IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #9

[mrsu]

Lauren Spierer search: Situation inspires difficult questions
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/22/digitalcity.qp-9133803.sto

 

[mrsu]

Spierer Disappearance Looms Over IU Orientation
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/28311917/detail.html

 

[Jupiter812]

I can't fathom this either, especially for a proclaimed "fashionista" who probably owns expensive shoes...but even more so just the idea of walking all around town barefoot. I know, I know, not weird if she was wasted, some say, but it is to me. I'm leaning towards her being carried at some point on the video LE has that they have referred to as "activity" taking place. I'm still shocked at the fact that she lost every single thing she went out with, and none of her friends or family have indicated any surprise at this fact. It kind of blows my mind, personally...losing everything.

I kind of wish Nancy Grace (much as I can't stand her show) wasn't so wrapped up in the Casey Anthony trial, as I think she could have had an interesting conversation with Lauren's roommate...

It would be painful to publicly display surprise at this. Imagine how her parents may be shocked to learn of this other side of her. Come to think of it I did read a quote they said she always has her phone and she is "street smart."

 

[Skigirl]

I also think that she may not have set out on that walk to Smallwood... or at least she may not have gotten very far. There's video footage of her in several locations that we know of early on in the evening, yet there's not a single image of her walking home. Why? At that late hour she would have been easy to spot if there were a camera to spot her. How is it that she managed to pick a route with no surveillance when she picked so many with it hours before? I don't know if she set off on that walk at all, but if she did, I don't think she got more than a few yards.

 

[shefner]

I find it a bit difficult to believe that one of these kids would have connections to dispose of a body.

People are found dead from OD's all the time. So we know dealers don't regularly go and try to dump a body.

And it's one thing to deal in illicit and illegal substances, another to risk being caught with a dead body or having evidence tying you directly to a dead body. I can't see a lot of dealers wanting to take that chance, and for what?

I think this case might be different than most where a person OD's on drugs. And a dealer might help if called upon, simply to keep customers and collect favors that can be called in later.

Oh yes....and to keep himself out of jail for drug dealing.

 

[phantomthought]

I still can't imagine why JR would say that Lauren was with him until 4:30AM if she wasn't. Nothing explains to me why he would make this up, it only puts him in the worst possible position. So even if somehow she was scooped up by the "man in the street", he is still putting her at his place almost an hour later...she must have been seen there by someone else and he knows it.

Also maybe if all three (CR,MB,JR) were involved in whatever happened to her they agreed all three had to be involved in the cover story.

 

[Jupiter812]

As someone who went to a big ten school/midwestern university, and who did her fair share of partying/bar hopping/visiting with friends at all hours, the thing that I almost find weirdest about the whole story is that she left her shoes behind and continued to wander around -- apparently contentedly -- for a couple hours. College towns are filled with broken glass, icky stuff on the ground, patches of lawn that aren't well-maintained, cigarette butts and other garbage strewn around sidewalks and other areas where students hang out. Even after a night of drinking I would no sooner have walked around barefoot for any length of time than I would have eaten off the floor of a bar. Why didn't she go into her apartment, even after the altercation, at least long enough to throw on a pair of flip-flops? Why would she willingly leave the building without shoes? Was she unable to get into her apartment for some reason? It seems inexplicable to me.

The sidewalks of Smallwood and 5 North and part of the alley connecting the two units are new, well kept. Other parts not so. She didn't walk very far that night.

 

[PaulR]

I think this case might be different than most where a person OD's on drugs. And a dealer might help if called upon, simply to keep customers and collect favors that can be called in later.

Oh yes....and to keep himself out of jail for drug dealing.

How would it be different than most cases (assuming she OD'ed)?

Drug dealers don't seem particularly concerned about people they supply drugs to being found dead now.

 

[Nancysleuth]

I'm curious as to everyone's opinions on JR...

My opinion on him has always been that he is not directly involved but he is covering for something/someone and knows a lot more than he is letting on. This is based on nothing other than my opinion, mind you. I think LS was in and out of his apartment that night - before the bar, after the bar, perhaps after talking to the man at 338AM - and he knows what she doing in between and who else was involved in her night. His behavior just reminds me of the stoic best friend, and not of a guilty person, although I'm having trouble articulating exactly why. But I do wonder a lot about JW's involvement.

Just curious what everyone else thinks about the guy we know the least about!

 

[Blythe]

Who else was in town? Any visitors? Anyone there to help move out the recent graduate?
JW had graduated, right? How was he spending the last month hanging around in Bloomington?

 

[cluciano63]

I'm curious as to everyone's opinions on JR...

My opinion on him has always been that he is not directly involved but he is covering for something/someone and knows a lot more than he is letting on. This is based on nothing other than my opinion, mind you. I think LS was in and out of his apartment that night - before the bar, after the bar, perhaps after talking to the man at 338AM - and he knows what she doing in between and who else was involved in her night. His behavior just reminds me of the stoic best friend, and not of a guilty person, although I'm having trouble articulating exactly why. But I do wonder a lot about JW's involvement.

Just curious what everyone else thinks about the guy we know the least about!

Whose stoic best friend do you think he is?

 

[ingra1327]

HI. I am new here and this is my first post. I'm originally from IN, and this case was brought to my attention by a friend. I'm not normally a "sleuth", but having kids, these cases really get to me. Not sure why this one has caught my attention more than others, drawing me in to post, but perhaps it's b/c I'm getting ready to send off my second son to college....

I've tried reading here to catch up, but there is SO much info. I apologize if some of my questions have already been discussed, but her are my thoughts/questions:

1. Why did they bother going back to her apartment building? I had read that CR was attacked on the 5th floor. Is this her floor? Some have speculated she walked back to get her shoes. If she had the frame of mind to want/need her shoes, she likely would have ducked into her apartment (if it were on the same floor of the attack) and grabbed them. You'd also think that if he was really injured, she'd want to enter her apt. to get him a wet cloth, ice, band-aid, etc. Why didn't she do either of those? If she were trying to get away from the attackers, it would have been much quicker to do so by darting into her own apartment. Walking with CR on the streets, only put him at risk of being attacked again by the same crowd in the alley along the way. Therefore, the fact that she left with him seems strange to me. It doesn't seem like she feared that he would be attacked again, nor that she feared he was gravely injured, so why not stop in to get her shoes before the walk back to his place? This tells me that she wasn't headed back to her place for shoes. Maybe it was to be alone with CR and that could be why there was an argument/attack.....or maybe it was b/c she had drugs in her apt. - just speculating. <modsnip>

2. Do we know where the boys who attached CR live? Are they residents of Smallwood? I have read somewhere that they were friends of JW and also of JR - true?? If so, perhaps JR called them (or JW) stating that LS had gone to the bar with CR.

3. I don't find it odd that LS would be out with boys, even though she had a bf because lots of girls have guy friends. When I was in college 20+ years ago, I would sometimes go to a bar with guy friends (who were also friends of my bf and his roomies) if he wasn't able to go out. However, there was usually at least one other girl. It's kinda odd to me that she was the only girl, watching a game with 4 guys and presumably by that time, the game was over and her bf was done watching already - why wasn't he over there to if he knew JR?

4. I think I read that JR told Tamir he had tried preventing LS from leaving. Really? She's a very tiny girl, under the influence. He apparently didn't try very hard. If she was in as bad of shape as what has been reported by people at the bar, around 2:20, you'd think that at 4:30, she'd still be pretty bad. I don't know much about drugs....if they had done more coke, would that have helped to sober her from the effects of alcohol? It's hard to believe that she left so many personal items strung across campus, yet still had the frame of mind less than 2 hours later, to call DR from JR's phone, about her missing cell phone. That's weird to me so I don't think that call was made by her. But - are JR and DR close enough friends that he would have been solicited for a cover up of sorts?

5. I had read on another site somewhere that there are about 10 other POIs who have been kept secret. Any ideas who they could be? I think that was on Tonygatto.com

6. Regarding the "bar manager witness's" story.......I'm not sure how her timing is possible. I believe LS left her apt. complex at 2:48 and she is seen on camera walking down the alley. I read the following quote: "We know there was a visit to this apartment complex of 11th and Morton," said Bloomington police Capt. Joe Qualters. They don't say that this happened immediately after she was seen on the camera by the alley - just that it happened. If she was able to walk down that alley with someone at 2:48, would she really have time to get to the bar area by 3:38, to be slung over the shoulder of a random person back by the bars? I don't know the distance but I'm guess the bar to be about a 10 mins. walk from the alley (IF one were sober) where she was spotted. That gives her only about 30 mins. of unaccounted time. If she were already THAT trashed (which is possible), would she have even been able to make her way back there within that time frame? Maybe she did. Perhaps she went out looking for drugs for the boys. Maybe she meandered her way to get something for them, then returned to their apartment and something happened. I just am very tripped up by the timing.

I think the reason nobody has answered your questions is because we don't know the answers to many of them. These are all very good questions that have been and are currently being discussed.

 

[cluciano63]

Most of these guys seem to be 21, right? Not kids, as many people are referring to them, at least they aren't not to me. I don't think a 21-year old is a "kid"; a 17-year old, maybe. I see them as young men, spoiled, perhaps, immature possibly, and maybe not much a part of the "real, working world" but still, seeing them referred to as "kids" kind of bugs me. Think of all of the men and women you know who at age 21 have been in the military for 3 years, or are raising families.

Anyway, the prisons are full of people aged 21 and under...no reason for me to think that these young men, or another 21-year yet to be identified, could not be responsible for whatever has happened to Lauren, which likely resulted in her death.

 

[Observer33]

I think this case might be different than most where a person OD's on drugs. And a dealer might help if called upon, simply to keep customers and collect favors that can be called in later.

Oh yes....and to keep himself out of jail for drug dealing.

Why would this case be any different? Why would a dealer get himself involved with it? He is going to keep his customers either way.

This would have required a phone call....please don't speculate he was provided a cellphone from his connection. They don't do that for some low level college dealer.

If this was an OD is it no different to the hundreds that happen every year.

 

[Havana]

There are 4 names on the mailbox at JR's, correct? JR might be the only person that hadn't yet left for the summer. Therefore, he would most likely have been alone with LS. Or maybe 1, 2, or all 3 of his roommates could have been out for the night.
Let's pretend that LS is at JR's and they are alone. He didn't want to "party" so she decided to go on home. Maybe a roommate of his showed up shortly after she left, JR told the person how "out of it" she was, but he thought she would be all right to walk, etc... The other person (perhaps a roommate) is like "WHAT? you let her walk home alone?" Maybe one of them went to find/walk with her and found her around 10th and College at 3:38 or slightly before. She realized she didn't have her keys. Maybe she fell, he picked her up and took her back to JR. Once back at JR's she might have gotten sick, passed out, died. They freaked out.
I think I remember hearing that JR lives Indianapolis... maybe Michigan? Either way, he packs up his stuff and is gone (perhaps with LS in a bag/box/suitcase). He could easily drive off SR 37 east or west 15/20 minutes and be in the middle of no where, dump her, and go on home. This "exit" scenario could have happened regardless of whether or not he told anyone (a roommate helped or no one was there). The perps best bet is to say "She left my place at 4:30". Not tell a SINGLE person she died and get the he!! out of there.
I don't think a drug dealer has anything to do with it. You wouldn't have to have connections with a big time dealer to get rid of a body. There are 100's of missing people, so obviously you don't have to be all that smart to hide a body. There are 1000's of perps in jail/prison. Seemingly normal people kill people all the time or cover up an accidental death. It's unfortunate, but it happens.

 

[sv614]

I'm curious as to everyone's opinions on JR...

My opinion on him has always been that he is not directly involved but he is covering for something/someone and knows a lot more than he is letting on. This is based on nothing other than my opinion, mind you. I think LS was in and out of his apartment that night - before the bar, after the bar, perhaps after talking to the man at 338AM - and he knows what she doing in between and who else was involved in her night. His behavior just reminds me of the stoic best friend, and not of a guilty person, although I'm having trouble articulating exactly why. But I do wonder a lot about JW's involvement.

Just curious what everyone else thinks about the guy we know the least about!

I have problems with his story. For one, there is nothing official on the record. His attorney won't confirm or deny a darn thing. To me, that is suspicious vs. CR's attorney who was very vocal and available.

It is my understanding that JR left the area on the day or days immediately following LS being reported missing. Can somebody please provide a link to this information? This, too, is suspicious behavior to me.

He hired James Voyles, a suuuuuper high-profile attorney. I know that we cannot fault him for this - of course if you have the money you hire a great attorney when fingers are pointed at you in a missing person case. BUT THIS ATTORNEY?

You would think if he had nothing to hide, he would hire an extremely experienced attorney, sure ... but he would have had to realize what public perception would be after hiring MIKE TYSON'S ATTORNEY.

If he were completely innocent, you would think that any reputable, experienced defense attorney would do just fine. They are all going to give the same advice at this stage.

He needs someone to see this thing through all the way. He needs James Voyles.

Yep, just my opinion.

 

[bunnyesq.]

Who needs connections to toss a body in a car, drive 30 minutes out of town into the Hoosier National Forest and toss it out? The prisons are full of younger people that have done even more terrible things then this (assuming they did not murder her).

We find it difficult to believe because we don't want to think a group of rich college kids could do something like this. It wouldn't be the first time and definitely not the last.

Hi! Been lurking for days, finally joined!

As to disposing of a body - if there were a lot of students moving in/out around campus it might not have been very suspicious if JR (or someone else) loaded his/her car with something that LS would fit into. A few pages ago someone brought up whether college kids would have any containers that a body would fit into. I say definitely, yes. When I was away at school I had a ton of those plastic totes for bringing stuff to/from school.

 

[ingra1327]

I'm curious as to everyone's opinions on JR...

My opinion on him has always been that he is not directly involved but he is covering for something/someone and knows a lot more than he is letting on. This is based on nothing other than my opinion, mind you. I think LS was in and out of his apartment that night - before the bar, after the bar, perhaps after talking to the man at 338AM - and he knows what she doing in between and who else was involved in her night. His behavior just reminds me of the stoic best friend, and not of a guilty person, although I'm having trouble articulating exactly why. But I do wonder a lot about JW's involvement.

Just curious what everyone else thinks about the guy we know the least about!

He seems very suspicious to me because he said himself that he watched Lauren leave the last time she was seen (presumably), but hasn't said anything else about her or that night. He very quickly left town and hired a big-shot lawyer. Of course, none of these things mean he's guilty, but if he were a stoic best friend it seems he'd be offering more support to his friend.

 

[bunnyesq.]

I'm not sure what to think of the LE's tactics (not criticizing though). IMO, they arguably have probable cause to at least get a search warrant for JR's place, possibly his car as well. They obviously have more info than us - maybe some of that info exonerates JR.

 

[ingra1327]

I have problems with his story. For one, there is nothing official on the record. His attorney won't confirm or deny a darn thing. To me, that is suspicious vs. CR's attorney who was very vocal and available.

It is my understanding that JR left the area on the day or days immediately following LS being reported missing. Can somebody please provide a link to this information? This, too, is suspicious behavior to me.

He hired James Voyles, a suuuuuper high-profile attorney. I know that we cannot fault him for this - of course if you have the money you hire a great attorney when fingers are pointed at you in a missing person case. BUT THIS ATTORNEY?

You would think if he had nothing to hide, he would hire an extremely experienced attorney, sure ... but he would have had to realize what public perception would be after hiring MIKE TYSON'S ATTORNEY.

If he were completely innocent, you would think that any reputable, experienced defense attorney would do just fine. They are all going to give the same advice at this stage.

He needs someone to see this thing through all the way. He needs James Voyles.

Yep, just my opinion.

Not MSM

When I try to find out when JR left, the links lead to tonygatto.com who says that "it's becoming clear" that JW and JR left town. He then cites a radio station "confirming" JW is in NY, but no confirmation for JR. Hopefully somebody else can find a link in MSM, or maybe TG could tell us how he knows.