IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #34

[sammi89]

So happy that there is a break! Regardless of whether it pans out, it's brought some fresh publicity to LS. I'll be the first to admit, I have always leaned toward 5N being responsible, but I always thought it was at least possible that if she did leave, a stranger could be responsible.

JR's supposed comment about seeing someone approach LS comes to mind. If true, his decision to not intervene in some capacity, even just to make sure she was okay, was pretty awful. However, that night was full of terrible decisions.

Lots of great thoughts posted. I have mixed feelings - I am hopeful for closure and accountability, but if this guy is responsible, what a horrible way to go.

 

[katydid23]

I wonder how the previous suspects feel about all this. They must be relieved and hopeful that this guy is the guilty party.

 

[katydid23]

I could be wrong but exposing yourself and then leaping to abducting etc is a big leap. Don't mean this person or any person isn't capable of doing it though. However this case has always made me wonder if someone could have hit her with their car or truck since she was under the influence. Then panicked and did whatever. Even so hoping there is a resolution from this search this case has been going on for too long

But he goes beyond just exposing himself. He masturbates in front of middle school girls out on the street in daylight. Knocks on a woman's front door with no pants on. That is more aggressive than just simple 'indecent exposure.' He seemed to already be making that leap by going to a woman's home half naked, knocking on her door. It is just one step away from pushing her back inside and that is assault.

 

[Ros]

More vague reporting. Last line of this Indy Star article says that police used video from a gas station's security cameras to identify Wagers. But it is not clear whether that was in regard to an indecent exposure case or whether it was used to place him in Bloomington on June 3, 2011. http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...erer-indiana-university-bloomington/79517618/

 

[CoolJ]

I wonder how the previous suspects feel about all this. They must be relieved and hopeful that this guy is the guilty party.

They are either relieved or *****ting their pants. jmo

 

[imkeylime]

But he goes beyond just exposing himself. He masturbates in front of middle school girls out on the street in daylight. Knocks on a woman's front door with no pants on. That is more aggressive than just simple 'indecent exposure.' He seemed to already be making that leap by going to a woman's home half naked, knocking on her door. It is just one step away from pushing her back inside and that is assault.

Agreed. He seems to have extreme impulse control issues (basically no impulse control at all, judging from the multiple incidents). Perhaps alcohol or a drug makes that worse. And perhaps if confronted with a young woman with no control at all it would be worse. We don't know, so I don't think it matters that he hasn't abducted, raped, or killed before. Jesse Matthew comes to mind (Hannah Graham and Morgan Harrington's killer). He didn't kill at first, either (although he might have in the Fairfield case, had a stranger not intervened).

 

[chaplain1]

They are either relieved or *****ting their pants. jmo

Why would they be pooping their pants? I don't get it.

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk

 

[akh]

Why would they be pooping their pants? I don't get it.

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I'm sure CoolJ means they will be scared if they have a connection to this guy such as if he's a dealer they used.

 

[nycpizzaparty]

Hopefully we will know more soon, but I wouldn't completely discount a possible connection between previous suspects and this new one. As others have said, I think if these people knew each other, the common denominator would be drugs. Total conjecture but if you wanted to get rid of a body and needed help, this might be the kind of guy you would ask for help. Especially if the death was due to drugs and discovery of this would bring attention to your drug-related doings and possibly expose higher-level dealers, etc. Again, just conjecture. He could have picked her up off the street too.

 

[Ixchel13]

New local story about this guy makes him sound pretty volatile http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...erer-indiana-university-bloomington/79517618/

can we connect this guy in any way to DM?

They should be bromates, both violent sex offenders and then there's they're both violent sex offenders.

 

[akh]

Hopefully we will know more soon, but I wouldn't completely discount a possible connection between previous suspects and this new one. As others have said, I think if these people knew each other, the common denominator would be drugs. Total conjecture but if you wanted to get rid of a body and needed help, this might be the kind of guy you would ask for help. Especially if the death was due to drugs and discovery of this would bring attention to your drug-related doings and possibly expose higher-level dealers, etc. Again, just conjecture. He could have picked her up off the street too.

It's pretty easy to get carried away with these type of things as far as speculation goes, particularly with so little confirmed information to tie it to, but the rumored 'phone ping' in Martinsville and the mystery 2nd call could actually be one and the same that was confused in the shuffle of retellings and 2nd and 3rd hand information. IOW, maybe there was no Martinsville ping, but instead a strange call to Martinsville?

I rather doubt it, especially if it was to be a direct call to this guy, because you'd think that LE could do a better job of connecting those dots and getting to this point much sooner than now.

Of course it's possible the thought is on the right track but the Martinsville phone connection rumor is more convoluted than I'm even speculating. Maybe more along the lines of them calling a phone that pinged in Martinsville, but not necessarily this guy's phone.

More thinking aloud here than anything... or maybe it's rambling.

 

[Ixchel13]

Hopefully we will know more soon, but I wouldn't completely discount a possible connection between previous suspects and this new one. As others have said, I think if these people knew each other, the common denominator would be drugs. Total conjecture but if you wanted to get rid of a body and needed help, this might be the kind of guy you would ask for help. Especially if the death was due to drugs and discovery of this would bring attention to your drug-related doings and possibly expose higher-level dealers, etc. Again, just conjecture. He could have picked her up off the street too.

yeah they must have gotten info out of DM after the other crazy jail guy spilled the beans.

IDK but I think a detective could get fired for contacting the victim's family at the stage this seems to be in.

The MSM is another thing they somehow found out right away
and really are to "blame" for everyone knowing what seems to be going on.

 

[IMH]

You are correct. The Indecent Exposure charges would not merit a search warrant of his parents property. There would have to be more. And more than just a rumor or annomous tip. Something with substance like an admittance by him.

My understanding is that the FBI would not need a search warrant if the owners of the property consented to the search, which it appears they did. There is still a reason they went out there, with cadaver dogs. It's a huge dedication of resources that wouldn't happen without some type of credible tip.

 

[Btown]

FBI did not search Trafalgar home

The FBI has confirmed the investigation of a Martinsville, Indiana, residence, a previous residence of Justin Wagers, 35.

The Indianapolis office of the FBI assisted the Bloomington Police Department with the investigation, special agent Wendy Osborne said.

The FBI did not search the property in Trafalgar, Indiana, Osborne said, but she added that BPD may have conducted a search there independently. The BPD has not commented further on the investigation since Thursday evening.

 

[AbbeyR]

More vague reporting. Last line of this Indy Star article says that police used video from a gas station's security cameras to identify Wagers. But it is not clear whether that was in regard to an indecent exposure case or whether it was used to place him in Bloomington on June 3, 2011. http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...erer-indiana-university-bloomington/79517618/

It sounds like it was in regard to the indecent exposure incident:

Johnson County Sheriff Doug Cox says Justin Matthew Wagers, 34, was arrested at his Martinsville home Tuesday evening after investigators followed up on surveillance video taken at a Shell gas station located near State Road 37 and Bluff Road on Sunday.

The video showed a white pickup truck with a fiberglass camper shell, matching the description given by a woman who said the man in the truck had followed her back to her neighborhood. Once there, the woman told police the man yelled “Hey lady,” and exposed himself to her.

http://fox59.com/2015/08/19/police-arrest-suspect-in-johnson-county-serial-flasher-case/

 

[IMH]

We have two x-cons who may have served time together (DM and DH) and now a third ex-con who has some similarities to DM (battery, sex offender) and possibly DH (ex-con, but his convictions were mostly theft). DH and JW both seem mentally ill/impaired to me, whereas DM seemed to think he was a pretty smart guy. Hard to know yet if there is any connection between any of them, but I dismissed the 5N guys a few years ago for the same reasons that someone mentioned earlier, that it is a pretty tough secret to keep, particularly among more than 2-3 people. The lawyering up right away didn't concern me either, I would do exactly the same for my college student away from home, implicated immediately in something so serious.

I think there may be a link between DM and Lauren, and possibly Marina Boelter. First, I search the archives of the local Bloomington newspaper, the Herald Times, and the IU newspaper, Indiana Daily Student, for articles related to sexual assault reports between 2000-2012, and focused on the ones with police-generated composite sketches. Check out the following 3 sketches, they all seem to look like it's the same person assaulting women between 2005 and 2012:

I also included DM's mug shot from his arrest for Hannah Wilson's murder in April of 2015. Note that the 2005 and 2012 attack happened near the IU campus, and the 2008 attack happened on Ison Road, the same road where DM lived when he was arrested last year.

It gets better: Marina Boelter was an 18 year old young mother who disappeared from Bloomfield, Indiana (about 20 minutes west of Bloomington) on 12/31/14. She was last seen by her ex-boyfriend (who adamantly maintained his innocence in her disappearance until he died a few months later from a stab wound during a fight) getting into a vehicle he described as a silver four-door sedan, possibly a silver Mercury Milan, driven by a "middle-aged heavy set male": . DM was driving a silver 2012 Kia Sportage when arrested last year for Hannah Wilson's murder. I think DM was heading somewhere north with Hannah Wilson when he had to stop at S.R. 45 and Plum Creek Road, because things were not going the way he had expected inside that vehicle. The vacant lot where she was found is not actually that remote, and I think he may have stopped short of where he was actually heading.

I believe the 2012 Kia Sportage was owned by his employer, Fine Print printing in Bloomington. Fine Print has a Google Maps street view photo taken in July of 2014. Notice the silver Kia Sportage to the left, and the white trucks to the right of the photos.

I can't help but hope that what I've pieced together above is not entirely new information for the federal, state and local LE investigators.

 

[AbbeyR]

I'm with you on the sketches looking like the same person, IMH! I don't see the ressemblance to DM though. They describe a white male, in his 20s, with a slender build, and DM is 49 and heavyset. Also, I believe the family of Marina Boelter posted on her missing facebook page that they had been told by investigators that DM had been ruled out in her disappearance.

It's interesting to think through possible connections between these cases and persons of interest though!

My feeling is that it is unlikely that the cases of these missing women are connected. The fact that initial articles claimed a possible connection not only between JW and Lauren but to several missing women actually makes me doubt that this lead is going anywhere. I had the same impression as you that DH and JW seem mentally ill, and I wonder if this latest development came about it the same way - JW himself telling stories to other inmates. Someone upthread posted a rumor that this was the case. I don't know - the kind of person who is arrested multiple times for doing things like ringing someone's doorbell with no pants on just doesn't seem to fit the profile of a serial killer who has evaded detection in multiple disappearances.

On the other hand, the extent of this search suggests that LE had at least a credible tip or lead. Hoping for updates.

 

[IMH]

Hi AbbeyR, I think the first 2 sketches (2005 and 2008) do look pretty similar to each other, but these were 10 years ago, and DM could have been more slender when he was in his 30s. I think the 2012 sketch looks most like DM. And the location in the 2012 assault is Grant & 8th Street, pretty much the same location as where Hannah Wilson was dropped off by the taxi.

 

[Ixchel13]

We have two x-cons who may have served time together (DM and DH) and now a third ex-con who has some similarities to DM (battery, sex offender) and possibly DH (ex-con, but his convictions were mostly theft). DH and JW both seem mentally ill/impaired to me, whereas DM seemed to think he was a pretty smart guy. Hard to know yet if there is any connection between any of them, but I dismissed the 5N guys a few years ago for the same reasons that someone mentioned earlier, that it is a pretty tough secret to keep, particularly among more than 2-3 people. The lawyering up right away didn't concern me either, I would do exactly the same for my college student away from home, implicated immediately in something so serious.

I think there may be a link between DM and Lauren, and possibly Marina Boelter. First, I search the archives of the local Bloomington newspaper, the Herald Times, and the IU newspaper, Indiana Daily Student, for articles related to sexual assault reports between 2000-2012, and focused on the ones with police-generated composite sketches. Check out the following 3 sketches, they all seem to look like it's the same person assaulting women between 2005 and 2012:

I also included DM's mug shot from his arrest for Hannah Wilson's murder in April of 2015. Note that the 2005 and 2012 attack happened near the IU campus, and the 2008 attack happened on Ison Road, the same road where DM lived when he was arrested last year.

It gets better: Marina Boelter was an 18 year old young mother who disappeared from Bloomfield, Indiana (about 20 minutes west of Bloomington) on 12/31/14. She was last seen by her ex-boyfriend (who adamantly maintained his innocence in her disappearance until he died a few months later from a stab wound during a fight) getting into a vehicle he described as a silver four-door sedan, possibly a silver Mercury Milan, driven by a "middle-aged heavy set male":

. DM was driving a silver 2012 Kia Sportage when arrested last year for Hannah Wilson's murder. I think DM was heading somewhere north with Hannah Wilson when he had to stop at S.R. 45 and Plum Creek Road, because things were not going the way he had expected inside that vehicle. The vacant lot where she was found is not actually that remote, and I think he may have stopped short of where he was actually heading.

I believe the 2012 Kia Sportage was owned by his employer, Fine Print printing in Bloomington. Fine Print has a Google Maps street view photo taken in July of 2014. Notice the silver Kia Sportage to the left, and the white trucks to the right of the photos.

I can't help but hope that what I've pieced together above is not entirely new information for the federal, state and local LE investigators.

This is some very good sleuthing, IMH!

I don't feel bad about sleuthing the 5N guys even if these other guys abducted Lauren. Lauren may have been responsible for her actions (unless she was secretly drugged) but their actions caused her demise.

If this isn't a wake up call to these kids, and the tragic events in the past just like Lauren's wasn't a wake up call, then each time this kind of thing happens, they will suffer the same public scrutiny until as a collective young society, they finally get it. They won't sail through these events unscathed, and their actions will influence their futures. A 2 minute walk down the street would have saved Lauren.

It's no secret here that I work on campus with these kids every day. The things I hear. Just the other day I told a group of young men about the smiley face serial killer group. One guy actually got really scared and asked me why I would scare them like that. I said to him, "If I scared you, I've done my job." They started looking the SFK stories up, I told them to watch the video of the kid kicking the window in trying to get away from his attackers, even though I'm afraid to watch it myself.

These young men are still talking about the SFK and this was 3 weeks ago. They have looked things up and shared the facts with other guys. I count this as a victory, a big one! Finally,
I have actually gotten through to a small group of these creatures.

Back to these present guys: I have to agree with IMH, there must be some connection. This info and search etc happened
after the crazy guy (DH) finally got a serious listen from LE.

And that included someone moving a body. The cadaver dogs could have been used only to indicate that fact: A body HAD been there and was moved.

According to our jailhouse snitch, the body being moved was a fatality of a hit and run. I could see someone wanting to brag in jail, but stopping just short of implicating themselves for murder. Or, maybe someone did strike Lauren, either on the ground after she might have passed out in the alley, or as she was staggering home.

<modsnip>

So here is this guy, angry and potentially violent, there every Thursday, playing trivia.

I find it interesting that he told his stepdad about HW. I wonder what he told the SD about her, and also what he told the stepdad about the other women he raped and dumped in yards.

And on a desperate note, what to do with these sex offenders? Executing them seems too severe, yet we see it time and time again, recidivism and escalation.

 

[AbbeyR]

Hi AbbeyR, I think the first 2 sketches (2005 and 2008) do look pretty similar to each other, but these were 10 years ago, and DM could have been more slender when he was in his 30s. I think the 2012 sketch looks most like DM. And the location in the 2012 assault is Grant & 8th Street, pretty much the same location as where Hannah Wilson was dropped off by the taxi.

Here's a couple of earlier photos of DM: (He is listed at 6 ft, 210 lbs in the one on the right)