Interim discussion regarding questions from the jury and Arias on the stand #82

[minor4th]

Ok. So let's go for five (5) instances. Most of them questionable, none of them corroborated. So, what then? What do we have? Nothing. JA lying on the stand.

But no. Let's take it a step further. Let's say that these five incidents were genuine. Real. True. Let's take them at HYPOTHETICAL value.

Do they constitute "reasonable" self defence for someone stabbing 29 times and shooting someone in the head?

JA has pleading guilty of killing TA.

So...She's "self-defending" as PTS victim (of five highly questionable instances) ?

I'm lost.

If we've come to this point in the criminal justice system that even photographs of the murderer and his/her victim won't suffice, imo, we are truly scrd. (spelling error intended).

moo

Even if every one of the incidents were true, that is not a pattern of abuse that would have made her reasonably fear for her life on June 4 -- and even if there were a pattern of abuse, Jodi's description of the killing does not describe self defense because she has told us nothing about her state of mind when she stabbed Travis, and supposedly she shot him by accident, not in self defense.

 

[nightwatch]

It is quite obvious these events did not occur as she is relating them. Yes that tile floor is hard, she would have some bruising, soreness and if she hit her head could possibly have a concussion. Yet she is able to get up, stab him 29 times, slash his throat, drag him back to the shower and shoot him. Then she cleans up, puts a load int the washer, and drives to Utah that night.

If this isn't premeditated murder I don't know what is.

MOO

ja's whole i can't remember story is a lie. i think ja had a clean set of cloths on when she left ta's house. ja also locked ta's bedroom door. why lock his bedroom door? it's a small detail but big enough that i think ja was clear headed during the murder and when she left mesa. :moo:

 

[minor4th]

The way I remember it, this one she pulled out of thin air while testifying about the murder. It was the time "he almost killed" her. Choked her to unconsciousness. It literally made me go 'WHAT". If she'd ever said it before that, I didn't hear it. She said it happened in April.

It was like 'oh rats! I forgot to tell them about the worst time! Damn!!" So she just stuck it in.

Kind of like the marriage proposal she just remembered to mention.

Well, that would explain why I thought I missed that testimony -- if she just threw in this extra "incident" to bolster her supposed fear for her life. Kind of like the marriage proposal and also like the sudden recollection of him grabbing her as she ran down the hall after he was banging his head on the door.

Did anyone else happen to catch the choking testimony before she started narrating the murder events?

 

[Keebler]

The DA have four (count 'em 4) instances that JA has cited as "abuse"? Right. NOT one single person is available to corroborate. Not one. The four incidents at best (apart from the "finger breaking" one) could well be part of any passionate (albeit stupid) relationship. I know lots of wonderful people who have, on occasion behaved stupidly/out of character. That's it. She's basing a post-traumatic-stress reaction of 4 (count them - really, four) incidents. She may have been offended my other things like the porch/toblerone incident, but who says that's "assault"? Only JA does. How do we know that it wasn't just one of her sex fantasies? Her own sex tape clearly shows her proclivity for being "debased". Her words, not mine.

MOO

I also find it telling that she took no photos of her alleged injuries...she took pictures of everything, if she had been abused, you better believe there would be pics...tells you right there that's a lie.

 

[panthera]

Every disparing thing she says about Travis is total Bull S_hit! DP, PLEASE!

Playing devil's advocate for a moment and assuming any of it is true, it speaks volumes to JA's character to continually stalk him, and want to be with him. How many women in their right mind are sexually attracted to a man who they claim is a pedophile?

She is not making herself look very good with these allegations against Travis.

MOO

 

[borndem]

I wonder how her parents feel now! Now now what she is capable of. Her mom was the one I read that asked detectives if they found the gun she bought. Does anybody know why?

Hmmmm. I didn't see that, katiedid2 -- Interesting. I could be sizing her mom up totally wrong, but I think she must have wanted to use the word, "bought" to emphasize that the gun was not stolen.

And I wonder every time I see a shot of her mom & aunt in that courtroom, what they are thinking.... Do they believe anything their daughter/niece says is true? Or do they just know her & know she is lying and is a cold-blooded killer?

 

[atthelake]

I am just gonna pop this in wherever it happens to fall -- I copied post #1376 by Arishia (thank you, Arishia for finding & posting it), from Interim Discussion thread #81. I also saw it attributed back to LizardQueen on post #1504, thread 81 (previous thread).

Thanks to both of you! Also I hope it is okay that I continued it over on this thread. Again, I just think it is essential that all folks see it.

I had not seen it; somehow I totally missed it -- I've stayed so far behind & have had to skip around to kind of keep up with the amazing posters on this the most fast-paced board I have ever seen.

I thought that others may not have seen this critical piece of writing from TA to JA, and my eyes got bigger & bigger as I read it, and it put me in tears.

His words to JA put her slow burn into high gear, IMO, and maybe, if it's possible, scared her a little bit. She knew she was now "justified" in making & refining her plans to take care of the ONLY man who ever broke it off with her, who ever realized he could live without her, etc., etc. It made me cry realizing that the words were just the push her psychopathic button needed to really turn the evil to the "on" position.

In no way did those honest words to her deserve the evil that she brought to bear on him that day; he suggested how she might try to make things better -- he gave her a chance to come away from it.

She gave him nothing but death when she visited him on her planned last trip to see him. As much as she had hurt him, he still was willing to offer her a sort of "out." Such a good man. He was moving on, cutting his losses, and was willing to let the past remain in the past. He just wanted her to do the same. Oh, my.




==============================================
Originally Posted by Arishia →This is something I copied from another person's post to WS.
These are all FROM Travis TO JA
April 2008 (I think - if not, its close)
(illegible) you have that
information. its 15 minutes it
would take to gt the info.
But you won't take 15
minutes. Why because it is
an Fing lie. So either text
me you that you are ready
to tell the truth or give me
your imaginary friend with
the worst BS story you have
ever told or leave me alone.
Its a lie like no other. It is
freaking foolish. There is no
way out of it, you have
screwed up your story so
bad you can't mend it. You
are caught. When will you
realize that. I do not know.
You have til tomorrow. to
have me this persons
information before I tell all
of the hughes' leslie udy,
the freemans, your parents
and anyone else that
matters about all the crazy
things you have done. So
either fess up or feel the
wrath. No matter how bad
the truth is I promise you
the punishment will be
better than the lie. This is
worse than your magical
email that a mysterious man
you've never seen before
wrote for you. You insult me
by thinking ill believe such
crap. nothing else from you
til the truth. I already know
your lying so why continue.
After tomorrow, its gonna
get real bad for you. Time to
spit it out.
-----------------------------
These 3 are all part of one long text,
no replies from JA in between:
05/26/08 at 07:59:15am
I sent you a response to
your dire conversation, that
I hope youread because
you need to read it. Maybe
it will spark human emotion
in you, something that only
seems to exist when it
comes to your own
problems. But everyone
else is just a part of your
sick agenda. By the way,
your pic comment to Danny
Jones makes you look like a
pure *advertiser censored*, even more to
the people who know you.
You should be embarrassed
by it. If he knew what I knew
about you he'd spit in ur
face. Sow ould everyone
else. I have never never in
my life been hurt so bad by
someone. But why do I
even say it because you
don't care. It doesn't serve
your evilness.
05/26/08 at 08:35:02am
You couldn't get off your
lazy butt to to read it could
you. That's the sociopath (I)
know so well. it freakin
figures
05/26/08 at 09:11:11am
I don't want your apology I
want you to understand
what I think of you. I want
you to understand how evil I
think you are. You are the
worst thing that ever
happened to me.
===============================================

At the very beginning of the trial, I remember she said the reason that she did this was because he attacked her. In my opinion, she was referring to he attacked her with words. What I had never noticed were the words that she used in this. That the spitting in the face. And remember how she said on stand the other day that he was spitting, no it was water perhaps!

As we have all been saying, mark her words. Everything she says has something to do with something in the past it seems.

Moo

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

 

[kscornfed]

In answer to a juror question, Jodi described how Bobby had choked her too, and she called police. Asked why there was no police report, she said that Bobby called them back and reported it as an errant call. No way the dispatcher would say, "All-righty then, y'all have a nice day" and officers wouldn't come check it out.

OMG, this was one of my favorites!! Thanks because I'd almost forgotten this little gem. This is why she didn't call 911 on big mean TA. Because it didn't do any good the last time.

Oh, and I forgot the secret gun. The reason she came up with to cut JM off from saying there was no gun registered in TA's name. It's a secret! SSSSHHHH!

 

[Nezumi]

If we've come to this point in the criminal justice system that even photographs of the murderer and his/her victim won't suffice, imo, we are truly scrd. (spelling error intended).

moo

Amen.

 

[Callisto]

The way I remember it, this one she pulled out of thin air while testifying about the murder. It was the time "he almost killed" her. Choked her to unconsciousness. It literally made me go 'WHAT". If she'd ever said it before that, I didn't hear it. She said it happened in April.

It was like 'oh rats! I forgot to tell them about the worst time! Damn!!" So she just stuck it in.

Kind of like the marriage proposal she just remembered to mention.

The random things she just pulls out from nowhere are a real indication to me how fabricated they are. Her defense should be asking questions to lead to these events in her testimony. As much as I have talked smack about Nurmi, I am certain he is competent enough to get to the important issues that JA has spoken of previously. The choking incident is very significant, so I really could never believe he just hoped and prayed that JA would remember to bring it up, it is too crucial of a piece to the defense to rely on JA randomly inserting it. I don't think she ever told Nurmi about either of these things and that she literally just made them up either on the spot or earlier in the day/the night before.
Same with the proposal over the phone; she would have talked about that in one of her 48 Hours interview if it were true or if she had made it up ahead of time.

MOO. She just spews lies!

 

[Meemaw12]

The juror question about the exhibit was

exhibit 164, jury wanted to know the date and time of the picture exhibit

June 4, 2008 1:42:53 pm

 

[Ricki]

I can't understand why neither side is going to call a blood spatter expert.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=OyNVDJJl7tE

Juan is questioning a woman about the blood splatter in this video. I Did not catch her name.

 

[Mykeru]

In answer to a juror question, Jodi described how Bobby had choked her too, and she called police. Asked why there was no police report, she said that Bobby called them back and reported it as an errant call. No way the dispatcher would say, "All-righty then, y'all have a nice day" and officers wouldn't come check it out.

This is true. One time my ex-wife before she was my wife had a minor hissy-fit and curled up in a ball and began hyperventilating. I called 911. I didn't call back. During the call itself she got on the phone and told them she was fine (except the drama kind of backfired) and not to send anyone.

They dispatched anyway and I had two cops and a couple of EMTs drop by to run her vitals and determine that everything was indeed alright.

I may be wrong here, but I'm under the impression that once help is called for, especially if it has so much of a wiff of a domestic issue, someone is coming to your place regardless. As it should be.

Could you imagine the fallout should some woman be beaten, manages to call 911, after which her abuser beats her into calling back to cancel and they go right ahead and not bother to show up?

All it would have taken is for that to happen once for heads to roll and policy be changed.

P.S. What I learned in my 20s: Should your GF get involved in a tickle fight with her friends and fall head-first into an upright cast iron radiator and split her head and bleed all over the place and you, as a dutiful and scared s-less boyfriend drive her to the emergency room, be prepared to answer some questions. Lots and lots of questions. Even after they take her in the back of the ER before they even stitch her up and she tells them what happened and your total lack of involvement.

Again, as it should be.

 

[SunDawnn]

I figured TA got up while JA was sleeping. She just assumed he was asleep the whole time she was.

Here's how I think it all went down that day.

I think Jodi stalked Travis' house on June 4th while sitting in her unknown rental car down the block and with her new dark hair.

She waited for his one roommate (the other was at his girlfriends) to leave. She then entered with gun in hand and cordoned off the dog downstairs.

I think the naked photos were taken under duress/force because I don't see how Travis would've conceded to sex after his angry text messages to her the week before. The one photo of him giving the peace-sign looks insincere, unhappy and a bit fatigued.

There was quite a bit of time between the naked photos and the shower photos. I think Jodi was mentally/emotionally torturing him during this time. She might've had a can of gasoline with her and threaten to burn his house as extra leverage so he'd cooperate and not make any sudden moves.

I believe he was forced into the shower (still at gun point) and she began to further humiliate him. She held the gun in left hand while flicking photos with her right hand. Camera, strapped around neck and knife in back pocket perhaps.

I think when she ordered him to sit like a dog on the shower floor, she shot him (contrary to ME report). He wasn't fully incapacitated and lunged at her and the struggle ensued.

The rest is......history.


I do believe with every fiber of my being, she went to Travis' home to do him in and completely caught him off guard. She was not welcomed there.

I once thought she went there in hopes that he would reconsider and take her to Cancun w/him but, I no longer believe that.

I don't think she got there at 4AM and found Travis watching 'silly' YouTube videos in his office at that hour. That's typical Jodi-embellishment.
I think she made her way into the house around noon which is indicative of either Travis' last log in or phone call.

I don't believe Travis' last hours on Earth were pleasurable and for that reason alone, Jodi needs the DP!!

 

[LolaBaby3]

I'm re-posting this as the last thread closed.

I know it's early, but I hope all of Travis' siblings quote part of his text to her...where he called her evil...and she was the worse thing that happened to him, etc. during the sentencing part of this trial. She has fantasized what she thought their relationship was...when in reality she was his sex buddy...that's it. He was NEVER going to marry someone like her. A clinger, manipulator, liar and a follower. She needs to be reminded about he really felt.

I'm so sickened when I hear her make allegations against a man she brutally killed....not in self defense but in a rage and full of hate. She tries to blind the jurors with her sex-capades and toblerone stories when in reality...she stabbed a man 29x, slit his throat...dragged his body into shower, shot him and cleaned him off. I pray to God she didn't say anything to him while she did these things to him. How can someone hate someone else so much that not only do they kill him, but deny the family the truth because of her "fog". Ughhhhhhh.

She has hurt so many people and she still thinks this is all about her. Boo hoo. She is a psychopath and should be given the quickest trip off this earth. I never was a DP believer, however this case merits that. Evil must be destroyed. I just wish it could be done and completed sooner. :banghead:

This murder has really shaken me to my core. So many people hurt...so many lives changed and a young man killed, after going through such a hard upbringing, in his prime.


My heart goes out to his family. We live in Canada and I watch the trial online. It doesn't matter how far we are....I pray this family can heal knowing they have many people that care.

 

[Vresia]

Well, that would explain why I thought I missed that testimony -- if she just threw in this extra "incident" to bolster her supposed fear for her life. Kind of like the marriage proposal and also like the sudden recollection of him grabbing her as she ran down the hall after he was banging his head on the door.

Did anyone else happen to catch the choking testimony before she started narrating the murder events?

I had the same reaction KSCornFed had; the reference to the choking seemed to come out of nowhere and was incomplete. I have looked for the first time that she mentioned it and have not been able to find it.

 

[Keebler]

Hmmmm. I didn't see that, katiedid2 -- Interesting. I could be sizing her mom up totally wrong, but I think she must have wanted to use the word, "bought" to emphasize that the gun was not stolen.

And I wonder every time I see a shot of her mom & aunt in that courtroom, what they are thinking.... Do they believe anything their daughter/niece says is true? Or do they just know her & know she is lying and is a cold-blooded killer?

Have you seen Dr. Lillian Glass' blog when she interprets JA's mother's body language? http://drlillianglassbodylanguageblog.wordpress.com/

 

[neesaki]

May 26, 2008

Wow, that was fast. Thanks minor! :seeya:

 

[Boytwnmom]

and has watched any of JM's cross of defense witnesses I bet he may now be reconsidering but I sense he may have already had the sense drummed into him at some point-sounds like JM knows something about what he said in January that won't comport with JA's stories.

Remember that she brought her magazine decoder ring (Matt McCartney) into this fracas.

He was, at some point, allegedly ready and willing to testi-lie regarding the finger-shaped bruises on her neck which she claims to have cosmetically concealed.

JM would enjoy asking him a few questions, should Mr. Nurmi call upon his services.

 

[EGirl]

The random things she just pulls out from nowhere are a real indication to me how fabricated they are. Her defense should be asking questions to lead to these events in her testimony. As much as I have talked smack about Nurmi, I am certain he is competent enough to get to the important issues that JA has spoken of previously. The choking incident is very significant, so I really could never believe he just hoped and prayed that JA would remember to bring it up, it is too crucial of a piece to the defense to rely on JA randomly inserting it. I don't think she ever told Nurmi about either of these things and that she literally just made them up either on the spot or earlier in the day/the night before.
Same with the proposal over the phone; she would have talked about that in one of her 48 Hours interview if it were true or if she had made it up ahead of time.

MOO. She just spews lies!

I don't know that I've EVER seen a defense attorney ask so many leading questions. How much more could he possibly lead her?