IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #9

[bessie]

I found this and wanted to share it. They provide a useful and updated timeline, IMO:

http://legalpublication.blogspot.com/2011/06/lauren-spierer-disappearance-puzzles.html

That is a good timeline. Another excellent timeline published in by the IDS on Sunday, chronicles police activities over the past two weeks.

http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=81967

 

[jjenny]

Yes, LE has definitely stated that 3:15-3:30 time was incorrect, and the latest they have LS on video is at 2:51 am.

 

[Gabby66]

A part of me thinks there is probably clear reason on that video, why CR wanted to say he wasn't able to recall anything from that night. However, was he the one who passed the LD test?

 

[jjenny]

I don't think it has ever been reported which POI passed a lie detector test. I believe if it was CR, his lawyer would have informed us about it.
His lawyer certainly has been very talkative, so why wouldn't he let us know if that was CR?

 

[bx2]

Yes, the boyfriend was pointed out specifically as a POI. His name wasn't mentioned here, but I believe this was the only time one was explicitly called a POI:

"We continue to speak with him. He's cooperative," Parker said, referring to Spierer's boyfriend, adding "certainly" when he was asked if the boyfriend is a person of interest.
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/28197546/detail.html.

However, names were specifically mentioned here in this Police timeline:
-- 1:46 a.m.: She entered Kilroy's Sports Bar, leaving at 2:27 a.m.
-- About 2:30 a.m.: She entered her apartment and left at 2:42 a.m.
-- 2:48 a.m.: She was seen walking up an alley, toward Rossman and Rosenbaum's building. That time is revised from earlier police statements.
-- 4:14 a.m.: The truck was first spotted and again at 4:24 a.m. though police said they don't know if it's connected to Spierer's disappearance.
-- About 4:30 a.m.: Rosenbaum told police he saw Spierer rounding a corner toward home.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-16-missing-indiana-student-spierer_n.htm

I've probably gotten a little off track with the point I was originally trying to make in that nothing should be read into police not confirming who LS was walking with... because they are not and will not confirm the names publicly.

MSM is filling in the name details.

 

[sv614]

I am EXTREMELY interested in finding out when Rosenbaum left and why.

1. What day did he leave?
2. Was he already planning on leaving on that day?

People know the answers to this. HT certainly knows.

 

[Gabby66]

very true jj. Good point about the lawyer. Was it then reported that one passed, and they just didn't say whom? Is that safe to assume the others FAILED? I have heard of people who take a LD test for "practice" - these aren't people who have committed and crimes but are being asked questions by the testers who are learning to administer the test. Apparently, people can fail the thing - even when answering simple questions truthfully, from what I've heard. But if they gave it to 4 boys and three fail, that's pretty darn telling, IF it happened.

 

[phantomthought]

Did LE actually say it was JR who saw her leave at 4:30, or did it all come from other people such as roommate and lawyers?

I do not think LE has said much about either of her trips to JR's.They go from her leaving smallwood to arriving and leaving Kilroy's back to smallwood to the last video in the alley.I think everything else comes from the lawyers and the roommate and the problem with her is other than them hanging out to 12:30 all of her info is second hand.Even the statement that LS and her bf were suppose to hang out that night was told to her by the bf the next day.

 

[ingra1327]

very true jj. Good point about the lawyer. Was it then reported that one passed, and they just didn't say whom? Is that safe to assume the others FAILED? I have heard of people who take a LD test for "practice" - these aren't people who have committed and crimes but are being asked questions by the testers who are learning to administer the test. Apparently, people can fail the thing - even when answering simple questions truthfully, from what I've heard. But if they gave it to 4 boys and three fail, that's pretty darn telling, IF it happened.

All we know is that one prime person of interest passed a LD test, so I don't think we can assume that everyone else failed. And, like you said, false positives are somewhat common.

 

[bx2]

All we know is that one prime person of interest passed a LD test, so I don't think we can assume that everyone else failed. And, like you said, false positives are somewhat common.

I tried to mention this earlier too so sorry for repeating, but I do think its quite possible that polygraph results are unknown. I find it suspicious that this was mentioned very briefly almost in passing, from only one source that I'm aware of (fox59). Until an identity is revealed, I'm hesitant to accept it.

 

[Gabby66]

I thought I'd also comment on the DNA samples. Some people were questioning why LE would take samples unless they have something against which to compare it. I believe DNA is just part of the evidence collection, though at this point I'd assume it's voluntary. If sadly, they were to discover a body say, 10 years from now, and within the next 10 years the guilty party was killed in a car accident, it would be a shame to not be able to tie him to the case, giving the family closure. I think it's probably just protocol, to collect from any POI who will willingly do so - why not?

 

[ally0x]

One thing that I find interesting is that she supposedly walked to 11th and College and turned the corner to walk down College back to her apartment. However, she got to JRs apartment complex by going a different route - through all the alleys, etc. And from looking at the map it would seem that she would have to actually walk past a path that she could have taken to start walking back to her apartment..the path she took to get there. I just find it weird that she would take a different route home than the one she took to get there. I am a college student as well, so putting myself in that mind frame, the only reason I would think to take an alternate route back to my room would be because it's faster. But it doesn't really look like that route is any faster than the other route. And also, being a college student, I think I would feel safer walking inbetween buildings (the "back way") rather than walking alone on a main road. Although thinking about it now, I don't think I would feel safe either way.

Basically, I'm speculating that JR is lying about LS leaving at 4:30 and going in the direction she did. IMO, I don't think she left that apartment complex alive.

 

[eqh]

LS's name is all over the TG article which we're now referring to as the 3:38 sighting which I think is a more accurate and objective way to describe it. This witness is sure it was LS? I talked to someone about this tonight and the person said in B-ton at that hour there is more than one petite blonde who is messed up out on the streets.

It just makes no sense that JR would claim 4:30 if she was taken off the street by someone else at 3:38 and he was not involved. As mentioned by others, this could have happened and she still could have wound up back at JR's house.

There's no way to know if the eyewitness testimony is accurate. Consider that this would have happened about 2 weeks before the eyewitness spoke to Gatto (how long before she spoke to police?), her brain is likely to fill in details or see things that didn't occur, even if she feels very confident. It very likely could have been some other person involved here.

 

[Lovejac]

This is why I'm not as suspicious of CR anymore.

http://www.indystar.com/article/201...r-people-saw-missing-student?odyssey=obinsite

Salzmann said a second altercation, at Rossman's building, took place a couple of days after Spierer went missing, when other students confronted Rossman. Salzmann would not elaborate.

He said police have searched his client's Jeep Grand Cherokee, credit card records and cellphone and that Rossman has cooperated with those searches.

 

[eqh]

One thing that I find interesting is that she supposedly walked to 11th and College and turned the corner to walk down College back to her apartment. However, she got to JRs apartment complex by going a different route - through all the alleys, etc. And from looking at the map it would seem that she would have to actually walk past a path that she could have taken to start walking back to her apartment..the path she took to get there. I just find it weird that she would take a different route home than the one she took to get there. I am a college student as well, so putting myself in that mind frame, the only reason I would think to take an alternate route back to my room would be because it's faster. But it doesn't really look like that route is any faster than the other route. And also, being a college student, I think I would feel safer walking inbetween buildings (the "back way") rather than walking alone on a main road. Although thinking about it now, I don't think I would feel safe either way.

Basically, I'm speculating that JR is lying about LS leaving at 4:30 and going in the direction she did. IMO, I don't think she left that apartment complex alive.

I would think that walking along College would be quicker, more direct, less hard on her feet and feel safer than walking down the alley. I think I've heard others say that alley is quite dark at that time.

I think a lot of us are on board with your speculation, though.

I think it is sort of odd they would have gone down the alley in the first place, especially considering that CR should have been reasonably worried about being jumped again -- are we sure they would have left from the front door of Smallwood on College, or through a back way?

I'm can't shake the feeling that something bad went down in that alley, and she might not have made it to 5 north under her own volition, if at all.

 

[Mophebius]

Hey all just got signed up again for websleuths and I'm pretty stoked to be here. I followed the Haines family murders here a few years back and hadn't been back since. I'd like to ask a couple questions and offer my own working theory on what may have happend to Lauren.
I am from the North West and we often times have moutain rescues etc. in this area. In some cases one of the tools used to help find lost or missing person's is to use the "ping's" from their cell phone movements. I understand being familiar with the case that Lauren left her cell phone at Kilroy's. What I'm wondering is has LE looked into the movements of the POI's based upon cellphone "ping's"? I know it isn't an exact technology and I am by no means an expert on it. I just know that in certain circumstances cell phone movements can be used to help find or significantly narrow down a search area. This could be extremely useful information in terms of alibi coroboration and or POI elimination if the perp or "perps" possessed or even used their cell phone's in and around the time of potentially the commision of a crime? I would love to see what JR and JW's (and their inner circle of friends) movements may have looked like that night. Again I know it's not an exact science, but could it could prove to be greatly helpful if LE could determine if some person or group traveled to an area near the time of Lauren's disappearance.
My personal hunch is that the answer to this case lies with JR or JW, potentially even the both of them. They are old frat buddies, I beleive 1 was graduating and the other was to be a senior at IU. I dont see them as outright killers, they neither one really profile as killers to me. Self Preservationists though? It certainly falls in-line with my opinion of them, that they would be capable of disposing of a body under a specific set of circumstances. I obviously dont know exactly what happend here, this is again just a working theory. My gut tells me that "something" happend, be it accidental death or overdose, as many people have suggested. I dont think we have a huge conspiracy group of people though that may be knowledgeable or responsible for the disposal of the body. I think this was pulled off by no more than 2 people. The fact that nobody has talked yet lends to my theory of 1 or 2 people involved in the disposal, once you get over 3 or more it gets sloppy...
I think LE has alot more info than they are divulging to the public. They may just be dotting i's and crossing t's at this point? I have a feeling that they are privately zero'd in on a small group of people and trying to figure out exactly what went down.
I also wanted to add that the body may not have been burried or hidden right away. Remember that Lauren wasn't reported missing until the afternoon of June 3rd. I think the key to cracking this case and finding Lauren, is determining the movements of these two small groups of people (JR/JW and crew) from 2am June 3rd to 2pm June 3rd. I really hope this is being worked on if it's a possible angle to the truth!

 

[jennyb629]

I am from the North West and we often times have moutain rescues etc. in this area. In some cases one of the tools used to help find lost or missing person's is to use the "ping's" from their cell phone movements. I understand being familiar with the case that Lauren left her cell phone at Kilroy's. What I'm wondering is has LE looked into the movements of the POI's based upon cellphone "ping's"? I know it isn't an exact technology and I am by no means an expert on it. I just know that in certain circumstances cell phone movements can be used to help find or significantly narrow down a search area. This could be extremely useful information in terms of alibi coroboration and or POI elimination if the perp or "perps" possessed or even used their cell phone's in and around the time of potentially the commision of a crime? I would love to see what JR and JW's (and their inner circle of friends) movements may have looked like that night.

I also wanted to add that the body may not have been burried or hidden right away. Remember that Lauren wasn't reported missing until the afternoon of June 3rd. I think the key to cracking this case and finding Lauren, is determining the movements of these two small groups of people (JR/JW and crew) from 2am June 3rd to 2pm June 3rd. I really hope this is being worked on if it's a possible angle to the truth!

I have to say I totally agree...I hope they are checking/have checked all the PsOI cell phone 'pings'/records. This could be incredibly helpful. I'm kind of doubtful, unfortunately, that they have been able to check all of them since both JR and JW left town shortly after Lauren's disappearance and both retained really high-profile attorneys right away. We have barely seen anything in the MSM or in press conferences about information any of the PsOI have contributed but it seems like-out of all of Lauren's friends-JR and JW have offered the least in terms of cooperation with this case. I wish we could know for sure if LE has been able to check cell phone records and movements for these 2, who seem to me to be-if not responsible-at least knowledgeable about something that could be of help in solving this case.

Like you said, it also complicates things somewhat that whoever was involved had up to 12 hours to get rid of the body/evidence...that is kind of a long time and, assuming that this was something involving someone Lauren knew, apparently enough time even for a college student perp(s) who were intoxicated, freaked out/scared, meticulously trying to avoid cameras/spotting by potential witnesses, unfamiliar with surrounding rural areas, etc. to cover this up pretty well (I say 'apparently' since so little information has been found so far). But, since that 12 hours is such a long time, it would be so helpful to get the cell phone info for that time period to see if any of these PsOI were in locations that may indicate cover-up activities (a drugstore/place to buy cleaning supplies, gas station/ATM/etc. out of their normal area, or of course an actual location they may have left the body or other evidence). Perhaps they would have been smart enough to realize that they could be traced if they took their cell phone though and would have purposefully left it at home...but that could also be suspicious in itself as it would be odd for a college student(s) to go around all day w/o their phone...especially for JW since he would have supposedly been using his phone to try to reach Lauren that morning. Where did he make those unanswered calls to her from?

However, like someone on this board said before, the perp(s) most likely didn't know how much time he/she/they had--it was possible that someone else could have noticed that Lauren was missing earlier in the morning (one of her roommates, her bf if he was not involved in the disappearance, another friend, her parents, etc) so the perp(s) were no doubt still working as fast as possible, not knowing how long they would have to cover their tracks/hide evidence/a body. Grr, every time I start writing about this case I just get so frustrated with all the unknowns and twists and turns! I always wind up writing a lot more than I intended as well...

 

[Blythe]

Right, but they didn't necessarily know they had 12 hours.

If they would be the one to report her missing they knew they had 12 hours or even more.

 

[webrocket]

pings are useless with Lauren's phone as it never left the bar or so we've been told.

 

[Mophebius]

I read on another site that CR and JW were no longer considered POI, can anyone else verify this to be true? I saw it in comments made today (6-22-11) on a news website, can't find the site right now, I think it was the Herald Tribune?