IN- Near Madison Dec 13,2023: Mom and her three children aged 12, eight and six - are found shot dead in burned out Indiana home

[MizStery]

Just to be clear, is there potentially a thought that mom is responsible? Are they considering that this may fall under murder -suicide?

There have been some (vague) references that mention that as a possibility. Perhaps this how ISP routinely provides community updates? Here is a quote by Sgt. Stephen Wheeles,” it's hard to put a timeframe on one we're looking at, but, hopefully, we'll be able to provide some of those critical answers sooner rather than later. But, you know, this investigation is probably going to go on for some time."
Investigation underway after 4 people found dead in burning Madison, Indiana home

realanastasia following what has been reported. Have you read any indication if the LE inquiry/investigation indicates if the mother’s death was homicide or suicide? As for now what I've seen is they are only calling it a death investigation. Which could mean anything. But I have found the reporting on main stream media is to be almost nonexistent.

Has ISP indicated if there will be a press conference updating the community on the investigation?

ISP is taking the lead on the investigation, working with partners like the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Office, State Fire Marshal’s office, coroner’s office and the prosecutor’s office.

 

[Rosydecember]

I’m sorta wondering if it’s more likely been staged to look like a murder suicide…. That’s an odd quote by the Sgt IMO

 

[MizStery]

ISP is taking the lead on the investigation, working with partners like the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Office, State Fire Marshal’s office, coroner’s office and the prosecutor’s office.

I am not in any way suggesting that The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) are or will be involved in this investigation. My question for the Webseluths community; are there circumstances where the ISP would invite the ATF to be part of their investigation? Or does this case as we currently ‘understand’ it not meet the criteria for ATF to become a part of the investigation.

 

[Rosiebones]

I think COD (cause of death) has been said to be a gunshot, however, MOD (manner of death) has not been determined. I could be accidental, homicide, suicide or undetermined.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I am not in any way suggesting that The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) are or will be involved in this investigation. My question for the Webseluths community; are there circumstances where the ISP would invite the ATF to be part of their investigation? Or does this case as we currently ‘understand’ it not meet the criteria for ATF to become a part of the investigation.

The FBI and ATF have criteria for cases they have jurisdiction over, however, the only criteria for them to assist any LE agency is for the agency to request their assistance.
MOO

 

[katydid23]

I guess if someone knew what they were doing they could stage it to look like a murder suicide?

But at the same time, a person who did a familial murder suicide, could also stage it to resemble a homicide. It could look incriminating to set a fire if the ex was a firefighter, for example.

I think LE might have a real mystery on their hands. Someone in the home, with real financial difficulties, might feel stressed enough to end it all? Or someone outside of the house might uses that circumstance as a way to state a murder/suicide?

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I guess if someone knew what they were doing they could stage it to look like a murder suicide?

But at the same time, a person who did a familial murder suicide, could also stage it to resemble a homicide. It could look incriminating to set a fire if the ex was a firefighter, for example.

I think LE might have a real mystery on their hands. Someone in the home, with real financial difficulties, might feel stressed enough to end it all? Or someone outside of the house might uses that circumstance as a way to state a murder/suicide?

Remember the LE officer who tried doing that but it was proved that he staged it, a gun was at the scene and forensics showed he did it. Even the one with the guy who had the gun taken away with a balloon got solved.
They will do a thorough job on the forensics, I think the mother would not know how to successfully stage it to "frame" anyone else.

 

[Rosiebones]

One telling fact from the autopsy would be if there was no soot in the lungs of all of them or only hers . If there is no soot in any of their lungs then they were all deceased before the fire was started. MOO MOO MOO

 

[MizStery]

The FBI and ATF have criteria for cases they have jurisdiction over, however, the only criteria for them to assist any LE agency is for the agency to request their assistance.
MOO

Thankyou! The reason I thought of ATF, “is a neighbor Ralph Dean Jr. said he heard gunshots Tuesday afternoon before the sound of an explosion. When he looked outside, he saw flames”.
Mom and her three kids are found shot dead in burned out Indiana home

‘’Because of the neighbor I immediately thought of the ‘ATF‘ primarily because of their expertise In these types of cases. I also was reading up to see if there were any similarities or any over lap to any other ongoing unsolved cases In Indiana. Sigh, in all likelihood it is a case of ‘overthinking’ on my part.

So yes your answer makes sense that ISP would have to ask ATF for assistance.

'

 

[Chimera]

Very sad. From Naomi Briner's obituary "She was preceded in death by her children". I think that tells us what happened here.

My first thought was look close at the husband, but it sounds like he had an alibi ?
Did she suffer from major depression or was there a separation/divorce about to happen ?
So sad, esp. for the innocent children.

 

[10ofRods]

I find it doubtful that this is a murder/suicide, since the house and van were set on fire. Seems to me that's the kind of thing the killer would do upon leaving. Anyway, I'm sure LE knows from the circumstances what they're dealing with.

So terribly sad.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

One telling fact from the autopsy would be if there was no soot in the lungs of all of them or only hers . If there is no soot in any of their lungs then they were all deceased before the fire was started. MOO MOO MOO

Except that she reportedly died from a gunshot, if done soon after the fire was set, or not in the same area of the house, there could be little or no evidence of her breathing after the fire was set.

 

[realanastasia]

An obituary for Naomi Briner. There is remarkable distancing between Matlocks and Briners in the writing of these obituaries. MOO MOO MOO

Obituary for Naomi Sue Briner at Madison Chapel

Ms. Naomi Sue Briner, age 35, of Madison, Indiana entered this life on January 9, 1988. She was the daughter of Jerry Lee and Kimberly Sue Smith Briner. She was raised and lived all of her life in Jefferson County. Naomi graduated in 2006 from Madison Consolidated High School and

www.morgan-nay.com

No mention of a spouse for NB (current or former), apart from the last person mentioned (who died in 2007 and who therefore is unlikely to have fathered any of the children). Briner appears to have been her last name from birth, and all the children shared it, so I am guessing that maybe she was a single mom by choice, or maybe her relationships with the children’s father(s) were not long-lived or healthy.

EDITED: the obituary was wrong about the year NB’s companion died; his obit (which lists NB as his loving companion, says he died in 2009 from “osteogenic carcinoma.” In light of a diagnosis like that, maybe he and NB did plan ahead so NB could have his children if his treatment was unsuccessful or had negative effects on his ability to reproduce. Obituary for Dustin Smith at Madison Chapel

 

[airportwoman]

One telling fact from the autopsy would be if there was no soot in the lungs of all of them or only hers . If there is no soot in any of their lungs then they were all deceased before the fire was started. MOO MOO MOO

I'm starting to think that "hers", as in a female perpetrator, might have been the oldest daughter, and that is why her obituary isn't posted yet.

I also get the impression that the mother was never married to Mr. Briner. Did anyone else notice that her "preceded in death" people included her companion, in 2007? A high school romance is my guess, ETA and I do see that he died in 2009. A typo, perhaps?

 

[katydid23]

I'm starting to think that "hers", as in a female perpetrator, might have been the oldest daughter, and that is why her obituary isn't posted yet.

I also get the impression that the mother was never married to Mr. Briner. Did anyone else notice that her "preceded in death" people included her companion, in 2007? A high school romance is my guess, ETA and I do see that he died in 2009. A typo, perhaps?

how old was the eldest daughter?

 

[beavt]

how old was the eldest daughter?

12

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> I've been freely sleuthing all over the internet on this, a crime that needs solving hasn't been announced and that leaves us with victims, 3 of which are children.

 

[Rosydecember]

I’m really obsessed with this case…. I wonder when there will be an update on this

 

[Chimera]

"Investigators have not said who they believe is responsible for the shootings, but police don’t think there’s a threat to the public."

Neighbors: things seemed ‘normal’ at house where three kids were killed

Neighbors who interacted with Briner on a regular basis said they’re shocked.

www.wave3.com

Also factor in that there doesn't seem to be a search for anyone else who might have been responsible ?
So maybe LE have an idea of what happened ?
Can't find much at all online and it's not for lack of looking around.
Omo.

 

[Chimera]

Just to be clear, is there potentially a thought that mom is responsible? Are they considering that this may fall under murder -suicide?

Good questions.
LE do not seem to be looking at anyone else yet.
Omo.