IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #34

[akh]

One of my first thoughts was if he was involved with the LS disappearance, and there has been no sign of her, why wouldn't he take this body to the same undiscovered location. But then I realized trying to apply logic to the mind of whatever this person is, may not be the wisest investigatory tactic.

But would that really be the logical thing he would do? Or would it be more logical he'd never visit that exact spot ever again, for any reason?

It does make you wonder though, and we aren't yet privy to any other biological evidence left at the scene, but if he doesn't leave the cell phone are investigators scratching their head and relying on her friends to come forward with info? If nothing else, it did drive home the possibility that someone may be out at nights looking for an easy mark.

It really does drive that point home and it does make you wonder what the theory (ies) would be if that phone wasn't there. Even with DNA evidence found (if there was any) I don't recall anything in his laundry list of past crimes that would necessarily mean there would be a sample of DNA in the database to compare any found at the crime scene to him. Fingerprints you'd expect would be, but that would assume he left any.

 

[jamicat]

Ive always thought Lauren could have been picked up by anyone that night and she was in no shape to even defend herself. I have a strong feeling this may be the break that's needed to solve Lauren's case.

I think what happened here shows what could have happened to Lauren, not necessarily what did. There are any number of creeps out there who will take advantage of someone weaker. I was closely following the Hannah Graham case, (another Hannah), and it's just too clear to me that there are predators out there. The Spierers, their PIs, their supporter, LE have put the spotlight on her company that night because the chances are definitely that her "friends", and the last ones to see here were the ones who disposed of her, but life doesn't always go by the odds. There are also those who do get picked up by dangerous perverts who just happened to be there when the helpless and confused victims are ripe for the picking. Had just one clearly uninvolved person just happened to have seen Laura making her way home as JR said she was, the suspicions would not have been as strongly on those students last with her.

I also believe that the Spierer are and have been operating under deep hurt and resentment as to how their most precious daughter, really just a sprite of woman, was treated by those young men. Unchivalrous is the best one can say about those creatures who just left a "friend" the way they did Lauren, in her condition. Then refusing to cooperate fully for fear of implicating selves more, though frankly, most anyone who is in the know about law and police matters would agree that what they did was the smartest path to take, and I would bet the Spierers would have so advised their daughters to do, had they gotten so implicated in such a situation where it was very possible they would be suspects. Those familes were all cut from the exact same cloth. but the Spierers were unlucky enough that their child was on the victim side of this.

 

[monkey222]

Her body was discovered by passerby and reported to LE before her roommates even realised she was missing, from what I read from the HW thread (unless I am getting this all wrong). This perp worked fast. His past arrest for holding girlfriend against her will in apt really bothers me, in relation to solving LS's case. I feel this perp could have held LS somewhere. I HOPE that LE is interviewing all his aquaintences, family, all, in hope that some off comment was made re:LS dissappearance. Certainly him and trivia crowd talk, small town, summer nights...hoping they recall something.

 

[ontheclock]

These cases do have some odd similarities. In fact enough that it gets hard to overlook them all as coincidences.

There had been so little activity with the LS case that I'd been tempted to ask if such a lack of activity had anyone rethinking their former positions and theories. But then there was the recent case review that added a couple of new pieces to the narrative and it seemed to fuel the same suspicions as before so I never asked the question.

But in light of this recent case, and in context of nothing seemingly actually happening with PsOI from 5N, JW, or Smallwood, is anyone reevaluating their former thoughts on this case? I realize it's early and much missing from this new case, but for me I have to increase the odds right now of random abduction in the LS case from where I would've previously put them.

I've never been able to get off the fence for any theory in Lauren's case. I'd waffle to one side for a minute, but all options remained (and still remain) open.

Lots of creepy guys know exactly where to look for vulnerable ladies, especially near college campuses.

 

[Jacobite]

Kilroy Sports Bar and the wee hours of a Friday Morning are just two things these cases have in common. I think another sweet girl paid a terrible price so that anyone would have a clue concerning the Lauren Spierer case. Hannah clawed and scratched her killer and left marks on his arms. Perhaps Lauren did so as well. Maybe someone needed medical care on June 3 2011.

 

[akh]

Her body was discovered by passerby and reported to LE before her roommates even realised she was missing, from what I read from the HW thread (unless I am getting this all wrong).

The next morning, a woman called 911 at 8:34 to report finding a young woman’s body in a grassy area off Plum Creek Road Road near Ind. 45. The victim, wearing black stretch pants, a gray sweater and Converse Chuck Taylor tennis shoes, had significant head injuries and there was blood splattered around the body.
Indiana State Police Detective Michael Robbins called the Bloomington Police Department, after viewing the body, to ask if any women had been reported missing. He learned they had just received a report from Wilson’s Gamma Phi Beta sorority sisters that she had not returned home.

It sounds like the timing of the missing person's report and the finding of the body are very close but as I read it, by the time the State Police are involved, the BPD have the missing person report already active.

 

[imkeylime]

These cases do have some odd similarities. In fact enough that it gets hard to overlook them all as coincidences.

There had been so little activity with the LS case that I'd been tempted to ask if such a lack of activity had anyone rethinking their former positions and theories. But then there was the recent case review that added a couple of new pieces to the narrative and it seemed to fuel the same suspicions as before so I never asked the question.

But in light of this recent case, and in context of nothing seemingly actually happening with PsOI from 5N, JW, or Smallwood, is anyone reevaluating their former thoughts on this case? I realize it's early and much missing from this new case, but for me I have to increase the odds right now of random abduction in the LS case from where I would've previously put them.

I've always been open to considering random abductors, including locals hanging out at the Waffle House or out-of-towners visiting Bloomington for some event (I believe there was one going on). The problem, IMO, is that you have CR saying nothing due to amnesia (I can even buy him having short-term amnesia, TBH) and JR saying that he saw someone in the shadows "intercept" (maybe not his term but a reporter's?) LS. What are we supposed to gather from those types of statements? Also, if LS did indeed leave CR and MB's like MB supposedly told neighbor VS, a random abduction would have made sense to me. But MB's story changed, too. And then there was JW's parents' interesting interview blaming LS for having a drug habit. This is the problem with the POIs, IMO. They have done little to discourage themselves from being POIs. If DM was indeed involved in LS' disappearance, he could be who JR saw lurking in the shadows. It would be very useful to know if DM was indeed at Sports the night LS disappeared.

I know we would all welcome any scenario that brings closure to the Spierers, FWIW. I agree there are similarities here, as in the cases of Hannah Graham and Morgan Harrington. If DM was involved, it's too bad JR didn't take that extra step or look around the corner (or perhaps he's not being truthful and just wanted to displace suspicion?). JMO.

 

[4 Free Speech]

According to this transcript the link was the cell phone and it's data.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWr7o7BgOpc


Female Anchor: A big developing story tonight, the murder of IU senior, Hannah Wilson. The man accused of killing her has faced a Judge today as we hear evidence against him for the first time. Now Police commenting about similarities between this case and the disappearance of Lauren Spire. Let's start with that chilling evidence.
Male Anchor: RTV6 reporter, Jack Reinhardt is live outside the Brown County Courthouse with today's latest developments. Jack?
Jack: Daniel Messel actually led Indiana State Police investigators to his very doorstep, that's because he apparently accidentally dropped his cell phone at the crime scene and during the forensic examination State Police investigators learned that Messel had used that same cell phone in 2012 to place a call to State Police.
Male Voice Over: Daniel Messel had little to say during his brief fifteen minute initial hearing but the evidence gathered by State Police speaks volumes about the case, including his cell phone discovered Friday morning at the victim's feet at the Lake Lemon crime scene. Witnesses say that Messel failed to return to his Bloomington home late Thursday night and failed to go to work on Friday morning. State Police picked up a report of a missing IU co ed, obtained a photo of the missing Hanna Wilson. The coroner's office made a positive identification, saying the victim had suffered at least four blows to the head that crushed her skull.
Ted: I'll make a quick, brief comment out of respect for the victim and the victim's family. We will remain out of respect for the judicial process, the investigation is ongoing and I will stand on our press release which is available at my office. We are back here on May 15th for a bond hearing and we'll continue our investigation. Thank you.
Jack: Messel said that he was broke so the Judge appointed a public defender. He appears in court next month for a bail hearing. He has a July jury trial. Ironically, Messel's initial hearing was conducted by video conference in a room that also serves as a chapel in the Brown County Jail. Messel, during that initial hearing sat in front of a wall with a cross painted on it with the words, "God forgives." Reporting live in Brown County, Jack Reinhardt, RTV6.

 

[Ixchel13]

We want the two cases to be connected. When LS first went missing, I was sure it was a random abduction because of the area
and knowing for certain that predators do lurk in these places waiting for some girl to get separated from her friends.
IMO, the two cases are not "eerily" similar, but predictably
similar. Out with friends, separated from friends, not sober enough to protect yourself, friends not having your back all the way home., friends not sober enough to realize how much help you needed.
Lauren leaving her phone behind, or whatever happened to her phone, is not the same as a killer leaving his phone at the crime scene.
akh asks if anyone wants to revise their opinions of the POIs,
I say, not yet. If the POIs are not guilty, it would be a relief
of sorts. Hannah's friends watched her into a cab, and this is confirmed. Not so with Lauren's "friends".
As much as I want this creep to also be guilty in LS's case,
I must repeat what I've said all along: there are more people just like Messel out there in BTown just waiting for a lamb to get separated from the fold. It usually results in rape, not murder.
But out there they are. Bloomington night life has become
increasingly seedy and downright dangerous for a woman alone,
this cannot be stressed enough.

 

[Ixchel13]

also, all the way up to her supposedly leaving JR's, Lauren had encounters with friends, the altercation at SW, on camera, trying to get into ZC's apt, up to 5N and MB, then JR.

with Hannah, totally different. How does one get tucked into a cab, with an exact address given and witnessed by friends, an address a mere two minutes by car and then end up all the way by Lake Lemon?
IMO, this was personal. He must have known where she lived and just waited after Trivia for her to come home. He must have been at Yogi's before that night and saw her leave and followed her.
When they say blood splatter they mean a blow occurred. So it sounds like the first blow came in his car. And on his side of the car, which is weird. That shows she was fighting him right away, like Micky fought BSL. Also, she was alive at the crime scene, as blood won't splatter when someone is already dead.
So, he knocked her unconscious as she was fighting him in the car. Just like Micky. But she came alive at the crime scene, just like Micky. And then he killed her violently w/o sexual assault. just as BSL claims about Micky. If he does confess to Lauren's demise, it will surprise me but I hope it will not deter the death penalty like it did in Micky's case. Guy needs to fry, sorry but this whole thing unnerves me and just cries for retribution.

 

[bx2]

Brighton called Messel opinionated and one to get fixated on current events, politics and high-profile crime and missing-person cases.
Amanda Knox. Casey Anthony. Lauren Spierer.
“Apparently, he was, like, obsessed with the Lauren Spierer case,” he said.

Monday afternoon, he recalled the night the Indiana University men's basketball team defeated Kentucky in a buzzer-beater a few years ago. Messel told him a story about driving downtown into the celebratory fray, picking up a random drunken female and giving her a ride home.

Maybe these are the things you remember after the fact, but hmmmm.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/ne...cle_3dc2f836-e142-5775-af56-6c0d43bbe99f.html

 

[imkeylime]

We want the two cases to be connected. When LS first went missing, I was sure it was a random abduction because of the area
and knowing for certain that predators do lurk in these places waiting for some girl to get separated from her friends.
IMO, the two cases are not "eerily" similar, but predictably
similar. Out with friends, separated from friends, not sober enough to protect yourself, friends not having your back all the way home., friends not sober enough to realize how much help you needed.
Lauren leaving her phone behind, or whatever happened to her phone, is not the same as a killer leaving his phone at the crime scene.
akh asks if anyone wants to revise their opinions of the POIs,
I say, not yet. If the POIs are not guilty, it would be a relief
of sorts. Hannah's friends watched her into a cab, and this is confirmed. Not so with Lauren's "friends".
As much as I want this creep to also be guilty in LS's case,
I must repeat what I've said all along: there are more people just like Messel out there in BTown just waiting for a lamb to get separated from the fold. It usually results in rape, not murder.
But out there they are. Bloomington night life has become
increasingly seedy and downright dangerous for a woman alone,
this cannot be stressed enough.

Predictably similar is a good description. Also, the POIs are such to me because because they haven't convinced me they're not ... in fact, they've pretty much done the opposite. I feel bad for Hannah's friends, who apparently did the right thing but it still ended badly.

Re: wanting the two cases to be connected: Also agreed. Every time a child killer was apprehended in the Midwest, people in Oakland County, MI, seemed to collectively let out a sigh of relief, thinking the Oakland County Child Killer had been caught. Sadly, it always came to naught. I'm not saying that will happen here, just that it's really natural to want justice and closure.

 

[imkeylime]

Maybe these are the things you remember after the fact, but hmmmm.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/ne...cle_3dc2f836-e142-5775-af56-6c0d43bbe99f.html

Thanks for sharing this ... I can't access the entire article, but the bit about being "obsessed" is pretty creepy (as is him giving anybody a ride home, of course).

 

[Ixchel13]

Maybe these are the things you remember after the fact, but hmmmm.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/ne...cle_3dc2f836-e142-5775-af56-6c0d43bbe99f.html

very interestng, although it takes a subscription to read the whole story. He picked up the random female two years ago. Then escalated,.Was obsessed with LS case...sounds more like a copycat. Testing the waters, then thinking, well if they got away with it, why can't I? For one thing, not the same intellect, nor the same $$$$, and no team of lawyers guiding his every move.

 

[Ixchel13]

freaked out, going to bed and wondering just what kind of city, the city I love and want to stay in, I'm actually living in? And for that matter, why is life itself becoming so cheap universally?

 

[Jmoose]

This sounds like reasonable doubt if any of Lauren's "friends" ever end up on trial for her murder. However, when I heard about Messel this morning, it made me think of the case down in Virginia with another Hannah-and that maybe there is a chance of both finding Lauren and solving the case eventually

 

[Ros]

Boogeyman must have some level of intellect. .maybe..if he is in trivia contests. God forbid if he has been a poster or lurker on WS. But, in my experience of bar trivia nerds, his fellow trivia team players will have some inkling of what lies beneath. Just awaitin'...

Wonder if he posted on PT, or in the HT or IDS comments...

 

[imkeylime]

freaked out, going to bed and wondering just what kind of city, the city I love and want to stay in, I'm actually living in? And for that matter, why is life itself becoming so cheap universally?

Ixchel, I hope you feel a little better this morning (and got some sleep). I understand how you feel ... it's tough to have this happen in your backyard. But as you yourself noted, it's not an isolated problem. And FWIW, the bad in a few can bring out the best in many. I bet you'll see that around you in the coming weeks as well.

 

[Momoffourboys]

FYI There was just a report on CBS (NY local channel) about the new possible developments in Lauren's case and that LE is investigating the possibilty of a connection.

*Long Island local here!

 

[imkeylime]

also, all the way up to her supposedly leaving JR's, Lauren had encounters with friends, the altercation at SW, on camera, trying to get into ZC's apt, up to 5N and MB, then JR.

with Hannah, totally different. How does one get tucked into a cab, with an exact address given and witnessed by friends, an address a mere two minutes by car and then end up all the way by Lake Lemon?
IMO, this was personal. He must have known where she lived and just waited after Trivia for her to come home. He must have been at Yogi's before that night and saw her leave and followed her.
When they say blood splatter they mean a blow occurred. So it sounds like the first blow came in his car. And on his side of the car, which is weird. That shows she was fighting him right away, like Micky fought BSL. Also, she was alive at the crime scene, as blood won't splatter when someone is already dead.
So, he knocked her unconscious as she was fighting him in the car. Just like Micky. But she came alive at the crime scene, just like Micky. And then he killed her violently w/o sexual assault. just as BSL claims about Micky. If he does confess to Lauren's demise, it will surprise me but I hope it will not deter the death penalty like it did in Micky's case. Guy needs to fry, sorry but this whole thing unnerves me and just cries for retribution.

I do agree that it seems personal in the sense that DM apparently mentioned HW to his stepfather, which certainly implies that he'd seen or met her before. Maybe he was stalking her? That said, could there be any possible connection with LS apart from both going to Sports on Thursday nights? Perhaps he could have encountered LS at the Jewish center or someplace like that (surname is Jewish perhaps?). I can't see him following her from SW to 5N to Sports to SW to 5N that night, but perhaps he would have hung around had he seen her leave Sports with CR? (Not trying to freak you out more here, BTW, just trying to make possible connections!)