Interim discussion regarding questions from the jury and Arias on the stand #79

[Isabelle]

You mean as one in the chamber and an empty clip? I suppose possible but with all the planning and gas cans and such, I do think she would have checked...brings a whole new meaning to being blond.

The clip was in the gun and to Jodi that meant it was loaded! Not very good planning on her part!

 

[ToothPickle Sticks]

that's when he called her a sociopath and said she was the worst thing that ever happened to him, she'd hurt him more than anyone ever had, etc.

Thanks!

 

[bpinkbinkie]

These are some of the exhibits from the suicide talk.
Sorry, I didn't put exhibit numbers on them.

I see Esther's name in there!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I am obsessed with Esther. :what:

JusticeJunkie, you beat me to it.

 

[OldCarGal]

Can a witness be in the court room?

I think only the victims immediate family is allowed to be in the courtroom and allowed to testify.

 

[JayB12]

Can a witness be in the court room?

I was being facetious but you never know in AZ.

Instead of the judge reading the jurors questions, it would have been great to see the psycho read them herself.

 

[Davia18]

I think that's what frightens me the most about her. She will NEVER have remorse for killing Travis. She will never CARE. That's so sad to me.

It's almost impossible to believe there are people like this in the world. But I guess it's true.

I agree, it is very disheartening that even if gets the DP she will still feel she has won, because regardless TA never got to get married, have children and find happiness without her. She got to be the last person he ever talked to, had sex with, and so on.
Breaks my heart :sad:

 

[Hopeful One]

I see Esther's name in there!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I am obsessed with Esther. :what:

JusticeJunkie, you beat me to it.

I thought I knew this case almost inside and out but who is Esther??

 

[StephanieHartPI]

The interesting part of the Trial is yet to come. We now know the Jury is very intuitive. They asked incredible questions that indicate they are questioning her elaborate story to cover up a stalker like horrendous murder.

The Psychologist and Domestic Violence Expert would be told they cannot watch any part of the Trial because they are called as a Witness (and they both examined Jodi) They both submitted reports. Reports are shared with the Prosecutor.

One of a few things will happen. They will testify she "is" suffering from PTSD and she has Battered Women syndrome.

If they indicate they "believe" her that Travis was abusive and she was under his control and he was a batterer..

I guarantee this.. That DV Experts reputation and work will go right down the toilet. That is the risk of testifying in a case "for" the Defendant that we now know revealed herself to be a cold blooded killer and she is the abuser.

Nobody will trust this Psychologist, OR the DV experts judgement. If they believe her then they basically believe whatever they are told.

In a case such as this if Laviolette sides with her (and in siding with her you are saying, she should go free) Look for her speaking engagements and books sales to end. WHO could trust her...

I wonder what they would do or how they would feel if they were following along and were not supposed to? And they grossly changed their mind about her?

Can anyone speak to that? What if they want to back off some of what they have concluded? What happens?

 

[Quester]

Wait,Didn't she read from them from the stand?

Suicide notes were presented to JA so she could ID them.
Nurmi cued somber music to be played over the loud speakers.

JA slowly perused the suicide notes, feigned misty eyes, sad face, retrieved a tissue, dabbed dry eyes/nose, lifted her sad face and sadly exclaimed that those were indeed the suicide notes she wrote and left with Grandmama.

Nurmi turned off somber music.
Judge denied admittance of suicide notes.

[OK - so I embellished a bit! :giggle:]

 

[sassy_texasbelle2]

Well, when Juan asked her to expand on her familiarity with guns, she said (paraphrasing) that she basically learned enough to point and shoot. So...

She tossed this off pretty nonchalantly, too. I just keep shaking my head.

Also, I think she had stabbed him first and maybe even slit his throat. I keep feeling like the gunshot was basically to (I am so sorry to type this) finish him off. I seem to think the ME mentioned he might already have been dead when shot, but I am not sure I'm remembering that correctly.

I have always been a stab first too.

 

[Mormon Attorney]

Interesting and expecting a lot of hate mail, not from you, what is your take on Juan? He seemed all to willing to get on that Merry-go-round with JA, after all he was asking the questions and seemed to spend 15 minutes per question with needless arguing, not like the Judge who got through questions efficiently. I wish he was harder, to me he came off as petty on so many minute points and did not drive home the big ticket items.

Honestly, I was amazed at how he knew exactly what to do with this personality. It is something I have learned as a "therapeutic parent" and was literally delighted that he understood how he needed to handle her. Here are some examples:

1. Non-sense lying is for control. JA has no respect for anyone but herself. She is smarter than anyone. To keep control, she lies even when it does not benefit her. Not only that, but it is a "test" to see if those interacting with her are smart enough to catch it. If they don't catch her, she sees them as worthless and stupid. If they do catch her and hold her accountable, they gain her respect (even though she still feels brighter). JM showed her right at the outset that he could catch her on EVERY SINGLE lie and that he could prove it. He gained her respect - that's why she looked like she enjoyed it. She finally met a worthy opponent, not just another person who feel for her stuff. Without talking bad about Nurmi, he has obviously fallen for her stuff and has not taken her to task. She does not respect him. If you notice, she tests him all the time by controlling their direct and he lets her do it. Even when he tries to give her answers, she won't always take them. Control, even when it doesn't help her. Nurmi has failed her test. Honestly, I believe she has felt "safer" with JM because he earned her respect, as opposed to Nurmi who has not earned her respect and does not have leadership with her. It literally must be scary for someone like her to be in Nurmi's hands when he has failed her tests. (And, just to clarify, as her own attorney, he did not catch the gas can stuff, he failed to see the margins of the magazines - she has gotten the best of him many times on things he could have helped her on but she didn't trust him).

2. Authority. Once JM establishes control - which is essential - he must keep it. Notice that he constantly says to her, "Mam, did I ask you if you....." when she adds to questions. He is jerking the choke chain, letting her know he is still in control and she is out of line. She bulks back at him a few times, but eventually she does submit.

3. Follow through. JM also taught her from the outset that he will never bluff. Lots of attorneys bluff or hint at evidence that may or may not come in. But, every single time she has lied and he has caught her, he has followed it through ALL THE WAY until the bitter end. In every case, she has not gotten out of it without having to face that she was caught. While this irritated some people, especially when the point was useless, it was essential with her personality that he prove his worthiness to her. One of the reasons he was able to crack her was that she now is somewhat afraid of playing the same antics (not that she won't) because she knows he will prove whatever he brings up. As a result, she is giving up much sooner than in the beginning. Notice that in the interviews with Detective Flores, even when he had actual pictures, she would say "That looks like me. How can that be?" Even photo proof didn't stop the lies. Now, JM has shown her that he will prove each and every detail and it takes the fun out of trying to lie and control him.

4. He never got flustered. As a parent, this is one thing we learn right away. To have calm control. The moment we get angry or hostile or snooty, the child has "won" in their war of control. If they can control your emotions, often that is what makes them feel powerful - it often has nothing to do with the actual outcome of events. Controlling you and your emotions is sufficient to make them feel safe and in charge (also unteachable). By remaining calm, even though animated and sometimes aggressive, he never gave her the feeling of control. Even when he had to follow endless stupid rabbit trails that outsiders thought made him look like a fool, he maintained composure and saw it to the bitter end. That is critical.

In sum, I have honestly wondered who trained him and how he had the faith to do that right. It is very hard and I am sure he had to feel stupid chasing those leads all the way to the end. But, he taught her to respect him. He taught her that he had control. And, every time she is out of line, he jerks her chain again and she often submits. I think it has been brilliant and I am just glad the jury could see it.

Just want to say - as a therapeutic parent - I often have to handle lying and violence with the same calm and be willing to calmly go through lies until we get to the truth. BUT, as parents, we are also therapeutic and giving love because our goal is to change the outcome. So, I don't want anyone to read this and think that we, as parents, need to "jerk our child's chain" as JM has done with JA. He is obviously not trying to therapeutically parent -grin! He is going for pure control and I am amazed at how well he has done it.

 

[Hopeful One]

I agree, it is very disheartening that even if gets the DP she will still feel she has won, because regardless TA never got to get married, have children and find happiness without her. She got to be the last person he ever talked to, had sex with, and so on.
Breaks my heart :sad:

I agree. Thinking about this has taken over me. I have to try not to think about it because it's so sad. Poor Travis.

 

[StephanieHartPI]

Can Mr Martinez turn both Experts against Jodi (in an honest way) by allowing them to talk then presenting them with the new things uncovered?

Giving them a chance to change some info they thought about her?

 

[JayB12]

The interesting thing about bank/card statements is that sometimes the vendor will process a transaction and it won't be posted until a day or two after the transaction. It happened to me once where I bought something on a credit card and it didn't show up until 2 weeks later.

I bet the DT tries to use that angle somehow...like the 3 SLC transactions are a posting error.

 

[bpinkbinkie]

I thought I knew this case almost inside and out but who is Esther??

That's what we were trying to figure out.

Jodi slipped Esther into her testimony as the person Travis used Astroglide with.

 

[atthelake]

These are some of the exhibits from the suicide talk.
Sorry, I didn't put exhibit numbers on them.

I have learned so much technology here. Can you tell me how you do screenshots and save them to your computer.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

 

[Davia18]

I think he meant he'll check the tank size.

However, I'm not Steely and who knows what goes on inside that head of his. :floorlaugh:

True True :blushing: sorry steely :blushing:

If I was on the jury and had the time and money, I would take that drive with 3 gas cans MOO

Also I would really really like someone to go find that gun PLEASE & THANK YOU

 

[LambChop]

Yes, she was reading them to herself, but I don't think they were entered. I thought JM opposed to their admission since she never acted on the suicide...or something funny to that effect.

It appears she's not as good at suicide as she is at murder. jmo

 

[JusticeJunkie]

I thought I knew this case almost inside and out but who is Esther??

Hi HOpe,
During her testimony, Arias said Esther had bought Travis the Astroglide. (sp)
Since it's also an ingredient, some thought she was not specifically speaking of a PERSON, but the way she worded it, it sounded like a girl Travis had previously had sex with.

 

[kscornfed]

I don't think anyone got to read her suicide notes. Nurmi compared timelines to diary, I may have this wrong though.
Imho, Jodi used that as a tool to keep Travis and cover her rear--most people don't talk--they just do it. Wasn't it said that every time TA tried to break up, she threaten to kill herself? Jodi seems to never let anyone go in her life, none of her exes--till she is over them by hopping onto something better--even then, keeping the formers on a string one way or another. Must have been quite strange for her getting dumped by TA.

or she wrote them about 2 years ago and they're total bull****. that's my guess.

hey, i wrote a message to you on the closed thread about the karen harkness murder. she was a friend of mine in high school. hope you saw it.