Intruder theories only. No posts from rdi members allowed

[ScarlettScarpetta]

"The Death of Innocence," Patsy talks about how she started smoking the spring or summer after JonBenet's death while in Michigan. I am looking for the exact page.

JMO

Thanks.. But that would be AFTER the murders and not at the BOULDER home..

 

[Venom]

"He also collected cigarette butts found outside Amy's house, and discovered that the same brands were found in the Ramseys' alley."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/jonbenet-dna-rules-out-parents/

Anybody know what brands? Were they a popular brand or an obscure brand?
If they were a brand that a lot of people smoke (say Marlboro) I wouldn't think to much of it. JMO

 

[Venom]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...gYHwCg&usg=AFQjCNHmcSvA48jzO_cjZUGbAGJIKd8CuQ

Here is a copy of the autopsy report that I found. I can't copy and paste from there, but the stomach contents are on the end of page 6 and continue on page 7. It states that the small intestine contains fragmented pieces of green to yellow green fruit or vegetable material which may represent pineapple.

 

[tezi]

Thanks.. But that would be AFTER the murders and not at the BOULDER home..

All you said was that you never heard of Patsy smoking and you would "love to have a source" for that. I provided a source. And I should have specified that Patsy was a former smoker and started smoking again after the murder. She could have been smoking due to all the stress while living in the Boulder home, we don't know.

JMO

ETA: And we know that Patsy did smoke cigars at her 40th birthday party. And John had cigars in the Boulder home. Again, Patsy could have smoked while living in the Boulder home.

 

[TroyinTX]

There is definitely a reason for them to lie about the pineapple because according to them, JB was ASLEEP when they got home. If she ate pineapple, obviously she was not asleep.

And by them stating she was asleep, they could insist they put her to bed and that was the last they saw of her that night. If she was awake that night when they arrived home, they may have felt that had more explaining to do in terms of what she was doing, etc. Much easier to just say, "oh...she was asleep when get home. End of story."

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

There is definitely a reason for them to lie about the pineapple because according to them, JB was ASLEEP when they got home. If she ate pineapple, obviously she was not asleep.

And by them stating she was asleep, they could insist they put her to bed and that was the last they saw of her that night. If she was awake that night when they arrived home, they may have felt that had more explaining to do in terms of what she was doing, etc. Much easier to just say, "oh...she was asleep when get home. End of story."

That would not work with the time line. If as most people believe she was gone by 1 am or there abouts and stomach emptying takes about 4 -5 hours.. then she would have had to eat well before then.

The pineapple if that is indeed what it was was already in her small intestine.. passed the duodenum. It had been more than just a few hours.

It does not matter in the scheme of things whether she ate it or not. It proves nothing. It is not a lie. I believe that they had no idea when she ate it., if she did.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

All you said was that you never heard of Patsy smoking and you would "love to have a source" for that. I provided a source. And I should have specified that Patsy was a former smoker and started smoking again after the murder. She could have been smoking due to all the stress while living in the Boulder home, we don't know.

JMO

ETA: And we know that Patsy did smoke cigars at her 40th birthday party. And John had cigars in the Boulder home. Again, Patsy could have smoked while living in the Boulder home.

Cigars are not the same as cigarettes. There is no proof she smoked cigarettes in the boulder home at this point.

I appreciate you finding the info about her starting smoking again after the murder.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...gYHwCg&usg=AFQjCNHmcSvA48jzO_cjZUGbAGJIKd8CuQ

Here is a copy of the autopsy report that I found. I can't copy and paste from there, but the stomach contents are on the end of page 6 and continue on page 7. It states that the small intestine contains fragmented pieces of green to yellow green fruit or vegetable material which may represent pineapple.

I have that one. And that is all it says. That it could have been pineapple. No more than that.

 

[TroyinTX]

Cigars are not the same as cigarettes. There is no proof she smoked cigarettes in the boulder home at this point.

I appreciate you finding the info about her starting smoking again after the murder.

IF she started smoking AGAIN (again being the keyword here) after the murder, than it could be a possibility that she smoked a few times while in the Boulder home.

I just wonder why you are so adamant about believing everything that the Ramsey's said.

 

[Mama2JML]

It just feels like so much was missed that could have indeed helped them. Have they ever tested the cigarettes found to see if that DNA matches any DNA found in the house?

Whitson learned of the cigarette butts in 2009; a year after the TDNA was analyzed. In his book, he poses a most rhetorical question, "What should be done?". One of his recommendations is to submit the rope & cigarette butts to a lab to for DNA testing. So, I gather this evidence wasn't analyzed...

 

[Mama2JML]

The pineapple is not a big mystery unless you believe the parents distancing themselves from it (as they distanced themselves from so many other things) and you ascribe to the IDI theory. Scarlett doesn't want to hear anything that goes against her IDI theory and she will resist admitting the evidence even exists, much less admit that it is significant in disproving IDI. I was trying to lead her down a path but I realize now it is impossible to make her see what she does not want to see: that the Ramsey's lied over and over and over again as they did everything they could to distance themselves from their daughter's death.

I acknowledged, earlier, the possibility that the Rs lied about the pineapple. It is also possible they lied about JonBenet's level of consciousness upon arriving @ home on the 25th. How would this have benefitted them?

 

[Mama2JML]

Re: Pineapple

Why would JonBenet have Tupperware in her room & what's with this line of questioning?...

PR Intvw '98:
"24 TOM HANEY: ...And the
25 next photo has no number on it, but that bag
0534
1 that we had been talking about earlier in
2 JonBenet's room there were some things in it and
3 if you can just take a peek at that photo and
4 the next one. And the second one has JB2 on it,
5 this one has JB and nothing else.
6 PATSY RAMSEY: That looks like a little
7 Tupperware container.
8 TOM HANEY: Okay.
9 PATSY RAMSEY: But I can't, I can't tell
10 what's in it, it's too fuzzy. I don't know you
11 all or something.
12 TOM HANEY: Okay. Do you recall the bag --
13 and we looked at it earlier from different
14 angles --
15 PATSY RAMSEY: A little gift bag or
16 something.
17 TOM HANEY: It appears to be.
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Some of it -- I don't
19 know. Could you give me a
20 hint or --
21 TOM HANEY: Well, not exactly. You know,
22 you have --
23 PATSY RAMSEY: What is it?
24 TOM HANEY: Well, and that we don't, we
25 don't really know, or I don't know.
0535
1 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, she had some little
2 bead things, little like plastic little beads
3 that you iron together that were, you know,
4 teeny little different colors, yellow, blue,
5 red, whatever, and that might be that
6 (inaudible).
7 TOM HANEY: Were they mixed together, or
8 were they separated according to colors?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Separate, I believe, I
10 believe, I can't remember. She got it from
11 Christmas I think, a little bead holder.
12 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you recall who, who she
13 got that from?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know, you know, it
15 was under the tree.
16 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. Was it from you or --
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Or a group scene, I don't
18 know.
19 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. Did you purchase it?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
21 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: The little bead, beaded
23 stuff, she used to make them with that little
24 Meagan (inaudible), they have the -- it's on one
25 of these pictures. So you put them on a little
0536
1 design board and then you --
2 TRIP DeMUTH: Uh-huh (yes).
3 PATSY RAMSEY: And then you put a wet paper
4 on it --
5 TRIP DeMUTH: Uh-huh (yes).
6 PATSY RAMSEY: -- and iron them together.
7 That could be what that is. I can't tell. I
8 can't tell. You could be right. I can't tell.
9 TOM HANEY: Okay. And again, I think it's
10 probably a little bigger than that, especially
11 if you look at the JB2 photo, but again it's
12 kind of hard to say because it's not really good
13 focus.
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
15 TOM HANEY: Let me show you, I want to make
16 sure you know which bag that we're talking
17 about. It's picture 55. I kind of lost my
18 place.
19 PATSY RAMSEY: It's a --
20 TOM HANEY: Yeah.
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
22 TOM HANEY: You see that?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
24 TOM HANEY: 55.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
0537
1 TOM HANEY: It's a little gift --
2 PATSY RAMSEY: Gift bag, right.
3 TOM HANEY: Okay. And you don't have any
4 specific recollection about that?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
6 TOM HANEY: The reason I'm asking you about
7 it is because you had said you had been packing
8 things for Charlevoix.
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
10 TOM HANEY: Is that one of the bags you had
11 been packing for Charlevoix?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't, I don't remember,
13 but I was thinking backpacking for Charlevoix,
14 like the Christmas presents for Melinda and John
15 Stuart.
16 TOM HANEY: So that's not?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Shopping bags for gifts for
18 them.
19 TOM HANEY: Okay.
20 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know, JonBenet may
21 have picked that up to take it with her, of
22 course, I just don't remember.
23 TOM HANEY: Had you packed any perishables
24 in that pack? We don't know what it is --
25 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't know, I don't
0538
1 know, I, I don't remember that bag and I can't
2 tell what's in that picture.
3 TOM HANEY: Okay.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: So.
5 TOM HANEY: Well, I just wanted to check --
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
7 TOM HANEY: -- and make sure that's not
8 part of what you were taking to Charlevoix.
9 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't recall that it was.
10 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. Something that
11 occurred to me is that you might have packed
12 snacks for --
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, right.
14 TRIP DeMUTH: And what I hear you saying is
15 that that's not what this is.
16 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't know, it doesn't
17 look like it. If I packed snacks, I would have
18 been downstairs in the kitchen somewhere --
19 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
20 PATSY RAMSEY: -- or, you know, but --
21 TRIP DeMUTH: Would perishable items be in
22 a Tupperware container up in JonBenet's room,
23 perishable food items?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Not likely.
25 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
0539
1 PATSY RAMSEY: That's what makes me think
2 it would be more likely to be the beads or
3 something.
4 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. So do you think that
5 that's pineapple in there?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. It could be.
7 TRIP DeMUTH: Would you think that that
8 would be likely, or unlikely up in her room?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: I think that would be very
10 unlikely.
11 TRIP DeMUTH: Very unlikely?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: To be pineapple.
13 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. You don't recall
14 putting pineapple in a Tupperware container and
15 putting it up in her room?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't.
17 TRIP DeMUTH: And you would be the person
18 to do that if it were done, right?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Most likely, yes."

 

[Venom]

Re: Pineapple

Why would JonBenet have Tupperware in her room & what's with this line of questioning?...

PR Intvw '98:
<SNIPPED BY ME DUE TO SPACE>
1 PATSY RAMSEY: That's what makes me think
2 it would be more likely to be the beads or
3 something.
4 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. So do you think that
5 that's pineapple in there?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. It could be.
7 TRIP DeMUTH: Would you think that that
8 would be likely, or unlikely up in her room?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: I think that would be very
10 unlikely.
11 TRIP DeMUTH: Very unlikely?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: To be pineapple.
13 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. You don't recall
14 putting pineapple in a Tupperware container and
15 putting it up in her room?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't.
17 TRIP DeMUTH: And you would be the person
18 to do that if it were done, right?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Most likely, yes."[/i]

I think they were trying to see if the tupperware in her room could have had pineapple in it or used to store beads (or other things) PR said it was probably used to store beads.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

IF she started smoking AGAIN (again being the keyword here) after the murder, than it could be a possibility that she smoked a few times while in the Boulder home.

I just wonder why you are so adamant about believing everything that the Ramsey's said.

I see nothing that points me to them lying about the things we are talking about. I am not saying they never lied.. I think everyone does sometimes. I look at the reasons behind it..

I don't think Patsy would just throw her cigarettes on the ground.. Even if she did smoke. But so far I don't see any proof she smoked until after the murder again.

 

[tezi]

Cigars are not the same as cigarettes. There is no proof she smoked cigarettes in the boulder home at this point.

I appreciate you finding the info about her starting smoking again after the murder.

BBM: Really? I didn't know there was a difference.

BBM (in red): And there is no proof she didn't either.

However, I will say there is more proof that the material in JB's intestine is pineapple than there is that Patsy smoked in the Boulder home. And I know that is comparing apples to oranges....

JMO

 

[tezi]

I think they were trying to see if the tupperware in her room could have had pineapple in it or used to store beads (or other things) PR said it was probably used to store beads.

Exactly....

JMO

 

[otg]

That would not work with the time line. If as most people believe she was gone by 1 am or there abouts and stomach emptying takes about 4 -5 hours.. then she would have had to eat well before then.
(bbm)The pineapple if that is indeed what it was was already in her small intestine.. passed the duodenum. It had been more than just a few hours.

It does not matter in the scheme of things whether she ate it or not. It proves nothing. It is not a lie. I believe that they had no idea when she ate it., if she did.

Sorry, I've tried to stay away from this thread, but I have to interject here. From the AR:

[FONT=&quot]The proximal portion of the small intestine contains fragmented pieces of yellow to light green-tan apparent vegetable or fruit material which may represent fragments of pineapple.[/FONT]
​

The pineapple was in her duodenum -- not past it. The duodenum (shortened from the Latin duodenum digitorum, meaning twelve fingers in length) is also known as the proximal (opposite of distal) intestine. It connects the stomach to the jejunum (the mid-portion of the small intestine). Most of the chemical digestion takes place in the duodenum through gastric enzymes before moving on to the jejunum. If there is little breakdown in the composition or structure of food particles, it means it had just recently emptied from the stomach.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Sorry, I've tried to stay away from this thread, but I have to interject here. From the AR:

[FONT=&quot]The proximal portion of the small intestine contains fragmented pieces of yellow to light green-tan apparent vegetable or fruit material which may represent fragments of pineapple.[/FONT]
​

The pineapple was in her duodenum -- not past it. The duodenum (shortened from the Latin duodenum digitorum, meaning twelve fingers in length) is also known as the proximal (opposite of distal) intestine. It connects the stomach to the jejunum (the mid-portion of the small intestine). Most of the chemical digestion takes place in the duodenum through gastric enzymes before moving on to the jejunum. If there is little breakdown in the composition or structure of food particles, it means it had just recently emptied from the stomach.

Thanks for that.. When I was looking last night they made it clear the small intestine was below the duodenum.. Why would the medical examiner not say into the duodenum then? Why the small intestine??

 

[Landonsmom02]

Past tense is used ("were found"), and we know Peterson was not a BPD officer collecting evidence outside the Ramsey home. Cigarette butts were collected per the 12.26.1996 SW affidavit. Peterson "discovered" the parallel (not the butts) b/w the type of cigarettes while he was investigating the Amy case ~10 months later...

Totally confused. Were butts found the day of JBR crime? Were butts found the day of Amy's crime? if so, is SS saying the same brand was found at both crime scenes? 10 months later was when AMy was attacked right? SS isn't saying that after Amy's attack, LE went back to JBR home and found butts in Alley at that time?? :tantrum: Please help TIA

 

[Landonsmom02]

No they did not. Prove they lied..

There is none and no reason for them to lie. None. At this point, I am not 100% it was pineapple and with the digestion rate it sure does not seem to have been consumed any time after 9 pm.

So I just don't get the big deal about it at this point.

Umm a few psot back you just said so what if they lied?? Umm it's a big deal. Since they stated she was asleep when they got home. They couldn't budge from their story. THEY LIED!!!! Prove they didn't.