IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #4

[Ven]

No disrespect intended, but just stating facts. I have a fair bit of experience volunteering with homeless people (although not in Indiana, I would assume it is similar elsewhere) A large percentage of the homeless population is mentally/psychologically impaired. They also 'gossip' and form opinions/expand on their thoughts/restate as facts just like the rest of us.

I do not think their comments should be thrown out...but I do think they should be taken into account through a filter of fact vs. suspicion--and their overall mental health.

I watched that West Mesa killer thing on Dateline not too long ago, and the transient population always told LE rumors that the victims were killed and buried out in the desert, and sure enough they were found buried out in the desert. Just because they say something doesn't make it so, but their accounts should have just as much weight as any other witness account.

 

[Surly Sasha]

coltsgal-I had the same thought. It really looks like a ton of cameras to me and I cannot believe someone would be so lucky to just miss being caught shoving her into a car.

Unless I'm missing cameras, the ones on College are pointed at the businesses, which are behind a kind of stone half-wall (it's hard to describe so I'm sorry about not being clear) and I'm not sure those would give a view of what was going on on the sidewalk.

 

[abstr]

Are you sure about this?

Not positive but I have heard other discussion about cell records in other cases (I think there was some of this in the Phylicia Barnes cases where there had been a lot people involved) where LE was delayed in getting cell records. I thought they had to find out where the phone pinged with the cell company.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I think it is quite likely that LE does not have all the cell records, if any..

As shefner has shared with us she has unfortunately had to go what is a parents worst nightmare of having your child go Missing and having not a clue where they are.. She probably could shed some light here as I know that she shared her personal experience of attempting to get her very own son's cell phone records when he went Missing.. Hoping of course that it would yield an idea of where to locate him.. She was not legally allowed, even tho being his very own mother still yet the red tape of not being legally allowed to have access to his cell records.. It was only by the grace of God that the woman whom she was speaking with from the phone company's heart was most likely softened by this mother's desperate plea to try and find her son..
As I said she may be able to shed a little light on the dufficulty of getting access to such type records..

That being said even with a person possibly giving permission to access their records LE still has to go the legal route for reasons of having such evidence admissible in court if it ever need be.. So just like in Hailey Dunn's case tho her mother supposedly signed the waiver for LE to access all her cell phone records they still had to go the correct legal route by going thru the courts to obtain a subpoena and then at that time serving the subpoena on Verizon wireless in tht particular case.

I know due to the legalities of this red tape having to be gone thru that this records were a couple weeks in becoming available in full to LE..

So IMO I'd say it is quite likely that they do not have those all important records yet.. Atleast not in full I am certain that they do not yet have..

 

[Surly Sasha]

Revisiting the possibility of Lauren being in a car. Do any of the apartment buildings where she was supposed to be at have indoor parking?

I would also hope that if indoor parking exists, that the garage has cameras as well.

Smallwood has a parking garage. 5 North just has parking behind the building but the spaces are dedicated and on camera (it's full of BMWs and other luxury cars so that makes total sense).

 

[abstr]

I don't believe so. I think LE can just subpoena the carrier.

Isn't a subpeona basically the same? Don't you have to get a judge to sign off on that, so you would have to have evidence.
Not trying to argue but just to clarify what my understanding is. I certainly could be wrong. Also, I don't what type or how much evidence or cause would be needed.

 

[Btown]

Unless I'm missing cameras, the ones on College are pointed at the businesses, which are behind a kind of stone half-wall (it's hard to describe so I'm sorry about not being clear) and I'm not sure those would give a view of what was going on on the sidewalk.

Quite true. There is almost no view of the sidewalk, or the street. Especially at night.

Facing South along College Ave.

Facing North along College Ave.

 

[Ven]

LE can get a subpoena for cell records at any time as far as I know.
But they are at the mercy of the carrier for when they might get that information back.

 

[Btown]

Smallwood has a parking garage. 5 North just has parking behind the building but the spaces are dedicated and on camera (it's full of BMWs and other luxury cars so that makes total sense).

Oh, I must have missed the cameras.

Thanks, I'll look again.

 

[Inspector Gidget]

@JenMom I agree with you and why I made that statement.Strange they heard the 4:15 scream and they are all wearing watches and looked at it when they heard the scream.A lot of them ramble and repeat what other's say.I worked near an area where they were
quite a few homeless.Some of them are in a drunken state.

 

[Surly Sasha]

For the locals,where do these homeless people hang out or stay or do they wander all over.Just wondering how they know so much.

I grew up here and a lot of the homeless people I see were homeless when I was growing up. I don't know if they wander during the winter but they definitely come back during the summer.

I think they know so much because they're a relatively close-knit "community" and because one of their squatting areas is there at the closed dealership/woods by the railroad tracks, which is right by where LS disappeared.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

Are you sure about this?

and in order for a judge to sign a search warrant, le would need to provide sufficient probable cause regarding a particular suspect.


edit: forgot to say this is in regards to le getting permission to look at suspect's private cell phone records.

 

[Surly Sasha]

Oh, I must have missed the cameras.

Thanks, I'll look again.

The ones I saw were on the building next door. I was especially hating it when I tried to drive by today on Morton, realized (too late) that 11th was closed, and whipped into 4 North's parking lot to avoid a big truck. Then I had to try to navigate my minivan around because the alley was closed as well. My power steering sucks since I hit a deer last year and I was half certain that I was going to back into some car that is worth more than my life. :banghead:

 

[Inspector Gidget]

@Btown What kind of camera were you using? I want one that takes great pics like this
one does.

 

[Surly Sasha]

I guess what I keep going back to as I mull this all over is that I don't believe that any of LS's friends/acquaintances, if responsible, set out to harm her. If one of them hurt her, for whatever reason, it was a crime of passion and they had a limited amount of time to get rid of her body and any evidence. We know MB had class that day so that gives him even less time (although we don't know if the other boys had any responsibilities that day as well).

From what I know of most non-local IU students, they would not know the area outside of campus very well. While I realize that there are *lots* of places to hide someone as small as LS, it seems unlikely that if one of them is responsible that she was taken far. There have been so many people searching--surely something would have turned up?

A stranger abduction would mean that many different moons would have had to align perfectly, but I think the same could be said for these kids being able to pull off the perfect crime. While drunk. Or high.

Now, maybe they did and the police have just mucked up the investigation, which scares me almost as much as a stranger abduction.

 

[cluciano63]

I hope LE is still collecting tapes; it seems like she would have to be one of them, if not more, if she was really out there alone at 4am or after...but geez, who wouldn't know to turn in their tapes by now

 

[Inspector Gidget]

I grew up here and a lot of the homeless people I see were homeless when I was growing up. I don't know if they wander during the winter but they definitely come back during the summer.

I think they know so much because they're a relatively close-knit "community" and because one of their squatting areas is there at the closed dealership/woods by the railroad tracks, which is right by where LS disappeared.

Do you think they would harm her and if so why?

 

[Ven]

The sex offender registry has the list of all the convicted sex offenders in the area.
LE seems like they have not done much investigative work, to be honest, they haven't even interviewed all the POIs or friends, so you wonder if they've had any time to look into these guys.

Could one of their vehicles match the one in the video?

 

[Janeumayer]

coltsgal-I had the same thought. It really looks like a ton of cameras to me and I cannot believe someone would be so lucky to just miss being caught shoving her into a car.

By the way, I believe at the beginning of the case they said one of the cameras showed her and someone else doing "activity" at one point. Was the activity ever defined or other person she was with named? Or was that just faulty reporting?

Dont know if someone answered your question: It was LE at a press conference. Anyone have the link?

 

[Janeumayer]

Btown, I want to thank you again for the photos. :bow: Great job! :rocker: I think we should include them in any new threads (and I hope there won't be many). I'll find out the best way to do that.

Can I ask for a HUGE Favor? I am still confused with the street names. Wondering if someone can kindly volunteer and number BTOWN's pics and put the numbers on a map? Really, really would help.