Interim discussion regarding questions from the jury and Arias on the stand #82

[panthera]

Hello Harmony,
I know this has been asked before but I dont think I understood the answer.

Is there some reason why a different thread gets created ? Does the system this forum runs on have trouble after too many posts or something? We have seen it work past 100 posts on some threads so just wondering why after only 50-60 on the last thread that we had to build another one?

Just wondering if there is some reason for this.

I know having one each day for the trial made it kind of nice to keep track of the trial days.

I am not Harmony2, however the last thread had over 1,500 posts on it and yes, it does slow things down when the threads are too long.

 

[katiedid2]

I think the jury will be or maybe already are! Angered and disgusted! At her pedophilia accusation against a dead man that can't defend himself.
She has no proof of pedophilia nor DV only her word. No medical proof! No dr when she claims she hurt her finger and head when he body slammed her, she's a skinny woman! If he had done that on tile! She would be in unbearable back pain in a few days. I slipped and fell once on wet tile floor! Three days later the pain was unbearable! I couldn't even move.
She talks before thinking.

 

[ExigentPlan]

Not that it makes much of a difference, but after a poster commented about it earlier and spending more time studying the photo, I have changed my opinion of the sitting photo (chest down) in the shower. Now I feel certain that his legs weren't crossed. The curve is the calf pushing against the thigh. I apologize if my earlier opinion has mislead anyone. I couldn't find the message again, but thanks to the person who challenged this opinion and made me look closer.

 

[SwampMama]

I have always wondered about the difference between psychopath and sociopath and this article has good information that isn't jumbled up in hard to understand terms.

http://depressiond.com/sociopath-vs...ychopathic-sociopathic-personality-disorders/

". Certain studies confirm that those high in psychopathy don’t find cooperation pleasant, when individuals high on sociopathy traits cooperate if it’s in their interest."

Psychopaths can be from every segment of society, they are forged by natural selection and devoid of social emotions, which serves as a mechanism for psychopaths to act without feeling any guilt or remorse. They don’t have capacity to feel attachment, empathy or shame. The psychopath is very aware that he or she is doing something wrong, but doesn’t care.
Sociopaths, however, can feel emotional attachment to other individuals. The sociopath will still lack empathy & attachment for society and won’t feel guilt harming a stranger or breaking the law in any form, but won’t lack empathy for those to whom he feels attached.

Another distinguishing element between psychopathy and sociopathy is the presentation. He/she will con and manipulate with charm and intimidation, has the ability to present himself/herself as normal to society. The psychopath is organized in his/her thoughts and behavior, he/she maintains good physical and emotional control while committing a crime, displaying little to no emotional even under situations of an overt pressure or that are threatening to his/her existence. On the other hand, the sociopath is less organized, he/she might be quick to display rage, nervousness, agitation. A sociopath is likely to spontaneously act out in inappropriate manner, snap out in rage, without thinking about the consequences."

 

[katiedid2]

Floridas laws of discovery were awesome but better yet is the jury asking the killer questions. I hope they ask why she says passing. Away, she murdered him in cold blood.

 

[Kaddy Wonders]

Thanks, LizardQueen74, for filling that in preceding the texts.

Great minds think alike! The long post is from my entire post verbatim (including/starting with my words in parentheses questioning the date of April '08) - I transcribed these from screenshots.

My guess is others have transcribed parts of these texts too - but this happens to be the one I did. It caused quite a stir at first - all I did was transcribe these from screenshots in the media/timeline thread - they aren't hidden away, I just put them together here - and thankfully you provided more context!

Was yours from a screenshot as well?

-
I appreciate your transcribing those, Paperwing. Why didn't they come in during the prosecution's case, in a big way. They seem crucial to me. Maybe I missed them. hmm.

 

[Colt46]

"While psychiatrists often classify psychopaths and sociopaths together; criminologists differentiate them according to outward behavior."

http://www.differencebetween.net/science/difference-between-a-psychopath-and-a-sociopath/

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Watching nancy grace
She hesitates and makes things up as she goes! Her atty leads her! And she improvises.
They are playing the video of her atty questioning her about more an al sex! After her baptism.

It's clear to me she didn't rehearse those answers quite as well as she should have. Nurmi has to give her several nudges. lol

 

[panthera]

I think the jury will be or maybe already are! Angered and disgusted! At her pedophilia accusation against a dead man that can't defend himself.
She has no proof of pedophilia nor DV only her word. No medical proof! No dr when she claims she hurt her finger and head when he body slammed her, she's a skinny woman! If he had done that on tile! She would be in unbearable back pain in a few days. I slipped and fell once on wet tile floor! Three days later the pain was unbearable! I couldn't even move.
She talks before thinking.

It is quite obvious these events did not occur as she is relating them. Yes that tile floor is hard, she would have some bruising, soreness and if she hit her head could possibly have a concussion. Yet she is able to get up, stab him 29 times, slash his throat, drag him back to the shower and shoot him. Then she cleans up, puts a load int the washer, and drives to Utah that night.

If this isn't premeditated murder I don't know what is.

MOO

 

[Hatfield]

Yes, was looking at pics in from the "Tabularasa6's Library" and it was of Jodi and this loooong text. I recognized the bulk of it as having been what I've seen floating around...but for some reason I had never seen those first few sentences (I don't think).

I know I had never seen Michelle K or Elena mentioned before. I put the (?) in there as it wasn't quite discernible. So, to be clear, the (?) was put in there by me and not TA.

Anyone know or heard mention of Michelle K or Elena? Not sure I've heard their names or how they fit into the puzzle.

I suspect Jodi just totally lied to Travis that she knew some other person that told her some dirt on him.

IMO, I think Jodi accused Travis of the false pedophile accusations and was threatening to tell other people. I think she has done this before and used this lie as a weapon to get guys to do what she wanted. She knows the accusations are false but she also knows a lot of damage can be done even with false accusations.

 

[SunnyinMO]

Not that it makes much of a difference, but after a poster commented about it earlier and spending more time studying the photo, I have changed my opinion of the sitting photo (chest down) in the shower. Now I feel certain that his legs weren't crossed. The curve is the calf pushing against the thigh. I apologize if my earlier opinion has mislead anyone. I couldn't find the message again, but thanks to the person who challenged this opinion and made me look closer.

I hope someone will post that photo and point out how the legs are not crossed I have looked and looked ad they still look crossed to me...I couldn't see her leg in that one photo until someone kindly pointed it out....

 

[LizardQueen74]

Thanks - again! I haven't heard them mentioned either... It's really frustrating - I guess I got spoiled by FL's sunshine laws in that we had everything to pick through.

I don't understand why all of the texts are from Travis' phone only (guess JA 'lost' hers - but it was found in 2010), his computer only (the contents of hers being 'sealed' - what's up with that?)

It makes it a lot harder to piece things together... Glad you found that.

I'm originally from FL, so I know what you're talking about. It is very frustrating when different states lock down docs like that.

I had asked a few threads ago (not sure if I got an answer...I tried to keep checking, but missed a few pages I'm sure).

WHY do we have these text messages (both sides)...yet we don't have Travis' FB message to her as evidence? I know they have it, but I believe someone said it couldn't be introduced b/c it would be considered hearsay. Any lawyer in the house that can clarify why some things from him are admitted, but others not?

Also, anyone know WHY (oh WHY!) the findings on her computer are sealed? Does that mean it's not in evidence or just that we can't see it?

I can't stand that all the facts are not before the jury! ullhair:

 

[panthera]

Floridas laws of discovery were awesome but better yet is the jury asking the killer questions. I hope they ask why she says passing. Away, she murdered him in cold blood.

Agree, the Jury questions are awesome! There should be no unanswered questions in their minds when they begin deliberations as each of them have an opportunity to ask.

 

[paperwing]

I think the jury will be or maybe already are! Angered and disgusted! At her pedophilia accusation against a dead man that can't defend himself.
She has no proof of pedophilia nor DV only her word. No medical proof! No dr when she claims she hurt her finger and head when he body slammed her, she's a skinny woman! If he had done that on tile! She would be in unbearable back pain in a few days. I slipped and fell once on wet tile floor! Three days later the pain was unbearable! I couldn't even move.
She talks before thinking.

Even if JA did have proof of pedophilia or even prior DV - neither of these things makes it okay to murder someone, however 'bad' that person may be (or in this case, how many lies are being offered to make him look like a bad person)...

I don't see how BWS is even remotely considered in this case. Except for the 6-8 months when JA lived in Mesa, these two were 100s of miles apart from each other. Sure, psychological abuse can happen long distance (believe me, I know), but there is no proof that this was happening, and BWS is a very serious issue - which does not apply here, imv.

She really is a disturbing entity.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Same here...

WHY - for goodness sake, did JA say she wasn't sure if she HAD to act in self-defense? It was only a few minutes ago, but I forgot her exact words, but this is what she said.

If she felt that way, it sort of knocks her defense off a cliff, doesn't it? I wish I knew what day this testimony was from - I'd go review the video...

If she questions her justification, the jury sure ought to.

She has a light blue blouse on - it's the last day nurmi has her on the stand, so her 8th or 9th day up?

 

[Hatfield]

I am not Harmony2, however the last thread had over 1,500 posts on it and yes, it does slow things down when the threads are too long.

Maye I am viewing it wrong but I see 61 pages on "Thread 81". We are on Thread 82 now.

Sorry....Meant PAGES........61 pages.

 

[BritsKate]

BritsKate, would you say most people diagnosed with personality disorders are candidates for the diagnosis do psychopathy, or just those with ASPD?

Just bear in mind I don't have a degree in mental health. Everything I know comes post-abuse when I went on a several year rampage to educate myself, define what had happened and learned through my own therapy.

Disclaimer sorted...I think the overwhelming majority of psychopaths have personality disorders but most personality disordered are NOT psychopathic. Hare himself has stated most people who have ASPD aren't psychopathic too. I don't personally see ASPD with Jodi either. There are very strict criteria currently involved with antisocial personality disorder that a lot of psychopaths could be missing entirely from the equation. Because of this I really do think it could, and should, be a separate personality disorder all on its own.

Here's the proposed diagnostic criteria for the DSM-V if you're interested:
Proposed Changes for DSM
and,
New Criteria for Personality Disorders

 

[LizardQueen74]

I suspect Jodi just totally lied to Travis that she knew some other person that told her some dirt on him.

IMO, I think Jodi accused Travis of the false pedophile accusations and was threatening to tell other people. I think she has done this before and used this lie as a weapon to get guys to do what she wanted. She knows the accusations are false but she also knows a lot of damage can be done even with false accusations.

I completely agree about making up the person as a "source" of info when the real source was HER hacking into his account or doing some other spying. I don't doubt that she confronted him about something she found out from hacking/snooping/following and that would be the ONLY way she knew.... He was totally on to her and, similar to CA, she made up imaginary people to fit into her story.

I also don't doubt that the reason he said 15min was b/c if he let her take her sweet time she'd create some fake email/profile...etc to create this fictitious character.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

I'm repeating since I think I got lost in the move from the last thread...

Does anyone have a link to a whole-house floor plan? I am reading Det Flores report, and he indicates that at least one if not both of the roommates had rooms upstairs by Travis? (Google is only giving me the master floor plan...)

Hi. I'm not ignoring you - I just don't think I've seen one, Maybe check the HLN site?

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Listening to her testimony on HLN. Every time she says, "He just kept coming at me", I think she is reliving the stabbing, and Travis trying to defend himself.