GUILTY IN - Shaylyn Ammerman, 14 mos, Spencer, 23 March 2016 #2

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That is exactly why "I read it somewhere the other day" is not going to cut it in this case. Too much bad information and just plain Baloney is out there thanks to Facebook. So while it may be annoying, particularly if you have been asked for a link to something you know darn well has been linked several times already, it is especially important to be prepared to provide it if you are stating as fact or speculating based off that information you THINK is fact.

Otherwise it will be one hot mess in here ;)
 
I'm really sorry, I really did think that it was stated as fact. I will make sure to provide a link going forward. This is the first case I have commented on much and I'm really trying hard to not mess up!
 
This case is a hot mess period!! I really do blame 99% of it on the media, like I have said over and over, there Is one story that says one thing and five minutes later you have two stories that completely and totally contradict everything the last story said!!! It's absolutely ridiculous. I just hope that no matter what, if anyone else is or was involved with what has happened to Shaylyn they are also brought to justice along with Kyle. At this point I am guessing there isn't anything that points to anyone else or at least there isn't anything being released to us yet. However, we know LE isn't always forthcoming with everything right away either. So I will sit on my hands and bite my tongue over my opinion other than to say MSM in this case is way out there! Thank goodness LE appears to be top notch! MOO
 
I'm really sorry, I really did think that it was stated as fact. I will make sure to provide a link going forward. This is the first case I have commented on much and I'm really trying hard to not mess up!

I know, we are all new at one time or another.
 
I'm way behind on this thread because I focused on a local sentencing of James VanCallis for the murder of 14-year-old April Millsap in 2014 yesterday. My upfront apologies if this has already been mentioned.

How did the family report Shaylyn missing? I know that it was @8:30 in the morning. Did someone make a 9-1-1 call or did they just call local LE? Has a recording of the missing child call been made public? :tyou:
 
We do have the best mods at WS. Thank you for keeping this a civilized place to discuss cases.
 
I know, we are all new at one time or another.

Kudos to you. I had a quite different experience when I was new here a couple of years ago, so it's good to see you being understanding.
 
I don't believe any person not known well should be allowed to be in my home, around my children. Giving a stranger an opportunity to raise red flags when it involves children is a dangerously poor choice.

Also, Grandma seems to know enough scary details about KP to have warranted her not allowing him in her home. That's two chances she had to make a safe choice... 1. Don't let strange men around this baby. 2. You've witnessed him drinking and you have knowledge of his affinity for *advertiser censored*, and you've seen him holding your grandchild. I understand about hindsight, but these are things that a baby shouldn't have to be tortured and murdered for your lightbulb go off and make you go, "ooh, yeah... That was weird."


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Did grandma know he watched *advertiser censored*? Don't LOTS of people watch *advertiser censored* in private? Would you quiz people about their *advertiser censored*-watching habits when you first met them? Would you expect them to tell you? How would YOU react if asked those things? Isn't that their personal business? Also, the baby did not live with the Dad and Grandma, so it is possible that Kyle was there often when she was NOT there. It would probably have seemed weird to say "I know you have come over here to hang out a dozen times before, but this time you can not come in because the baby is here..."
 
This article (http://www.11alive.com/mb/news/119-7-indiana-toddlers-father-im-just-devastated/102625762 ) was posted 5 days ago.


The man arrested in the death of an Indiana toddler once rocked her back to sleep, the girl's grandmother said.
Kyle Parker was in the living room of their Spencer, Ind., home when Shaylyn Ammerman awoke in her crib, so he picked her up, and lulled her into a slumber, Tamera Morgan said.
...
Adam Ammerman described Parker as a "friend of a friend" but Morgan said he had visited her house about a dozen times.
...
"He talked so kindly," said Morgan. "He played with Shaylyn."

Where does she say he was drunk when he did this?
 
Do you have a link to something official stating that they said they didn't know his last name? I can't recall them actually saying that but I may be remembering wrong. I do know that I saw them saying just his first name, but not that they didn't know it. Not knowing it and not saying it are two different things. As I said, I may have missed that, which is why I'm asking for a link, if it is actually a fact that they said that. I can't imagine them not knowing the last name of an approximately year long friend, though they may just have not mentioned it.
Thanks!

JA was interviewed and said that (a day after saying what a great friend of the family Kyle was).
 
I think a lot is getting Lost in translation. I don't think anyone is saying a person who has one or two drinks should not hold a child. Maybe some are, but I don't feel that way.

I think it's in the context of him being a virtual stranger.

I don't understand your comments comparing posts here to those horrible things said on Facebook. I for one have never seen anybody say anything that could be compared to those other posts. Am I missing something?

I recognize that this family is a little "different" at least than me, and I do think there are some instances where they haven't shown the best judgment, but I do not believe any of that is an absolute indication of guilt. Just to be clear, not everyone here thinks that because these people are a certain way that they're GUILTY. Matter of fact, I don't recall seeing anyone say that exact thing.


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A year. They knew him a YEAR and people refer to him as a stranger. I don't know about you, but I would guess that half of my friends have moved in with, or married someone they had known only a year...
 
I agree. I don't think *advertiser censored* is evil or indicates anything negative about a person. At all.

However, if grandma knew this about him, yet doesn't know much else, then that would sound an alarm to me.

If JA, who in his first phone interview, makes it clear he is claiming to not know anything about KP other than his first name, knew about KP's affinity for watching *advertiser censored*, or worse, child *advertiser censored*, then that should have spurred him to realize that maybe his daughter shouldn't be around this man.


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I think all the family could have known about his taste in *advertiser censored* was what they SAY they knew. "spanking". Not "child *advertiser censored*". Pretty much not one of those things you would go around telling people you watch, IMO. I had heard SOME friends said he liked girls who were middle-school aged, but even that is no predictor he will attack an infant.
 
A year. They knew him a YEAR and people refer to him as a stranger. I don't know about you, but I would guess that half of my friends have moved in with, or married someone they had known only a year...
I think it depends on how much time you've spent with the person, not the length of time they've known them. Sure, I moved in with my husband after less than a year of knowing him, but there are people I've known for a year that I still wouldn't be comfortable leaving a child with. I think it really is person to person.

Also, some people are just more trusting of others. My husband is so much more trusting of acquaintances and friends-of-friends, than I am.
 
I think all the family could have known about his taste in *advertiser censored* was what they SAY they knew. "spanking". Not "child *advertiser censored*". Pretty much not one of those things you would go around telling people you watch, IMO. I had heard SOME friends said he liked girls who were middle-school aged, but even that is no predictor he will attack an infant.

Except for the fact that he did. I am not saying that his *advertiser censored* habits were what should have made that family keep Shaylyn safe. I'm saying that they didn't know him at all really, yet they created and then ignored an environment that made Shaylyn easy pickings for a monster. Which could have been prevented if they had just done what any adult should know to do and not allow people they do not not well to have access to their child/grandchild. When JA or grandma decided they were not going to remain in a position to keep an eye on the baby with a stranger in the home, they should have told KP it was time to go, lock the door behind him and THEN go to bed.

This is not some outrageous overprotective set of steps. This is common sense.
 
Joining the discussion to share this article from the Indiana University newspaper regarding KP not being known around Spencer. When this was posted on the IDS fb page, a commenter mentioned KP went to school in Ellettsville and grew up in Bloomington/Ellettsville. Still curious how he got connected with AA and this family.

http://www.idsnews.com/article/2016/03/spencer-residents-try-to-make-sense-of-rape-murder-of-toddler

(I originally started reading WS when Lauren Spierer went missing and now am actively reading again because of this horrifying case so nearby. Spencer is not too far from Bloomington but yet it seems like a foreign place to me.)

It's not overly uncommon for us small towners to meet people from bigger cities nearby. I grew up spending a ton of time in Terre Haute. It was about 45 minutes away, but Terre Haute has tons of things to do compared to the town I lived in. I met a lot of new friends there in high school, but even more when I started going to college.

As far as the age difference, at first I thought it was odd that there's approximately 8 years difference between KP and AA, but then I realized my husband has acquaintances who are pretty close to KP's age. Most of them are relatives of his close friends that were probably at one point the "annoying little brother I had to bring" at some point. He's also pretty close with some of his little brother's friends who are 6-7 years younger. I think guys aren't necessarily as cautious? (can't find the right word) about their group of friends as women. IMO, of course.
 
This is from the interview with AA and JA. Sorry I can't figure out how to bold on my phone.

"I fell asleep once cause I was a little hung over and I was tired and I had just a little much over my limit and I went to bed, passed out. I got woken up because my step dad ended up screwing up our TV package on DISH and I had to fix that, that was at 1, 2 o'clock in the morning," Adam said.

Adam said at that point, Parker was still awake and was drinking by himself."

*so AA had already "passed out" once. When he awoke, his friend was drinking by himself, in his room. I'm not clear if the step-dad was still in the room at that point, but I think it's common courtesy to leave when your host passes out asleep in front of you. If they don't initiate leaving, most people, especially with a baby asleep in the next room would say hey man, I'm passing out for the night. Let's catch up soon. Then walk them to the door or direct them to the door. You don't just go back to sleep.

It sounds like stepdad also knew KP was just hanging around while AA was passed out because he was messing with the cable which is what woke AA up the first time.

Yet when AA later wakes up the second time at 3-4 am when he hears the door shut, there is no mention of stepdad still in his room. I imagine stepdad would've already left the room and gone to bed himself (if he didn't then there was no need for AA to question where Kyle was going because his stepdad would've told him if he was in the room) which means stepdad also saw that Kyle was up and drinking and AA was asleep.

So neither adult said time to wrap it up, catch ya later. Nope, they just passed out in their respective rooms/areas and let this man, the one they refer to as an "acquaintance" hang out, chillin with some whiskey, and the baby in the living room, no big deal.

Those are the facts, *advertiser censored* or not, drunk baby rocking or not. Red flag. RED FLAG! That is not responsible behavior, period. If they had said peace out KP, see you LATER dude, this little girl would still be here. They will unfortunately have to live with that guilt forever.*


“Kyle was in my room sitting in the chair, drinking and talking to people on his phone, I guess, cause I heard the tick, tick, tick texting. And, at roughly, 3, 4 o'clock in the morning, I heard the front door open and I look out my window and Kyle’s walking down the yard to his car. I open my window, I yell out to him, ‘Kyle, where are you going?’ He never answered me back. He just got in his car and took off," Adam said.

Adam said he did not see Shaylyn with Parker.

“No. I didn’t see Shaylyn at all. Then of course, I was sleepy, I had sleepy eyes, I had alcohol in me and my vision was all messed up," he said."


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If the movie was not over, I could see Kyle staying a few minutes to catch the end when JA passed out.
I can see grandpa NOT throwing out someone who had been drinking, who intended to drive home.
My daughter is in that age range, and if one of her friends was drinking, she would expect them to stay until they sobered up.
 
Bottom line, if this baby was asleep in a bedroom, she would have had some protection.

Who in the world puts a crib in the middle of a living room? I have never heard of such a thing!

A different sleeping arrangement needed to be made so this baby could get good sleep. Put the crib in the grandparents room or the brothers bedroom, just not in the open living room. Had she been in a bedroom with other people, she would still be here.

The house was too small for its occupants.

Or he would have had privacy. If he had gone into her room and closed the door, they might not even have known he was still there!

I think the baby bed was placed where it was easily accessible by any family member so they could all help care for her. It was for everyone's convenience that they kept her there. Unfortunately it bit them.
 
Did grandma know he watched *advertiser censored*? Don't LOTS of people watch *advertiser censored* in private? Would you quiz people about their *advertiser censored*-watching habits when you first met them? Would you expect them to tell you? How would YOU react if asked those things? Isn't that their personal business? Also, the baby did not live with the Dad and Grandma, so it is possible that Kyle was there often when she was NOT there. It would probably have seemed weird to say "I know you have come over here to hang out a dozen times before, but this time you can not come in because the baby is here..."

I'm having a hard time believing grandma knew about the *advertiser censored*, even if friends knew. Why would KP or AA discuss *advertiser censored* watching with grandma for any reason? How would that even come up in conversation?
 
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