Now, it all fits in the timeline.

As for cadavor dogs finding a scent on top and beside the dumpster, cadavor scent is not specific to one person who has died. The dog would not know who died. Could be Tallboy or anyone.


But when you add in a tracking dog losing her lve scent nearby. This looks bad.

 

[masootz]

Because they aren't interested in the public's help except for someone with direct knowledge would be my guess. The public piecing info together and finding a smoking a gun doesn't seem to be something they feel is in the best interest of solving the case or preserving the case for prosecution for some future point.

In the case of the truck, they had to basically inform the public because-
A: They'd found the truck and didn't need any more leads/tips about it
B: They wanted the public to know the truck/driver had been cleared to also limit leads/tips about any white trucks and move the focus elsewhere.

I don't think they corrected it because they'd made a mistake per se'.

i also think in a lot of these cases le isn't eager to give too much info simply because it would look bad if some yahoos on websleuths solved a crime that le couldn't solve. imo that's more of the reality than the silly notion often said at news conferences that they don't want to "endanger an investigation" or whatever. sure, if you've got a suspect and a murder weapon and are trying to piece the last bits together i can see witholding information, but years after someone goes missing i can't fathom a legitimate reason you wouldn't want more eyes on whatever info you have.

 

[masootz]

regarding the posts about cameras, are these pictures and accompanying information from when she went missing or more recent? i remember a discussion months back about new cameras having been installed at certain locations, etc.i just want to make sure we're talking about cameras that were there in june 2011.

 

[Jacobite]

I don't believe any video evidence exists that challenges Jay's account. I think it is the dogs that cause a problem.

 

[Jupiter812]

Pretty sure there is some confusion afoot here. I think the part of the map being referred to can be seen in Btown's post #262, but was edited to include the 2 cameras not included on the original, which is no longer visible.

This isn't Btown's map, as I think VV believes from post #281.

A few additonal comments that I hope will get everyone on the same page:

-there is "Tenth & College Apartments" and "Tenth & College Village", the shorthand for these dwellings that comes up here can often times lead to confusion.

-Zoe Camp's apartment is marked on there even though it is unknown which of the 2 main doors it is near

-there is no camera that covers the stairwell near the clock on the SE corner of the T&C Apts.

-Lohud flash video says they knocked on ZC door, Lohud ZC article says they rang, the same author of the article is the person talking, I'd consider the method of how they tried to contact ZC unknown to the public from that difference. However, in the video, the PI does indicate one minute elapsed from entering T&C to the door opening and CR/LS emerging.

-Lohud flash video is edited poorly. Abbey helpfully transcribed the key parts of the path here and I critiqued it here:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7997946&postcount=588. I believe that the sloppy way they patched together events at Tenth & College Apartments mistakenly make it sound like there were two occasions in which they were there.

Yes, and this quote from the PI tells me that they were either observed by a witness or recorded by camera:

“A minute later the door opening and them going back down and him helping her with that kind of slung across his back.”

 

[Chuz Life]

regarding the posts about cameras, are these pictures and accompanying information from when she went missing or more recent? i remember a discussion months back about new cameras having been installed at certain locations, etc.i just want to make sure we're talking about cameras that were there in june 2011.

Btowns pictures and their locations indicated on my map/ timeline are to show the camera locations as they were found less than a month after Lauren's disappearance.

 

[Jacobite]

Yes, and this quote from the PI tells me that they were either observed by a witness or recorded by camera:

“A minute later the door opening and them going back down and him helping her with that kind of slung across his back.”

This is strange. They obviously weren't looking for help. They had just passed up chances to get help. This visit to Zoe's makes it appear that someone was looking for another party.

All of these conflicting clues do make your head spin.

 

[AbbeyR]

MC: And that's where we have a female witness who was leaving, uh, visiting a boy. She's not a college student, she's a little bit older. And she observed the young girl, which we now know to be Lauren, to tip over, while she was sitting on the top step, and hit her head on the concrete. And the boy was sitting a step or two below her.

BD:: And it was loud enough to for her to hear--

MC: You could hear the thud

BD: The thud of her head, yeah.

SC: So Lauren and Corey headed up an alleyway from there and Lauren is seen falling face first to the ground, hitting her head. She didn't even put up her hands to block herself. Corey helped her to her feet and then just a few steps later she crumbled again to the ground. And again, Corey helps her up and they head up the street. So Lauren and Corey headed up an alleyway from there and head into an apartment building at Tenth and College and knock on the door of four girls who were partying with them earlier in the night, but no one's home.

MC: A minute later, the door opening and them going back down and him helping her with that, kinda slung across his back.

Reading this over again makes it so clear that Lauren really was in terrible shape. I always think about the one report of her falling, but she fell several times and obviously could not walk herself:

- She fell on the floor at Smallwood coming out of the elevator, and CR carried her out.

- Then the witness sees and hears her tip over and smack her head on the concrete

- Then she gets up and falls flat on her face without putting her hands up to break her fall

- Then she 'crumbles to the ground' again.

This is all in how many minutes?...

It also seems like the Lohud video deliberately edits out the source -- i.e., whether she was seen by the witness and/or video at ZC's. That's why the wording is so awkward and might also be the reason for adding in the repeat soundclip. Perhaps LE and the PI's don't want the POI to know exactly when and where they have them on video...?

 

[Jupiter812]

Reading this over again makes it so clear that Lauren really was in terrible shape. I always think about the one report of her falling, but she fell several times and obviously could not walk herself:

- She fell on the floor at Smallwood coming out of the elevator, and CR carried her out.

- Then the witness sees and hears her tip over and smack her head on the concrete

- Then she gets up and falls flat on her face without putting her hands up to break her fall

- Then she 'crumbles to the ground' again.

This is all in how many minutes?...

It also seems like the Lohud video deliberately edits out the source -- i.e., whether she was seen by the witness and/or video at ZC's. That's why the wording is so awkward and might also be the reason for adding in the repeat soundclip. Perhaps LE and the PI's don't want the POI to know exactly when and where they have them on video...?

Absolutely I believe they deliberately edited it that way.

 

[Jacobite]

Absolutely I believe they deliberately edited it that way.

Isn't there also a 10th street entrance to the building? Near the alley.

 

[Jacobite]

Reading this over again makes it so clear that Lauren really was in terrible shape. I always think about the one report of her falling, but she fell several times and obviously could not walk herself:

- She fell on the floor at Smallwood coming out of the elevator, and CR carried her out.

- Then the witness sees and hears her tip over and smack her head on the concrete

- Then she gets up and falls flat on her face without putting her hands up to break her fall

- Then she 'crumbles to the ground' again.

This is all in how many minutes?...

It also seems like the Lohud video deliberately edits out the source -- i.e., whether she was seen by the witness and/or video at ZC's. That's why the wording is so awkward and might also be the reason for adding in the repeat soundclip. Perhaps LE and the PI's don't want the POI to know exactly when and where they have them on video...?

I'm sure these falls are all on camera too. Corey seems oblivious to the obvious.
The party is over when the girl can't walk or talk. But, perhaps this is just how he wanted her.

So, now it is claimed that he had her alone in his apartment for half an hour before Mike showed up. And, it has been reported by witnesses that he was showing inappropriate affection when Lauren wanted him to cut it out.
She thought she was out partying with a buddy. The fun funny guy from the 500.
She was not looking for a new boyfriend.