Interim discussion regarding questions from the jury and Arias on the stand #79

[Hopeful One]

Honestly, I was amazed at how he knew exactly what to do with this personality. It is something I have learned as a "therapeutic parent" and was literally delighted that he understood how he needed to handle her. Here are some examples:

Respectfully snipped for space.

Again, such an insightful post with great information I would never have thought of on my own. You are such an asset to WS.

 

[Isabelle]

Question: Does MM live in Sacramento, CA? Thanks

 

[manzana]

The 25 cal shell is very small and dosen't do much damage.If Travis was shot anywhere else on his body other than in the skull it wouldn't have stopped him at all..The picture you see in the crime scene of the spent shell casing looks a lot bigger than they actually are.

Had Grampa Arias had hollow points, it would have been all over in the one shot, that is what I have in my 25, makes it a whole lot more lethal, my 380 has normal ones as it does have more stopping power

 

[Nezumi]

Didn't you just love Juan's objection to them? Pretty much said, well, since she's not dead, she didn't follow through on them, so not admissible!! LOL

Yes, loved that! I just mis-heard one of the THs and thought he said "Whomp" Martinez. After yesterday though, I think it's quite fitting! Go Juamp Martinez!

 

[atthelake]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! :blowkiss:

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

 

[Love Never Fails]

do we know anything about matt McCarthy? has anyone posted anything about him at all? is he even on the witness list??

I think his name is actually Matt McCartney, not McCarthy. On defense witness list. Told investigators in January he would lie for Jodi. They used to date. He is married and may be rethinking lying for a killer, regardless of whether she is is friend. Speculation that he and Jodi conspired to forge letters about pedophilia from Travis. Letters proven to not be in Travis' handwriting. Don't know why he is important since both sides would declare him a liar. But JM keeps bringing up his name. Something is up.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

I posted this on the last thread....bringing it forward...

Are her grandparents still alive? If so, have either been to the trial? I still want to see those supposed suicide letter!!

There is a woman that sits with the twins at times. She has reddish hair and looks like ,but older. I've wondered if she's their mother or older sister.

 

[atthelake]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! :blowkiss:

We would have ignored you on your day after your birthday, but we just cannot stand to see you cry!

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[JusticeJunkie]

Honestly, I was amazed at how he knew exactly what to do with this personality. It is something I have learned as a "therapeutic parent" and was literally delighted that he understood how he needed to handle her. Here are some examples:

1. Non-sense lying is for control. JA has no respect for anyone but herself. She is smarter than anyone. To keep control, she lies even when it does not benefit her. Not only that, but it is a "test" to see if those interacting with her are smart enough to catch it. If they don't catch her, she sees them as worthless and stupid. If they do catch her and hold her accountable, they gain her respect (even though she still feels brighter). JM showed her right at the outset that he could catch her on EVERY SINGLE lie and that he could prove it. He gained her respect - that's why she looked like she enjoyed it. She finally met a worthy opponent, not just another person who feel for her stuff. Without talking bad about Nurmi, he has obviously fallen for her stuff and has not taken her to task. She does not respect him. If you notice, she tests him all the time by controlling their direct and he lets her do it. Even when he tries to give her answers, she won't always take them. Control, even when it doesn't help her. Nurmi has failed her test. Honestly, I believe she has felt "safer" with JM because he earned her respect, as opposed to Nurmi who has not earned her respect and does not have leadership with her. It literally must be scary for someone like her to be in Nurmi's hands when he has failed her tests. (And, just to clarify, as her own attorney, he did not catch the gas can stuff, he failed to see the margins of the magazines - she has gotten the best of him many times on things he could have helped her on but she didn't trust him).

2. Authority. Once JM establishes control - which is essential - he must keep it. Notice that he constantly says to her, "Mam, did I ask you if you....." when she adds to questions. He is jerking the choke chain, letting her know he is still in control and she is out of line. She bulks back at him a few times, but eventually she does submit.

3. Follow through. JM also taught her from the outset that he will never bluff. Lots of attorneys bluff or hint at evidence that may or may not come in. But, every single time she has lied and he has caught her, he has followed it through ALL THE WAY until the bitter end. In every case, she has not gotten out of it without having to face that she was caught. While this irritated some people, especially when the point was useless, it was essential with her personality that he prove his worthiness to her. One of the reasons he was able to crack her was that she now is somewhat afraid of playing the same antics (not that she won't) because she knows he will prove whatever he brings up. As a result, she is giving up much sooner than in the beginning. Notice that in the interviews with Detective Flores, even when he had actual pictures, she would say "That looks like me. How can that be?" Even photo proof didn't stop the lies. Now, JM has shown her that he will prove each and every detail and it takes the fun out of trying to lie and control him.

4. He never got flustered. As a parent, this is one thing we learn right away. To have calm control. The moment we get angry or hostile or snooty, the child has "won" in their war of control. If they can control your emotions, often that is what makes them feel powerful - it often has nothing to do with the actual outcome of events. Controlling you and your emotions is sufficient to make them feel safe and in charge (also unteachable). By remaining calm, even though animated and sometimes aggressive, he never gave her the feeling of control. Even when he had to follow endless stupid rabbit trails that outsiders thought made him look like a fool, he maintained composure and saw it to the bitter end. That is critical.

In sum, I have honestly wondered who trained him and how he had the faith to do that right. It is very hard and I am sure he had to feel stupid chasing those leads all the way to the end. But, he taught her to respect him. He taught her that he had control. And, every time she is out of line, he jerks her chain again and she often submits. I think it has been brilliant and I am just glad the jury could see it.

Just want to say - as a therapeutic parent - I often have to handle lying and violence with the same calm and be willing to calmly go through lies until we get to the truth. BUT, as parents, we are also therapeutic and giving love because our goal is to change the outcome. So, I don't want anyone to read this and think that we, as parents, need to "jerk our child's chain" as JM has done with JA. He is obviously not trying to therapeutically parent -grin! He is going for pure control and I am amazed at how well he has done it.

THIS is one of the best, most insightful posts I have read. Thanks is not enough.

 

[Davia18]

Suicide notes were presented to JA so she could ID them.
Nurmi cued somber music to be played over the loud speakers.

JA slowly perused the suicide notes, feigned misty eyes, sad face, retrieved a tissue, dabbed dry eyes/nose, lifted her sad face and sadly exclaimed that those were indeed the suicide notes she wrote and left with Grandmama.

Nurmi turned off somber music.
Judge denied admittance of suicide notes.

[OK - so I embellished a bit! :giggle:]

Then went right back to blabble blabble blabble and tears where gone just like that. On :cry: Off :happy: On :cry: Off :happy:

 

[kscornfed]

Well, when Juan asked her to expand on her familiarity with guns, she said (paraphrasing) that she basically learned enough to point and shoot. So...

She tossed this off pretty nonchalantly, too. I just keep shaking my head.

Also, I think she had stabbed him first and maybe even slit his throat. I keep feeling like the gunshot was basically to (I am so sorry to type this) finish him off. I seem to think the ME mentioned he might already have been dead when shot, but I am not sure I'm remembering that correctly.

she actually said she was 'relatively familiar' with guns. whatever that means.

it's jodi speak. a new language we're learning.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Folks please stop blowing the margins.

 

[kaRN]

Exactly. This girl runs her own show. I think it's clear that the only reason she asked to act as her own counsel for that brief period was because her attorneys refused to try to enter what they knew (or very strongly suspected) were forged letters and she was not willing to concede them.

Can you imagine what this trial would look like if she was still acting as her own counsel?? :what:

 

[raisincharlie]

It appears she's not as good at suicide as she is at murder. jmo

Those razor blades sting, so she says...such a shame that she is such a coward when it comes to herself.

 

[ToothPickle Sticks]

These are some of the exhibits from the suicide talk.
Sorry, I didn't put exhibit numbers on them.

I'd love to have access to read that journal cuz I am nosy! :blushing:

 

[LambChop]

Suicide notes were presented to JA so she could ID them.
Nurmi cued somber music to be played over the loud speakers.

JA slowly perused the suicide notes, feigned misty eyes, sad face, retrieved a tissue, dabbed dry eyes/nose, lifted her sad face and sadly exclaimed that those were indeed the suicide notes she wrote and left with Grandmama.

Nurmi turned off somber music.
Judge denied admittance of suicide notes.

[OK - so I embellished a bit! :giggle:]

Thanks. You painted such a tender moment. Now back to reality. lol

 

[nightwatch]

How many find it shocking that Jodi's Defense team, given 3.5 years, had not gotten a copy of her Washington Mutual Credit Card statement. And if they had, they didn't dissect the transactions on the exact days before during and after the Murder? Of all people, they had first dibs to gather this information? I would think Bank records would be the first thing she turned over. IF they knew about 3 gas cans (and they are arguing there are 2, but not anymore, they are caught) IF they knew about 3, they would simply have a story made up about it. They would work with the information and excuse it away. As it stands, this is two or three fold "bad". First she is caught in a blatant Lie. Most serious offense on the stand for a Defendant is getting caught in a lie. This lie her team could have worked with if she just told them everything.

i agree, telling lies to the jury's faces is not a good look, so to speak. i can't imagine what she told her lawyers last night.

OT: right there with you working may co. through school. GO BURINS!

 

[SunDawnn]

it goes beyond speculation to me. it's circumstantial evidence. things can be inferred from it that make it more than pure speculation, IMO, at least. same with her grandparent's stolen gun. she gets that scathing message from TA on 5/26. on 5/28 the gun is 'stolen'. on 6/2, she leaves on her murder trip. it's more than speculation that gun came from the burglary to me. and nobody will say TA even OWNED a gun. to conclude he did would be taking her word for it with no corroboration. THAT'S speculation.

Very true!!!

Howeva.....Juan wants to up the ante and PROVE what he can.

And given what he has to work with (which is this person named Jodi) he wants to prove she constantly and consistently lies.

He can't prove she was involved in the stolen gun caper or that she used the extra gas to avoid detection but he CAN prove, she's a bold face liar.

So when the jury contemplates and puts EVERYTHING together they will undoubtedly conclude, they can't trust anything spewing from this person.

And that's the road in which he's taking.

 

[Clue Finder 55]

You are absolutely right. But what I am trying to say is that the smoke smell had to OVERPOWER the smell of gas.

And I am just not seeing that smoke transfer would permeate the car enough to coverup that gas smell.

But that's to say that there was in fact a gas smell to coverup...that's my assumption. I know what my garage smells like when there is gas stored in it, especially in the heat. These gas cans were in that car, in various states of full to empty, for 5 days in high heat part of the time.

I just can't get over the fact the car would have to smell...and what better way to cover up that smell than with cigarette smoke.

But of course, that doesn't mean you have to agree with me either. That's why this forum is so great - reading theories, since much of what we post is just that barring real evidence.

Im sure burning rubber floor mats would probaly stink up the car.
If the windows were down and a slight wind blowing towards the car would make it stink of smoke

 

[carnnell]

It appears she's not as good at suicide as she is at murder. jmo

It is not common for those individuals with Narcissistic characteristics to commit suicide They tend to threat it to manipulate others. They are users looking at the world and everything in it to service them.