Interpreting the "evidence"

[sissi]

While we're awaiting the report on the possibility of a ten year old writing the note, and/or the grade level of the author, can we discuss the note a bit and the kind of person we could expect to have written it? I have a sociopathic son-in-law, sadly this is true, and is the reason I have a house full of little guys. He married my daughter because he wanted to own a beautiful wife. He can not love, or care about anyone , his world is all about him. One of his quirks, other than literally taking candy from a baby, is his penchant for violent films. He will forget a child's birthday party to watch a good murder for the fifth time. I had the opportunity, once, and believe me it was frightening , to view him while he was watching. This guy PARTICIPATES!!
He jumps out of the chair, get's closer to the tv, says the lines, holds his hands to fit the weapon being used, and BECOMES the character of the killer!
He can quote lines from EVERY killer movie he has seen!
There is so much I could say about him, I just (for the record) deleted a few paragraphs, simply because I don't want to bore anyone with details.
Will he kill someone some day? I don't have a clue, but I know this, if he chooses to kill someone, he will clearly believe it was their fault. They will have , in his opinion ,deserved to die.The movies used in the ransom note were not from this little era, however, I have NO DOUBT that our own little psychopath could create a murderous note is seconds, quoting lines from all current horror films. I can picture him doing this, thoughts flying ,certain he is the smartest guy alive, "kinda' like a savant of horror", pleased with himself to the point of some type of orgasm, not sexual, sex isn't on the agenda.
Could he be the type of person that killed Jonbenet? Could the perp be like him, acting out his own little fantasy , his own little script, all on his stage and no reason to reproduce it again. ? Maybe next week he will be the best gambler on pokerstars.com that ever lived, just can "move" on to the next starring role?

edit..oops..missed the answer while typing and deleting

 

[sissi]

Your good-natured acceptance of my unsolicited critique is ever so endearing.
As for the RN, I am so glad you axed, as I didn't want to seem too anal in raising the issue. Earlier reviewers have pointed out the lapses such as missing commas & faulty capitalization, the failure to close up "outsmart," & misuse of "bring"--& the tortured prose itself, of course. However, the fact that there were relatively few errors is indicative of much, given the amount of copy. That is, the mistakes that WEREN'T made suggest that the writer was well educated & experienced--such as, oh, say, a JOURNALIST (or whatever PR was).
Having been copyediting & proofreading professionally for many moons, I would EXPECT the average writer to err in citing a series of dollar amounts--e.g., to write "$100 dollars" instead of "$100"; the writer of this note was excruciatingly correct in all the monetary references, except for inconsistency in adding the decimal & zeros. Similarly, people will typically write "10 a.m. in the morning" instead of "10 a.m."--not our gal. Also as has been highlighted by others, the parallel structure in the "she dies" series is a reasonably sophisticated construction. In short, somethin' tells moi this scribe wornt no grade school kid, nor no stinkin' housekeeper, nor no one who just committed or came upon a brutal act. It reeks of a painstaking transcription from a previous draft, & the edits suggest that another, clean draft was intended.
And that brings me to the question that I axed myself from the start, professional editor wise: Who the hell edits a RANSOM NOTE?
Who dyes a little girl's hair? . . .

nor no one who just committed or came upon a brutal act.

Wow, you are suggesting the hairdresser killed Jonbenet!

 

[sissi]

Being a SA isn't really my thing, however to see that someone really suspects Patsy of premeditated murder raises my fur. Sorry! I wonder if the hobbits were part feline?

 

[BlueCrab]

And that brings me to the question that I axed myself from the start, professional editor wise: Who the hell edits a RANSOM NOTE?

Skybluepink,

Professional writers edit the hell out of themselves. Patsy Ramsey had a journalism degree -- but Chris Wolf was a professional writer.

 

[sissi]

Skybluepink,

Professional writers edit the hell out of themselves. Patsy Ramsey had a journalism degree -- but Chris Wolf was a professional writer.

hmm..you are right,BC!
It's interesting in how people can pick out something important that may very well be a "find", just ascribe it to the wrong person. How many journalists did we have as suspects.. Santa the professor, anyone including Wolfe that attended his classes and would include Mike Mcelroy,as well.

 

[skybluepink]

Yes, but do professional writers edit the hell out of themselves when writing RANSOM NOTES? Maybe one of us should poll professional writers--or just kidnappers in general--on their overall ransom-note-writing procedure. Sample questions: "What's the ideal number of sentences when you write a ransom note?" We give them a range of 1 to 28. "What's the ideal number of paragraphs?" We give them a range of 1 to 3. "What's the best format?" They can choose between informal message and formal letter. Yeah, now we're getting somewhere.

 

[sissi]

Yes, but do professional writers edit the hell out of themselves when writing RANSOM NOTES? Maybe one of us should poll professional writers--or just kidnappers in general--on their overall ransom-note-writing procedure. Sample questions: "What's the ideal number of sentences when you write a ransom note?" We give them a range of 1 to 28. "What's the ideal number of paragraphs?" We give them a range of 1 to 3. "What's the best format?" They can choose between informal message and formal letter. Yeah, now we're getting somewhere.

You may be on to something important here, heck if I know, but certainly you are far more qualified to "see it" than I. For many reasons the Ramseys aren't on my list of suspects, so of course, I will perk an ear for something that makes sense, but will look beyond them to see if the "shoe fits" someone else. Blue Crab , by suggesting Wolfe, along with your view,opened a line of thinking. Perhaps our guy is just obsessively correct, a journalism student,a graduate with degree in journalism , or a journalism professor.
edit..would mrs. mcsanta qualify as a professional?

 

[sissi]

On the topic of professors, here's a peak at another forum..
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cach...posts+patsy+ramsey+cancer+2005&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

 

[RedChief]

Yes, but do professional writers edit the hell out of themselves when writing RANSOM NOTES? Maybe one of us should poll professional writers--or just kidnappers in general--on their overall ransom-note-writing procedure. Sample questions: "What's the ideal number of sentences when you write a ransom note?" We give them a range of 1 to 28. "What's the ideal number of paragraphs?" We give them a range of 1 to 3. "What's the best format?" They can choose between informal message and formal letter. Yeah, now we're getting somewhere.

Professional writers don't write ransom notes; there's no profit in it....unless you can collect $118,000.00 dollars by 9 to 10 am in the morning.

Let's assume that your inference is correct; that a final draft was in the assignment. What do you propose brought the process to a halt?

Here are two brilliant hypotheses: (1.) The writer ran out of time that morning, and deemed it prudent to truncate the project. She heard John moving about upstairs. "Sorry, honey, I'm running late." (2.) The writer ran out of time that PM, and deemed it expedient to call it a wrap. "Darn, did I hear the garage door open?" Neither of these gets us any closer to the prize, and the question still remains--who would edit such a note?

Ya gotta admit, folks, the editing exhibited in the note, along with the appearance that one or more rough drafts had preceded it, along with the liklihood that a polished final draft was anticipated, is speaking volumes; but, in what language?

The writer is a perfectionist? The note is impromptu? The writer is a professional journalist? The writer is a journalism major with a penchant for verbosity? The writer is a literarily gifted psychopath bent on the ignominous destruction of John and/or Patsy Ramsey? None of the aforementioned?

At the very least can't we surmise that by completing an error-free final draft, the writer might have hoped to give the impression that the note had entered through the basement window in the pocket of the "intruder"? Or, to put it more succintly, he/she didnt want "us" to know that it had been penned on the premises. Add, if that were so, it were tantalizing clue.

Take your seat! Next.....

 

[mihaff]

The reason the writer asked for 118k from the "bank", was that the writer knew the 118k was in the bank and he,she or it needed john to leave the house so he she or it could finish dumping the body he she or it had previously staged to look like a kidnapping. But John did not react like he she or it thought he would.

 

[RedChief]

The reason the writer asked for 118k from the "bank", was that the writer knew the 118k was in the bank and he,she or it needed john to leave the house so he she or it could finish dumping the body he she or it had previously staged to look like a kidnapping. But John did not react like he she or it thought he would.

Yes, good thinking. You could surmise that the note was designed to get John the hell outta the house so's he/she/it can do something with the body--get it the hell outta the house too while John is gone to the bank. Precisely.

And since the foreign faction is watching the entire family to ensure that they don't alert anyone, if he/she/it is seen leaving the house and traveling to, say, the Whites' to deposit the boy (what will he/she/it do with the boy?), well, what the heck, when the girl is found she'll be dead just as the note warned. Perfect!

So, is there any parallel between this note asking for $118,000 from a deferred compensation account and those folks in Ruthless People advising the husband of their captor that he could withdraw the money from his IRA?

Which bank, if any, in the area, within easy driving distance of 755 15th street, was the proud depository of the $118,000? Or, had that money been deposited in an Atlanta account? Or, does it matter?

 

[mihaff]

Yes, good thinking. You could surmise that the note was designed to get John the hell outta the house so's he/she/it can do something with the body--get it the hell outta the house too while John is gone to the bank. Precisely.

And since the foreign faction is watching the entire family to ensure that they don't alert anyone, if he/she/it is seen leaving the house and traveling to, say, the Whites' to deposit the boy (what will he/she/it do with the boy?), well, what the heck, when the girl is found she'll be dead just as the note warned. Perfect!

So, is there any parallel between this note asking for $118,000 from a deferred compensation account and those folks in Ruthless People advising the husband of their captor that he could withdraw the money from his IRA?

Which bank, if any, in the area, within easy driving distance of 755 15th street, was the proud depository of the $118,000? Or, had that money been deposited in an Atlanta account? Or, does it matter?

I don't remember which bank held the money, but it would be more likely the money would eventually end up in a less liquid investment. I don't think anyone but John and Patsy would know it was still in a bank. I think if patsy wrote the note, she may have been drunk and certainly under stress and wrote the note that way. If she wrote the note, her goal was not to get ransom, it was to divert attention perhaps or maybe something more immediate, clear her way to get the body out of the house. If John was involved at that point, the body would have been dumped and then the police called. In my opinion only. Patsy IMO would have made too much noise and struggled too much to get the body to her car and still keep it from John. A man could do it easily. An intruder would not have started his sick obsession in the house, no need too. No this was some type of accident or unintended death, in my humble opinion, by someone in the house. I don't totally understand it nor know why John eventually went along, but it was not intruder. Of course this could all be fiction.

 

[RedChief]

I don't remember which bank held the money, but it would be more likely the money would eventually end up in a less liquid investment. I don't think anyone but John and Patsy would know it was still in a bank. I think if patsy wrote the note, she may have been drunk and certainly under stress and wrote the note that way. If she wrote the note, her goal was not to get ransom, it was to divert attention perhaps or maybe something more immediate, clear her way to get the body out of the house. If John was involved at that point, the body would have been dumped and then the police called. In my opinion only. Patsy IMO would have made too much noise and struggled too much to get the body to her car and still keep it from John. A man could do it easily. An intruder would not have started his sick obsession in the house, no need too. No this was some type of accident or unintended death, in my humble opinion, by someone in the house. I don't totally understand it nor know why John eventually went along, but it was not intruder. Of course this could all be fiction.

Well, the note basically said, John, dammit, go to the BANK and get the $118,000 which is in an account there, and come home and put the money in a paper bag and stand by for a call instructing you how, where and when to deliver the loot and pick up the merchandise.

So which local bank is the account with, that has the $118,000? Remember, John didn't go to the local bank as instructed and didn't send anyone to any local bank until he'd called his "banker friend", Rod Westmoreland, with Merrill Lynch in Atlanta, who arranged for a cash advance on his credit card. And John Fernie arranged to get the cash with John's card from a local bank (the Lafayette branch), presided over by a friend of Fernie. This isn't the BANK that had the account that had the $118,000...that swallowed a fly.....There was no such account in a local bank.

So, someone (the note writer) was mistaken about where the $118,000 was and what John would have to do to arrange for the cash. This note writer knew about the $118,000 but didn't realize it wasn't sitting in an account at a local BANK. What do you make of that?

This note writer assumed, incorrectly, that the loot was in an account in a local bank. Do you think Patsy would have made that incorrect assumption?

An intruder who found one of John's check stubs might have, eh?

 

[mihaff]

Well, the note basically said, John, dammit, go to the BANK and get the $118,000 which is in an account there, and come home and put the money in a paper bag and stand by for a call instructing you how, where and when to deliver the loot and pick up the merchandise.

So which local bank is the account with, that has the $118,000? Remember, John didn't go to the local bank as instructed and didn't send anyone to any local bank until he'd called his "banker friend", Rod Westmoreland, with Merrill Lynch in Atlanta, who arranged for a cash advance on his credit card. And John Fernie arranged to get the cash with John's card from a local bank (the Lafayette branch), presided over by a friend of Fernie. This isn't the BANK that had the account that had the $118,000...that swallowed a fly.....There was no such account in a local bank.

So, someone (the note writer) was mistaken about where the $118,000 was and what John would have to do to arrange for the cash. This note writer knew about the $118,000 but didn't realize it wasn't sitting in an account at a local BANK. What do you make of that?

This note writer assumed, incorrectly, that the loot was in an account in a local bank. Do you think Patsy would have made that incorrect assumption?

An intruder who found one of John's check stubs might have, eh?

Yes I do believe Patsy, IMO, if she did it, could have made that mistake. If she did it, she was not rational at the time she wrote the note. Of all the things I am uncertain about in this case, my strongest opinion is that Patsy wrote the note. I can't escape that belief. Foreign factions, fat cat, sbtc are all the imagination of the writer and I believe it to be Patsy.

 

[RedChief]

If all the pages that followed the four pages that contained the doodles, etc., had occurred farther along in the tablet, would you consider that significant? Let's say that instead of pages being missing immediately following the doodle pages, there were several blank pages immediately following the doodle pages, after which there were nine missing pages, followed by one "practice" page, followed by the three missing pages that the RN had been written on, followed by the remainder of the blank pages in the tablet. I assume this would be possible, but I don't know how many pages are contained in a new tablet.

That there were pages missing immediately following the doodle pages, and the "practice" page immediately following those missing pages, and three more missing pages following the practice page, might be interpreted as evidencing that the note writer was the tablet owner. Then again, it might not.

The phony note could have been written just as easily by an unknown as by a Ramsey. The pad was in plain view and the pen was easy to find in its holder underneath the phone in the kitchen nook. Is there any significance to the fact that the note wasn't written on a pad used by John and taken from his study, for example? Is the kitchen the wife's domain or the husband's?

Someone once suggested to me that the note was written during the murder by an accomplice. Isn't that a new wrinkle.

If you call right away, you don't need a ransom note. If you don't leave a note and you don't call right away, you've got coppers crawling all over the place. Most of the admonitions in the note (the vast majority) were aimed at preventing LE involvement. Just you and we, John; just you and we. So, I still think it's possible that the note was written with the intention of collecting a ransom. The youngsters who undertook the kidnapping, blew it, as youngsters often do.

However, it's possible that the note was 100% bogus, but still written by someone unknown to and uninvited by the Ramseys, as a way of hinting at the identity of a killer who had covered his tracks EXTREMELY well. Someone who was certain that the crime would never be pinned on him.

Can you really get even with someone if you hit him wearing a mask?

 

[Voice of Reason]

your post inspired a new thought. you said, if they called early enough, they didn't need the note. ok. let's go with that, assuming we're dealing with an intruder. the intruder took great care to cover his/her tracks. why leave a potentially crucial piece of evidence in a 3-page ransom note behind? because you know that the ramseys are leaving town so early in the morning, that no phone call will precede their discovery of a missing daughter. and even if you made the call early enough, the very fact that you anticipate their early departure will also suggest your closeness to the ramsey family.

of course, all of this is defeated if a ramsey is the perp. but either way, it's hard to support a theory for an intruder completely unknown to the ramseys...

 

[thepostess]

I am so glad you axed

I find it hard to beleive that a copy editor would use the word axed in place of asked. I kind of draws away from the credibility of your statement, of being an editor for many moons.

It is possible that the note was written by someone who has journalistic knowledge, including Patsy. But as previously pointed out, other journalists and writers were on the list of suspects.

 

[RedChief]

your post inspired a new thought. you said, if they called early enough, they didn't need the note. ok. let's go with that, assuming we're dealing with an intruder. the intruder took great care to cover his/her tracks. why leave a potentially crucial piece of evidence in a 3-page ransom note behind? because you know that the ramseys are leaving town so early in the morning, that no phone call will precede their discovery of a missing daughter. and even if you made the call early enough, the very fact that you anticipate their early departure will also suggest your closeness to the ramsey family.

of course, all of this is defeated if a ramsey is the perp. but either way, it's hard to support a theory for an intruder completely unknown to the ramseys...

Boy, Reason, there are quite a few ways to interpret your post. Let's see if I've go it right: we're discussing why any note (lengthy or otherwise) was left, right? left/right/left/right....nested within that discussion is another one which puzzles over the length of the note; we'll leave that aside for the moment. I said if the intruders' intention was to keep the authorities, etc., out of it, and keep it a secret between the Ramseys and the foreign faction, they had two options--they could leave a note for the Ramseys to read when they got up, or they could call. Calling would be preferable because, as you pointed out, a note would constitute evidence that could potentially be traced to them. If the intruders didn't give a hoot about police involvement, they'd probably not leave a note regardless of the Ramseys' planned early departure and regardless of the intruders' knowledge of it; throw caution to the wind; the Ramseys will eventually arise from their downy nests and discover that their child is missing.

"...no phone call will precede their discovery of a missing daughter." Well, this is a toughy. But, I tend to agree with you. The intruders could call shortly after leaving the premises and well before the Ramseys awaken. The Ramseys would be awakened by the call. How do we (kidnappers) know they don't shut their ringers off when they go to bed? Not likely, but how do we know? How do we know the phone system will be operable? Lots of things we think we can depend on but not necessarily. But, there is this to consider: the girl is dead and her body is in the basement. Does that have any bearing?

Yes, if you made an early call, let's say an hour or so prior to their scheduled awakening, the suggestion might be that you're someone close to the family, or someone somehow privy to their travel plans. So, who all was privy to their travel plans? Did they talk about their travel plans while they were being wined and dined by the Whites? Betcha LHP knew about their travel plans. Bectcha the Barnhills knew about their travel plans.

"...potentially crucial piece of evidence.." Yes, it would be and it is, but no one has figured out who wrote it..yet. You could argue that a short note would have been more convincing than that long one; e.g., "We have your kid. Don't contact the police. We'll be in touch." That would sure as hell do it for me! So, the length of the note (all the stuff in it which makes it lengthy) and the fact of the note (that it exists), when a call might have sufficed, taken together with the travel plans, etc., (the whole context of the crime) ought to tell us something about who wrote it.

One more thing: that Patsy Ramsey tells us the note was left on the spiral stairs is not relevant unless you believe Patsy. We don't actually know that it was left anywhere; just that it was laying on the floor when the officer arrived. That she says it was left on stairs that she frequents, IS relevant.

 

[skybluepink]

Re: "axed"--I make a little joke, but it was obviously too obscure. Just draw a picture of me saying I apologise. (Though I'm pretty sure people who do pronounce it "axed" don't actually spell it that way.)
More to the point--yes, one wonders how the writer knew the Ramseys would even be up before 8 a.m. You call me at that hour the day after Christmas, you're gonna get voice mail. By the way, in one of the exemplars of P's handwriting, she wrote "7 am"--the same style the writer of the RN used for time of day: i.e., lowercase letters w/no periods, & hour expressed as figure. Other common styles a writer COULD have used include adding periods to "am"; using uppercase letters, w/ or w/o periods; adding ":00"; spelling out the number, & writing "o'clock".
Also, does it not seem more likely that the note was written while JB was still alive rather than after she was dead? I infer from the length, sarcasm, toying w/John, etc., that it was composed at leisure and was intended to be used as part of a fake kidnapping. When the kidnapping turned to homicide, the note still came in handy.
Given that ALL scenarios proposed to try to match the evidence are illogical, I infer that only 1 person devised the note ruse. If another person were brought in to help cover up by writing a fake RN, the cooler mind would presumably have prevailed--e.g., insist on a 1-page note rather than 3 pages; insist on a larger, round figure rather than $118,000; point out that if you're going to behead her, they may not especially WANT the body for proper burial; better yet, since it was an accident, don't try to cover up--call a lawyer immediately.
Just to conclude here--It hurts my heart to think this, but I can't avoid the fact that the killing had to be deliberate. At some point during the fake kidnapping, JB recognized P & was killed in a panic so that she wouldn't tell. The fake kidnapping plan was the product of a desperate and unstable woman, as was the homicide.

 

[mihaff]

...More to the point--yes, one wonders how the writer knew the Ramseys would even be up before 8 a.m. You call me at that hour the day after Christmas, you're gonna get voice mail. By the way, in one of the exemplars of P's handwriting, she wrote "7 am"--the same style the writer of the RN used for time of day: i.e., lowercase letters w/no periods, & hour expressed as figure. Other common styles a writer COULD have used include adding periods to "am"; using uppercase letters, w/ or w/o periods; adding ":00"; spelling out the number, & writing "o'clock".
Also, does it not seem more likely that the note was written while JB was still alive rather than after she was dead? I infer from the length, sarcasm, toying w/John, etc., that it was composed at leisure and was intended to be used as part of a fake kidnapping. When the kidnapping turned to homicide, the note still came in handy.
Given that ALL scenarios proposed to try to match the evidence are illogical, I infer that only 1 person devised the note ruse. If another person were brought in to help cover up by writing a fake RN, the cooler mind would presumably have prevailed--e.g., insist on a 1-page note rather than 3 pages; insist on a larger, round figure rather than $118,000; point out that if you're going to behead her, they may not especially WANT the body for proper burial; better yet, since it was an accident, don't try to cover up--call a lawyer immediately.
Just to conclude here--It hurts my heart to think this, but I can't avoid the fact that the killing had to be deliberate. At some point during the fake kidnapping, JB recognized P & was killed in a panic so that she wouldn't tell. The fake kidnapping plan was the product of a desperate and unstable woman, as was the homicide.

I guess we both believe that Patsy may be the note writer. I am not convinced that the murder occurred like you said. How the murder happened is a mystery to me. I think the head injury occurred first. That may have been by a strike or perhaps even a high fall onto something. I am no ME so that is only a guess. What if Patsy cared for JB secretly after the head injury. Then when she could not longer detect vital signs, began to panic and started hatching the plan to stage the body and then dump it along some road. The garote was concocted from Patsy's imagination or her previous readings PERHAPS. If the garote was attached while the child was still somewhat alive but Patsy could not tell it, the ME may have concluded that is was contributory to the death. The problem was getting the body out of the house so John wouldn't see her. The note was created to solve that problem, it just didn't work. I also agree with you that if another person, such as John, had been involved he would have never gone along with such a ridiculous note with the personal references and the phony male bravado. Could it have been an accident? yes. Could Burke be involved? perhaps. What if Burke caused the fatal injury and doesn't even know that he did. The mother and then afterwards the father, faked everything to prevent not just the police but Burke himself from ever knowing he was responsible. Like I said in a related thread, the thing I am most certain of, in my opinion only, is that Patsy wrote that note to throw both the police and John off that morning. It just didn't work like she wanted. This is only my opinion, and all in the house could be innocent.