IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #31

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Jupiter812 said:
ZC and/or her roommates could have heard the buzzer (and looked at the time) then put 2 and 2 together when the timeline was reported.
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AbbeyR said:
Just bumping up an old article...



http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=85908

Signs or no signs, people aren't going to forget about Lauren, and this case isn't going away.
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And we will all make sure of that!!!

But, I do think, as long as she's still missing, why take down the signs, bad for "business" I guess, which I find disgusting. I'm hoping that those signs are continuous reminders to not forget Lauren and be safe and know who your real friends are.
 
Certainly there were multiple persons strolling to and fro Kilroys, other bars, eventually to their homes, etc. during that time frame...we need to be mindful that some if not most strolling home after last call are probably not in the best shape either..hence..clouded memory the next day..or dulled senses of surroundings.
 
I wasn't sure! I just kept seeing the video brought up when someone mentioned the witness/bar manager. Does anyone have a list of all of the names of the persons who saw LS that night? Not just people named POIs.
 
Following up on my post from last night...

Jacobite: I agree that it's kind of "like she vanished into thin air after the last camera". That's why I was looking at the period leading up to 2:51 for any clues that might suggest what happened afterward. Seems to me that the 5N boys had something to do with what happened after 2:51 - or JR and MB and their statements wouldn't be part of the story. But there is no actual evidence after 2:51 and not much left to speculate about until there is.

AbbeyR: Thanks for the correction about not getting kicked out of Kilroys - I had missed that. If they left of their own free will, that changes the dynamic of that transition quite a bit in my mind. I had assumed that her shoes and phone were a casualty of being ejected. This suggests that they were lost or forgotten due to inebriation. Or, I wonder if they left in haste due to hassles from other patrons?

Jupiter812: I think we agree but I did not express myself clearly. When I wrote about her buzz going over the top I meant it in the sense that it went out of control - from a happy, fun, party buzz to an incoherent, stumbling, blackout buzz - from hyper- to hypo-.

Chuz Life: Thanks for your extensive and detailed annotation and corrections. The careful parsing and compiling of the available evidence that you have been doing is very useful.

On the other hand, I think that we need to be very skeptical about ALL of the evidence that is available to us out here on the internet. We don't have access to the security camera images and video. We don't have the ability to interview witnesses or PoIs. The evidence we have access to is all 2nd or 3rd or 4th hand or worse, and much of it may well have come originally from those with a vested interest in the case. Even the best and most reliable accounts can be problematic due to differing interpretations of incomplete evidence and the imprecision of language used to describe that evidence.

My $0.02,
- John
 
AbbeyR said:
It has nothing to do with the witness. It is a bad video of people who are not even POI at a party.

I think it's offline, but you could try searching for it here - it was linked at some point, but IMO, it's not relevant to this case at all.
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It very well could be relevant, it has AB (ZO roommate) at a party with older people, and an older woman comes on to him, and starts kissing him. It places these "kids" with older druggies, could be the bar mgr., thus giving
a reason for the false testimony IMO bar mgr is giving. Someone posted that video, maybe this was someone coming forward with a clue.

As Hometown Hoosier pointed out, at this time of night, parties were breaking up, parties that could have hosted a perp.
 
Ixchel13 said:
It very well could be relevant, it has AB (ZO roommate) at a party with older people, and an older woman comes on to him, and starts kissing him. It places these "kids" with older druggies, could be the bar mgr., thus giving
a reason for the false testimony IMO bar mgr is giving. Someone posted that video, maybe this was someone coming forward with a clue.

As Hometown Hoosier pointed out, at this time of night, parties were breaking up, parties that could have hosted a perp.
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- - -
I am curious to know where the bar manager parked that night when visiting the younger male at 10th & College Apt's.
Perhaps the gravel lot?
Wouldn't this be off-camera?
 
Didn't they just say she was visiting a boy -- Did they specify where? Some reports seem to suggest she may have driven by in her car and then looped around, others that she was walking. Did the PIs say what building she was in?
 
Ixchel13 said:
It very well could be relevant, it has AB (ZO roommate) at a party with older people, and an older woman comes on to him, and starts kissing him. It places these "kids" with older druggies, could be the bar mgr., thus giving
a reason for the false testimony IMO bar mgr is giving. Someone posted that video, maybe this was someone coming forward with a clue.

As Hometown Hoosier pointed out, at this time of night, parties were breaking up, parties that could have hosted a perp.
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I believe I saw the same video you are referring to but I remember it much differently. The video I saw is not a party with "older people" it is a group of undergrad student age kids with one man and one woman who appear to be in their early 30's. No indication that they are druggies.

The woman hair stylist who walked home about the same time Lauren was supposedly in the area said it was a quiet night and very few people were around. Since she was there, I'm going with her statement.
 
Jupiter..Thx..In my mind I was thinking hair stylist was the one that saw LS slumped on pointy side burns mystery man s back..No? Is hair stylist and older bar manager visiting younger man..not the same person?
 
No, not the same person, Monkey222.

Kelly Wold, a 20-year-old employee of the Les Champs Elysees spa and salon, was walking alone in a striped sundress on 11th Street at 3:45 a.m. She was on her way home after a night drinking with friends. She walked right past 5 North Townhomes -- by Rossman's place, by Rosenbaum's. She didn't see Spierer. But she probably passed within 10 feet of where Spierer was last seen with friends. Wold's own roommate came in by herself at 4:20.

It was a warm night and not a bad one for walking, Wold recalls. But it was also quieter than most. Often, at 3:45 a.m., people are still partying with their front doors open. Not on the early morning of June 3. It was quiet.
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http://www.indystar.com/article/20110626/LOCAL/106260358?nclick_check=1

(quoted here: http://refugeesunleashed.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=26095&start=125)
 
Jupiter812 said:
I believe I saw the same video you are referring to but I remember it much differently. The video I saw is not a party with "older people" it is a group of undergrad student age kids with one man and one woman who appear to be in their early 30's. No indication that they are druggies.

The woman hair stylist who walked home about the same time Lauren was supposedly in the area said it was a quiet night and very few people were around. Since she was there, I'm going with her statement.
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My only problem with this is that if you go by the timeline from the police then LS wouldn't have been outside at that time for the salon employee to have seen her. That is if she actually was at CR or JRs. If she wasn't there she still would have been along the path she took in the alley which is dark and would have been hard to see if you were walking on 11th street and looking down the alley. If something tragic did happen in the alley I would say all of the people involved had probably scattered by the time the salon employee walked by.
Just a thought. Trying to brainstorm
 
AbbeyR said:
No, not the same person, Monkey222.



http://www.indystar.com/article/20110626/LOCAL/106260358?nclick_check=1

(quoted here: http://refugeesunleashed.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=26095&start=125)
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Kelly Wold, aged TWENTY, was walking home at 3:45 a.m. alone after a night of drinking with friends.. She felt it was a quiet night. She was an under aged,
probably drunk statistic waiting to happen.
Actually, I have met Kelly several times because she came in for lunch where I worked at 10th and College. Very nice girl, but again, after a night of drinking, how accurate are her perceptions?
 
hometownhoosier said:
My only problem with this is that if you go by the timeline from the police then LS wouldn't have been outside at that time for the salon employee to have seen her. That is if she actually was at CR or JRs. If she wasn't there she still would have been along the path she took in the alley which is dark and would have been hard to see if you were walking on 11th street and looking down the alley. If something tragic did happen in the alley I would say all of the people involved had probably scattered by the time the salon employee walked by.
Just a thought. Trying to brainstorm
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The point of bringing this up in the first place was not to try to determine if Kelly could have seen Lauren. It was to get a sense of the overall level of party activity and people in the streets. Kelly said it was quiet. Fortunately, this can be easily corroborated. So once again, I'm going with Kelly's statement.
 
CoolJ said:
I think "quiet" is relative in a college town. When comparing it to a Saturday night in September, yes a Thursday in June may SEEM quiet in comparison. Doesn't mean streets are empty by any means.
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Also "thirsty Thursday" is a big deal here in Bloomington as well. She was walking on one of the furthest streets from the downtown bars anyways. It usually is pretty quiet once you get passed Smallwood on any night. Well it was the last couple years until the newest apartment complex on 11th was finished this year. I went out to the bars on New Years and we got a hotel room right
down the street from Smallwood. Even on New Years which was a big party night it wasn't loud or crazy up near Smallwood or north of Smallwood. Just like you mentioned though, it definitely doesn't mean the streets were empty. I live in Bloomington, I go out with friends a lot, and I don't care what night it is there are always people out and about no matter how late it is.
 
Another question I have... Was it ever confirmed anywhere that Cadavar Dogs were actually brought in on the investigation? The only thing I can find is about a psychic who brought her 2 dogs, and they both hit on the same location at desperate times. When the police and LS parents were notified ther parents asked for the police to bring in dogs to verify, but (according to the psychic) the police refused and said they already brought dogs in that hit in the same location as well. Apparently the LE had not informed LS parents about this until this occasion with the psychic. All of this is what the psychic had posted on her Facebook.
 
Jupiter812 said:
This is not a small thing; furthermore, the getting a "buzz on" and the buzz going over the top is not accurate. In fact, she was going in the opposite direction, hypo- not hyper-.
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And the extension of this is as she slides downhill you have MB's incredibly out of sync account portraying hyper+ and JR's more moderate account both of which don't fit the known pattern.
 
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