Maybe it was just an acquaintance and he was already exonerated. I thought about this ... if that were the case why wouldn't LE confirm that witness account was corroborated? But perhaps they don't want to give that info away on the record. For instance, if they thought keeping that information from the person(s) they believe were involved would eventually yield more info, or if they thought it may give the POI bait for an excuse, or weaken their case, etc. ... Just thinking out lout, I suppose.
IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #9
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Maybe it was just an acquaintance and he was already exonerated. I thought about this ... if that were the case why wouldn't LE confirm that witness account was corroborated? But perhaps they don't want to give that info away on the record. For instance, if they thought keeping that information from the person(s) they believe were involved would eventually yield more info, or if they thought it may give the POI bait for an excuse, or weaken their case, etc. ... Just thinking out lout, I suppose.
The timeline we were given doesn't fit with that encounter at 3:38 am.
pepperpeople
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Delurking since I haven't seen anyone else address this.. in thread #8 some people were trying to ID the 917 cell number that was popping up on twitter the day LS went missing. It's HT's number. If you google the full number, you get a "lost my phone" facebook page where HT posts that as her number.
I will also cosign w/ whoever said HT seems to just repeat (and perhaps not too accurately) things others have told her. I've long thought we shouldn't put too much stock in the exact details of her version of events. Just my :twocents:
I will also cosign w/ whoever said HT seems to just repeat (and perhaps not too accurately) things others have told her. I've long thought we shouldn't put too much stock in the exact details of her version of events. Just my :twocents:
Don't want to give the impression that I'm calling you out, I asked about this in my post above and I have seen many express the same thing you stated.
What, from the timeline we have been given, rules out the 3:38 sighting?
That's kind of my point. Because it doesn't fit with the timeline of her making a suspicious phone call from JR's phone nor his account of watching her walk down the road at 4:30am may be the very reason they are withholding that info from the official public record. Maybe they are counting on JR to tell more lies. You know, enough rope to hang himself?
He could have made up both of those scenarios for several reasons.
Maybe he knew she would have to be accounted for between 3:00am and 4:30am and figured he could get away with saying she left at 4:30am.
And then the 4:15am phone call was easy to explain by his story of her being there and looking for her phone.
And maybe, really, neither of those things actually happened.
cluciano63
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Mainly because she was supposedly either still at CR's or at JR's by this time, and he claims she made a call from his phone at 4:15AM, coming to his place directly after leaving CR's in the same building or complex, according to MB. So why place her at their house as late as 4:15AM if she had left in time to be out on the streets at 3:38AM? Unless she didn't go directly to JR's and whoever picked up the girl in the street carried her back to JR's...I suppose that is possible, but doesn't seem to fit.
I can't imagine these guys involving more people than necessary late at night to remove a body...only the closest of friends or "brothers." Look, we've all seen crimes where the perp is an absolute moron and yet they still manage to hide a body for very long periods of time. These guys wouldn't be any worse than many who came before them. Poor Lauren is probably in a place very much like the one LE looked at on Sunday, although I doubt she was actually buried.
Regarding the 3:38 witness. Could it be that LS left shortly after visiting JR? She passes out on her way home at 10th and college. Dark skinned man sees her and tries to help. Maybe she has something on her that is from 5 North Apartments so he takes her there to see if anyone knows her. JR takes her back into his apartment let's her rest until she feels better and leaves at 4:30. Wild stretch, just throwing it out there.
Surely dark skinned man would have called police rather than haul her to 5 North Apartments.
ETA: Just saw now cluciano posted something similar.
Surely dark skinned man would have called police rather than haul her to 5 North Apartments.
ETA: Just saw now cluciano posted something similar.
Could it be that JR knows or was involved with whatever happened to her between roughly 3:00am and 4:30am and claims she was there, and the story about watching her leave as well as the one about the phone call being from her really just be his attempt at an alibi?
phantomthought
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Maybe the reason JR was the one who called DR was he was the only one other than the 3 POI that was at JR house earlier in the night and knew what they were doing or JR could have thought besides CR and MB he was the only one that even knew LS was at his apartment that night.
To my knowledge, we have no statements about what time she left MB and what time she arrived at JR. I realize they live 2 doors apart and it seems feasible that she went directly there, but it seems completely within the timeframe we have been given for her to have left CR/MB and not gone directly to JRs, but wound up there later in plenty of time for a 415 phone call.
And what is there to support 3:38 am sighting?
A completely uninvolved eyewitness who has absolutely nothing to gain from lying.
Many sleuths have already questioned JR's sighting based on many things, including a re-creation of the supposed sighting where it was concluded it would be very difficult, if not impossible, for him to have seen her.
The eyewitness which was never mentioned by LE, and when the timeline was released, the 3:38 am time is nowhere to be found.
If LE believed that to be credible, why not include that in a timeline? If there is a sketch of the "dark skinned man" why not show it to the public in hope of finding this man? At the very least this man could be an important witness.
I think that is what they are saying. You can't rule out the 3:38 sighting, that LS made the 4:15am call or that LS was last seen at 4:30 tunring onto College. Nor can you say any one of them are certain.
Since LE didn't release the 3:38 sighting, I can understand if people aren't putting too much weight on it.
elmomom
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Very possible that he has been ID'ed and eliminated from suspicion. Or, they have camera footage of this that they are not disclosing and it showed this person afterwards alone and leaving the area. Or, they are certain that she does make it back to JR's alive one way or another. Maybe even to just keep it quiet and not tip their hand - though why leak info to TG then?
- You don't know that the "dark skinned man" has not already been found, questioned and exonerated. Why would LE release a sketch of a man that they do not believe to be a POI?
- Like I said before, perhaps they are just giving JR enough rope to hang himself with.
- She may not have been mentioned by LE, but there sure is a LOT more and detailed information of her account via Tony Gatto than there is of either the call or the exit from JRs. Tony Gatto is an actual journalist whose entire career is on the line if he gets this wrong. He said that he interviewed her twice, in person. You think Tony Gatto is a liar? Why would he lie? You think the witness is a liar? Why would she lie?
- Someone asked at a press conference about this eyewitness account yesterday, and LE said they would not say that it DIDN'T happen. They didn't say "we can't confirm or deny that". They said "we cannot say this did not occur" (or something along those lines - please link to it if you have it, sleuths).
cluciano63
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I wouldn't be surprised if LE already knows who the girl and guy were that the bartender/mgr saw and they have nothing to do with any of this. There would be no need for LE to speak up about something that was never acknowledged publicly (by LE) anyway. I am sure they are looking into lots of things that we will never hear about.
If JR is the major perp, he said she was there until 4:30AM, in my opinion, because he knew that she was seen with him near that time.
If JR is the major perp, he said she was there until 4:30AM, in my opinion, because he knew that she was seen with him near that time.
Also, you are assuming that LE releases ALL the info they have to the public. No, they only release info that they believe would be beneficial to release in order to solve the case. Period, they end. They do not release gratuitous information just to satisfy public curiosity.
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