In the trunk 2.6 days Decomp Info #1

[magic-cat]

I'm wondering the exact same thing. It seems to me that the trunk was normally kept very clean, there's nothing to indicated that any clean up, let alone a 'massive' clean up, took place.

I personally have come to believe that Casey is the one who did the massive cleaning of the trunk. Reason for this belief? Caylee's dead and decomposing body was lying there in the trunk and only ONE single hair from her head was found there where she lay. The fact that bodily fluids had leaked into the trunk and this was not apparent to the naked eye, but only under black light, indicates there was a cleaning. I think she took it to that carwash that she told Tony she had cleaned HIS vehicle at...Also, I think this happened when she told Amy she got rid of the smell in her car. Just an opinion...

 

[Bev]

Yes, Kajohn, the fluid leaked through the carpet onto the trunk liner.

 

[mandif3]

No murderer would "plan" to leave a murdered body in the trunk of their car for 2 1/2 days or more. Given this truth, this alleged forensic evidence is proof that no premeditated murder took place.

In other words, this alleged evidence supports the defense, not the State's murder one charge.

She was looking at missing kids sights and chloroform searches on the computer. She did not provide at all for her daughter, she left that to her parents. She has not shown one shred of compassion for Caylee since she has gone missing. Casey is such a heartless monster that she did not want Caylee and wanted to get rid of her. She killed Caylee because she was an interference to the life she wanted. She is just too damn selfish to have thought about what she was going to do to get rid of her. I think she thought that it would be easier than it was. She also was seeking instant gratification by killing Caylee. Her body could lay and wait, you know KC is much more important, numero uno. She had parties to go to, shopping to be done, dinners to be made and Fusian Ultra Lounge, oh and lots of sex to be had. Bottom line.. KC did not want or love her daughter. She was too damn selfish to give her to someone who would. If it was not intentional than she would have called 911 and shown some emotion. Which she did not. Unstead people like myself suffer the loss of an innocent child like Caylee that so many people would have been willing to care for and love, not her so called mother.

 

[mandif3]

She was looking at missing kids sights and chloroform searches on the computer. She did not provide at all for her daughter, she left that to her parents. She has not shown one shred of compassion for Caylee since she has gone missing. Casey is such a heartless monster that she did not want Caylee and wanted to get rid of her. She killed Caylee because she was an interference to the life she wanted. She is just too damn selfish to have thought about what she was going to do to get rid of her. I think she thought that it would be easier than it was. She also was seeking instant gratification by killing Caylee. Her body could lay and wait, you know KC is much more important, numero uno. She had parties to go to, shopping to be done, dinners to be made and Fusian Ultra Lounge, oh and lots of sex to be had. Bottom line.. KC did not want or love her daughter. She was too damn selfish to give her to someone who would. If it was not intentional than she would have called 911 and shown some emotion. Which she did not. Unstead people like myself suffer the loss of an innocent child like Caylee that so many people would have been willing to care for and love, not her so called mother.

Lets not forget that we are talking about a mother who expects to believe the lies that were proven to be untrue right before her face. Do you really think she is smart enough to plan the perfect murder?

 

[Chilly Willy]

I personally have come to believe that Casey is the one who did the massive cleaning of the trunk. Reason for this belief? Caylee's dead and decomposing body was lying there in the trunk and only ONE single hair from her head was found there where she lay. The fact that bodily fluids had leaked into the trunk and this was not apparent to the naked eye, but only under black light, indicates there was a cleaning. I think she took it to that carwash that she told Tony she had cleaned HIS vehicle at...Also, I think this happened when she told Amy she got rid of the smell in her car. Just an opinion...

According to the forensic report, many hairs were found, with only one showing evidence of decomp. What makes you think the stain was not visible to the naked eye? I haven't seen that said anywhere.

I think Casey told Amy she got rid of the smell as part of her cover story - to plant the idea in Amy's head that she'd hit a squirrel, the squirrel caused the odor, and the odor was gone when Casey removed the squirrel. Obviously Casey was not able to remove the odor and she knew that when she told Amy otherwise.

 

[shadow of my mind]

My partially thought out timeline using the the 2.6 days as a starting point.


I don't have a clear set date in my head as to the day Caylee died yet.
But with that said at some point Caylee after being dead for 2.6 days [60+ hours] was placed in the trunk directly on the carpet liner and left behind enough of the body causing a stain on the trunk liner or enclosed in something that leaked causing a small stain on the trunk liner. This spot after so many days of sitting in hot trunk started to smell, thus causing Casey to dump the car on the 27th of June.
Now that does not mean that the only time Caylee was in the trunk was just for a single period of time. It just means that the body or body fluids that leaked that the sample came from where at the stage of 2.6 days of decomp.
So pick a day for the death day. After about 60+ hours [2.6 days] of Caylee being dead, there was contamination to the trunk liner. If Caylee was placed back into the trunk then she had to be inside of something, that something had to be airtight and did not leak, keeping the trunk gaseous level at the 2.6 days time frame.
At this point with any new non-leaking container Caylee may have been in the trunk multiply times. At some point Caylee body was disposed. This could be before or after Casey dumped the car. The only thing about the car was that by the June 27th Casey could not stand the smell that came about because of the contact of the body or the leak from the body that had already happen after the 2.6 days [60+ hours].

Now Brian B. has the shovel day as either the 18th or the 19th of June in the afternoon for an hour. I will take the last time Caylee was seen alive the afternoon of June 16th about 1:00PM. We know that Chris S. said she was in a dark green jeep with NY plates but he cannot remember what day, 17th, 18th or 19th. I believe she may have been afraid to drive the car very much while she had a body in it. We also know that Brian B. said that Casey was out the house on June 20th with a man with dark hair that he had never seen before in a green truck. Tony admits that he went with Casey to the A’s to get gas and this was before the ‘come get me at Amscot I ran out gas’ on June 27th but he is not sure of the date, he place it between 17th and 23rd .which if you take into account Casey’s text to Amy H. about running out of gas two Fridays in a row make this date June 20th and that jives with Mr. B.’s date that he saw the green truck.
From there we have a 4 day gap in time but we know on the June 24th Casey brought the gas cans back and would not let George go in the trunk.
Then we go to the 27th of June when she dumped the car.
Now we also have 3 possible sightings of Casey in the same time period of June 21st-27th or 28th.
We also have Casey using Cindy’s car but we still do not know when this was so it may not play into this time frame at all.
That is what we have to work with. Now we can attempt to look at cell phone records, tower pings and sightings of places and times that other people have placed Casey and try to expand on the 2.6 days and come up with a workable time frame.

Possible Time Frame #1
Using the 2.6 day calculation and placing importance on the shovel Caylee died the afternoon of the 16th and Casey put her in the trunk from then to the afternoon of the 19th. That would give you your 2.6 days gaseous decomp level and this can be supported by Casey showing up at the A’s on the 19th to borrowed the shovel from Brain B. Casey then placed Caylee into something, a pool chemical container, plastic tub or wrapped really good in plastic and then puts her back in the trunk.
Casey still needed gas for either the car, the trunk, or for something else by the 20th.I believe she may have been taking Tony’s jeep out while he was in school when she was going to places like Chris S. house and wanted the gas in the cans for her car so she did not run the risk of a station attendant smelling her car if she stopped for gas at a gas station.
On the 24th either the trunk of her car was just starting to smell and she had this container with Caylee in the trunk and she did not want her father to close to see anything or smell anything.
On the 25th of June she text Amy H. about the smell as a cover in case someone did notice something but by the 27th just after getting Tony to pick her up at the Amscot lot she lets Amy H. know the mystery was solved hence she got rid of what was causing the smell ‘the dead squirrel’ story.
She may have attempted to clean the trunk leaving behind some container of cleaning solution [chloroform ?] that GA said was in the trunk, the garbage bag with a box of leftover pizza and some papers. Once she was done with her attempt at cleaning and thought that the smell would go away or start to lessen she figured she was be better off leaving the car somewhere where no one would recognize it so she left it parked at the Amscot on the morning of the 27th. I do have to wonder if she was going to try and salvage the car because she was still looking for gas cans on the 30th or she realized she would be able to use Tony’s jeep once he left on the 30th but she had to continue with the charade of needing the gas cans with Amy so to many questions would not be asked.
Before she was able to do retrieve the car it ended up being towed and that spot in the trunk just kept getting worse. She truly may have run out of gas because she had driven further than planned trying to find a location to dispose of Caylee.

Whichever the case if she went back and found the car already missing she now had another problem. Where did the car go? Casey's phone activity became more and more frenzied from that point until about 8:00PM on July 4th. We know Casey was avoiding her mother like the plague at this point. Casey was avoiding Lee as well. Cindy was making demands to see Caylee plus if Cindy was leaving messages to Casey and threatening her with car theft even before that first 911 call to get her to come home with Caylee Casey may have thought that Cindy knew more about the car then she really did.
I also believe that Casey may have not totally disposed of the body or was at least contemplating moving her at least through July 5th. The night sweats with Tony are very interesting. I have to wonder if they started after she disposed of Caylee and now she could no longer pretend to herself, at least in her own mind, that Caylee was with the nanny.

I have based this on what has been said in transcripts and taped interviews and have not taken into consideration if there is any deception in any of these people’s statements.

 

[brownup]

Zelda, you just gave me an Ah Ha moment. All along I've been running with the theory that she was using the Chloroform to knock Caylee out, but you just made me think; why would she use that?
I mean really if her ultimate goal was to have Caylee sleep so she wouldn't have to bothered with her. Why not use any number of childrens medicines that cause drowsiness? Or even adult medicines? Why go through all the hassle of making something so obscure as Chloroform? I mean anyone can go to the drug store and get some NyQuil or Benadryl both of which will knock an adult out for hours at a time.
I am now more convinced then ever that if she used Chloroform on Caylee, which i think she did, then it was with the intent to kill her and it was not an accident that happened in the process of trying to just put her to sleep for a few hours.

....the whole chloroform caylee to make her go to sleep, so she can party, or hangout or whatever has always bothered me... I dont she would do that. Speaking from experience, when I was younger I was an anxious kid, and I had a hard time sleeping on x mas eve so my mom would give me a lil bit of nyquil so I could sleep, it would be much easier for her to do that. Also I would have to believe she put the body in a blanket or towel because not even KC is that HARD where she would have NO problem moving a dead/decomposing body around or listening to her roll around..

 

[magic-cat]

According to the forensic report, many hairs were found, with only one showing evidence of decomp. What makes you think the stain was not visible to the naked eye? I haven't seen that said anywhere.

I think Casey told Amy she got rid of the smell as part of her cover story - to plant the idea in Amy's head that she'd hit a squirrel, the squirrel caused the odor, and the odor was gone when Casey removed the squirrel. Obviously Casey was not able to remove the odor and she knew that when she told Amy otherwise.

One hair showing decomp, where Caylee's little head lay...THAT is why I think the car was cleaned, and the reason I think the stain was not visible to the naked eye is because "it showed up under blacklight"...if it was visible to the naked eye, they would have called it the stain that was clearly visible...also, if I am not mistaken, and I have been before, but when she was telling Amy about "getting rid of the smell" I think she had just cleaned the car and had high hopes that the smell would dissipate after a few days. I do not think that Casey knew she could not remove the odor...I think she thought she could...by cleaning the trunk...and yes, more hairs were found, but in your normal "trunk" there would likely be hundreds of hairs, not just a scant few...judging by my own trunk and the lack of attention that we pay it.

 

[txsvicki]

I think the whole thing was very premeditated, but can't figure out how Casey messed up with allowing any evidence or odor to collect in the trunk. Could timing be the whole key to it? She had a very short period of time to do everything, and I just wonder if rigor mortis set in and Casey knew that it would make things more difficult, so she waited to transfer the body to the other location.

 

[magic-cat]

I think the whole thing was very premeditated, but can't figure out how Casey messed up with allowing any evidence or odor to collect in the trunk. Could timing be the whole key to it? She had a very short period of time to do everything, and I just wonder if rigor mortis set in and Casey knew that it would make things more difficult, so she waited to transfer the body to the other location.

You know that makes sense. If Casey had not thought it out and did not realize that rigor would make the body very stiff so much so that it is impossible to bend it in any fashion without "breaking" it, then she may not have been able to place Caylee inside of whatever she had planned to place her within. Or it may have taken her that long to get her "nerve" up for all we know. What we do know is that she is as cold and calculating as they come, and she is where she belongs ever more...:furious:

 

[EastSideOfSaddness]

I personally have come to believe that Casey is the one who did the massive cleaning of the trunk. Reason for this belief? Caylee's dead and decomposing body was lying there in the trunk and only ONE single hair from her head was found there where she lay. The fact that bodily fluids had leaked into the trunk and this was not apparent to the naked eye, but only under black light, indicates there was a cleaning. I think she took it to that carwash that she told Tony she had cleaned HIS vehicle at...Also, I think this happened when she told Amy she got rid of the smell in her car. Just an opinion...

I agree with you there magic-cat. The detectives, while interviewing AL, seemed interested in the car wash he mentioned to them. It all makes sense to me. I get the idea that KC is lazy, however, she would clean the car if it meant her going to jail.

Also, I can't get over the fact that her favorite show was CSI and the episode in April of this year had a girl named Caleigh in it who was abducted which also involved chloroform. Between the pic that RM had on his facebook that read "Win her over with Chloroform" this episode and a few google searches it may be where she got the idea.

 

[Pink Panther]

My partially thought out timeline using the the 2.6 days as a starting point.


I don't have a clear set date in my head as to the day Caylee died yet.
But with that said at some point Caylee after being dead for 2.6 days [60+ hours] was placed in the trunk directly on the carpet liner and left behind enough of the body causing a stain on the trunk liner or enclosed in something that leaked causing a small stain on the trunk liner. This spot after so many days of sitting in hot trunk started to smell, thus causing Casey to dump the car on the 27th of June.
Now that does not mean that the only time Caylee was in the trunk was just for a single period of time. It just means that the body or body fluids that leaked that the sample came from where at the stage of 2.6 days of decomp.
So pick a day for the death day. After about 60+ hours [2.6 days] of Caylee being dead, there was contamination to the trunk liner. If Caylee was placed back into the trunk then she had to be inside of something, that something had to be airtight and did not leak, keeping the trunk gaseous level at the 2.6 days time frame.
At this point with any new non-leaking container Caylee may have been in the trunk multiply times. At some point Caylee body was disposed. This could be before or after Casey dumped the car. The only thing about the car was that by the June 27th Casey could not stand the smell that came about because of the contact of the body or the leak from the body that had already happen after the 2.6 days [60+ hours].

Now Brian B. has the shovel day as either the 18th or the 19th of June in the afternoon for an hour. I will take the last time Caylee was seen alive the afternoon of June 16th about 1:00PM. We know that Chris S. said she was in a dark green jeep with NY plates but he cannot remember what day, 17th, 18th or 19th. I believe she may have been afraid to drive the car very much while she had a body in it. We also know that Brian B. said that Casey was out the house on June 20th with a man with dark hair that he had never seen before in a green truck. Tony admits that he went with Casey to the A’s to get gas and this was before the ‘come get me at Amscot I ran out gas’ on June 27th but he is not sure of the date, he place it between 17th and 23rd .which if you take into account Casey’s text to Amy H. about running out of gas two Fridays in a row make this date June 20th and that jives with Mr. B.’s date that he saw the green truck.
From there we have a 4 day gap in time but we know on the June 24th Casey brought the gas cans back and would not let George go in the trunk.
Then we go to the 27th of June when she dumped the car.
Now we also have 3 possible sightings of Casey in the same time period of June 21st-27th or 28th.
We also have Casey using Cindy’s car but we still do not know when this was so it may not play into this time frame at all.
That is what we have to work with. Now we can attempt to look at cell phone records, tower pings and sightings of places and times that other people have placed Casey and try to expand on the 2.6 days and come up with a workable time frame.

Possible Time Frame #1
Using the 2.6 day calculation and placing importance on the shovel Caylee died the afternoon of the 16th and Casey put her in the trunk from then to the afternoon of the 19th. That would give you your 2.6 days gaseous decomp level and this can be supported by Casey showing up at the A’s on the 19th to borrowed the shovel from Brain B. Casey then placed Caylee into something, a pool chemical container, plastic tub or wrapped really good in plastic and then puts her back in the trunk.
Casey still needed gas for either the car, the trunk, or for something else by the 20th.I believe she may have been taking Tony’s jeep out while he was in school when she was going to places like Chris S. house and wanted the gas in the cans for her car so she did not run the risk of a station attendant smelling her car if she stopped for gas at a gas station.
On the 24th either the trunk of her car was just starting to smell and she had this container with Caylee in the trunk and she did not want her father to close to see anything or smell anything.
On the 25th of June she text Amy H. about the smell as a cover in case someone did notice something but by the 27th just after getting Tony to pick her up at the Amscot lot she lets Amy H. know the mystery was solved hence she got rid of what was causing the smell ‘the dead squirrel’ story.
She may have attempted to clean the trunk leaving behind some container of cleaning solution [chloroform ?] that GA said was in the trunk, the garbage bag with a box of leftover pizza and some papers. Once she was done with her attempt at cleaning and thought that the smell would go away or start to lessen she figured she was be better off leaving the car somewhere where no one would recognize it so she left it parked at the Amscot on the morning of the 27th. I do have to wonder if she was going to try and salvage the car because she was still looking for gas cans on the 30th or she realized she would be able to use Tony’s jeep once he left on the 30th but she had to continue with the charade of needing the gas cans with Amy so to many questions would not be asked.
Before she was able to do retrieve the car it ended up being towed and that spot in the trunk just kept getting worse. She truly may have run out of gas because she had driven further than planned trying to find a location to dispose of Caylee.

Whichever the case if she went back and found the car already missing she now had another problem. Where did the car go? Casey's phone activity became more and more frenzied from that point until about 8:00PM on July 4th. We know Casey was avoiding her mother like the plague at this point. Casey was avoiding Lee as well. Cindy was making demands to see Caylee plus if Cindy was leaving messages to Casey and threatening her with car theft even before that first 911 call to get her to come home with Caylee Casey may have thought that Cindy knew more about the car then she really did.
I also believe that Casey may have not totally disposed of the body or was at least contemplating moving her at least through July 5th. The night sweats with Tony are very interesting. I have to wonder if they started after she disposed of Caylee and now she could no longer pretend to herself, at least in her own mind, that Caylee was with the nanny.

I have based this on what has been said in transcripts and taped interviews and have not taken into consideration if there is any deception in any of these people’s statements.

Shadow - You and I are thinking along similar lines. I agree with most of what you've theorized about. I also do not think that she was abandoning the car and had every intention to go back and get it. She must have completely panicked when she went back and saw that it wasn't there! In fact, I think that she drove by the Amscott when she left Amy's on the afternoon of the 30th and she most likely noticed then and there that it was gone!

I went back and read the Simon B transcripts and he does say there that the Amscott parking area has towing signs. I would imagine that they also have the name of the towing company. She may well have gone round to Johnson's to see if she could see the car. I realize that one of the towers near the A's is right next to Johnson's so, it's difficult to know whether she did this or not but it is a possibility.

 

[Elley Mae]

Shadow - You and I are thinking along similar lines. I agree with most of what you've theorized about. I also do not think that she was abandoning the car and had every intention to go back and get it. She must have completely panicked when she went back and saw that it wasn't there! In fact, I think that she drove by the Amscott when she left Amy's on the afternoon of the 30th and she most likely noticed then and there that it was gone!

I went back and read the Simon B transcripts and he does say there that the Amscott parking area has towing signs. I would imagine that they also have the name of the towing company. She may well have gone round to Johnson's to see if she could see the car. I realize that one of the towers near the A's is right next to Johnson's so, it's difficult to know whether she did this or not but it is a possibility.

Pink, not only did Casey go back on the 30th according to Amy's interview Casey was trying to go on the 29th but Amy (text) couldn't take her. Amy bought the gas cans on the 30th for Casey and Amy said they hung out until she went to work at 5:00 or 6:00 and then Casey left in Tony's Jeep with the gas cans. If Amy had been available on the 29th for Casy to get the car I wonder where we would be now.

 

[Intermezzo]

but one thing is very clear....there was some kind of clean up....for them to have only found one hair....

I agree. IMO the car/trunk was cleaned.
But who cleaned it? Casey? or George? after they got it back from the Towing Company.
Lee did say his dad was very meticulous about keeping their vehicles clean, he must have a variety of cleaning supplies for the vehicles in the garage.

 

[TxLady2]

I agree with that this was premeditated, but for anyone that doesn't keep in mind in Florida Murder 1/death penalty does not require proof of premediation. They only need an aggravating factor which can and does include the age of the victim and death resulting from aggravated child abuse.

Thanks for this info... I did not know that!

 

[Pink Panther]

I agree with you there magic-cat. The detectives, while interviewing AL, seemed interested in the car wash he mentioned to them. It all makes sense to me. I get the idea that KC is lazy, however, she would clean the car if it meant her going to jail.

Also, I can't get over the fact that her favorite show was CSI and the episode in April of this year had a girl named Caleigh in it who was abducted which also involved chloroform. Between the pic that RM had on his facebook that read "Win her over with Chloroform" this episode and a few google searches it may be where she got the idea.

EastSide - You don't happen to have a link to information about this episode, do you??? I'd like to read about it! I've found two other references to chloroform in CSI. One actually talks about it being used to blow out tires!!!?

 

[Intermezzo]

no no, she did not want to knock out the baby, she wanted to kill her. I beleive she summarily chloroformed that child either by shutting her in the trunk with a rag and walked away, or she put it over her mouth until she died.

you don't chloroform your baby period.

there was no reason to do this, she could have simply dropped Caylee off with her mother and run off to do whatever she pleased.

she killed the baby out of spite, hatefulness and selfishness.

there is no way you can paint this as a nice accident, it was 1st degree murder of the most vicious kind against a helpless innocent.

My thoughts keep going back to the fight on Father's day between Cindy and Casey. Considering it had to do with Casey stealing from the grandparents Assisted Living account I believe it was a very heated arguement like the neighbor stated.
If I remember correctly, Cindy had to convince her parents not to press charges against Casey. I'm wondering if Cindy finally gave Casey an ulitmatum that night, like get your act together or we will go to court and get custody of Caylee and show you're an unfit mother. That would fit in with Cindy's 911 call when she said "I've already given you a month"

What keeps nagging at me is just how angered was Casey after this fight? Angry enough to do harm to Caylee? It was reported she wanted to go to Tony L's apartment, he said yes but Caylee could not come over. Did that anger her even further?

 

[kiki the parrot]

Intermezzo: My thoughts keep going back to the fight on Father's day between Cindy and Casey. Considering it had to do with Casey stealing from the grandparents Assisted Living account I believe it was a very heated arguement like the neighbor stated.
If I remember correctly, Cindy had to convince her parents not to press charges against Casey. I'm wondering if Cindy finally gave Casey an ulitmatum that night, like get your act together or we will go to court and get custody of Caylee and show you're an unfit mother. That would fit in with Cindy's 911 call when she said "I've already given you a month"

What keeps nagging at me is just how angered was Casey after this fight? Angry enough to do harm to Caylee? It was reported she wanted to go to Tony L's apartment, he said yes but Caylee could not come over. Did that anger her even further?

I, too have focused in on the fight and KC's plans that night--particularly since latest theory being tossed about re KC being told by TL she could come over eve of June 15 but only "w/out Caylee." My post was corrected and I was informed that it was not TL but the other TonyR who said this? Although I had my doubts it was immaterial since I was still left asking the question: If true, that it was after the fight on night of June 15, then are we to believe GA who, for all his public denial has been otherwise officially cooperative w/ LE, is lying re seeing Caylee alive and well the am of June 16? JMO

 

[Bev]

We don't know if there was a fight on Father's Day.

 

[Clock's Tickin]

OK....I hate to even go here, because the thought absolutely turns me inside out.....but what if???......Lets pretend that Caylee was found by KC after some kind of accident (be it drowning, OD, whatever)...what if KC believed her child deceased (couldn't find a pulse/hear a heartbeat...) and she put her in the trunk. What if Caylee was salvageable at that point....and maybe even for a few days.....this could also push the timetable....once decomp began, KC tried to dispose of her---first thought, bury her under her fave playhouse--but surety of her eventually being unearthed drove her to package the remains and find an alternate disposal...??