Intruder theories only - RDI theories not allowed! *READ FIRST POST* #2

[Mama2JML]

The vent was located in the boiler room, adjacent to the wine cellar. Some interesting details:

"A key argument supporting a possible intruder in the JonBenét Ramsey case is a belief by some investigators that she was killed in a basement boiler room.

This theory is supported, in part, by the existence of a basement window facing the street, outfitted with an open air duct, the Denver Rocky Mountain News has learned. That air duct may explain how a neighbor could have heard a scream the night the child died.

The boiler room theory is further buttressed, sources say, by the fact that remnants of the paint brush used to fashion the fatal garrote were found just outside that room, which is adjacent to the wine cellar where her body was found.

When grand jurors toured the house and grounds Oct. 29, several were seen studying the boiler room window and its unsealed air duct from the outside.

...

Melody Stanton, a Ramsey neighbor at the time, told police she woke with a start not long after midnight Dec. 26, 1996, to a frightening scream; her statement was first reported by the Globe supermarket weekly nearly a year later. ABC's '20/20' reported that Stanton typically slept with her window slightly open.

...

A source close to the family said auditory tests performed by police during a second search of the home in the summer of 1997 determined that sound travels more easily from the basement out to the street than it does up through the home's four levels." ​

http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1998/09jobene.html

 

[Global Justice Ops]

James Kolar proposes that the marks on JonBenet’s face and back were caused by Burke Ramsey’s railroad toy. I don’t understand how that could be possible.

One of the abrasions on the face is larger and wider than the mark that appears next to it. How could this happen if the toy was applied to her face? There would be two identical marks. What we see in the autopsy photograph is one small mark and another larger mark next to it.

I think this is consistent with an electroshock weapon. The larger mark being caused by electricity that had room to move around because the point of contact from which it came from was not applied on to her face.

 

[andreww]

James Kolar proposes that the marks on JonBenet’s face and back were caused by Burke Ramsey’s railroad toy. I don’t understand how that could be possible.

One of the abrasions on the face is larger and wider than the mark that appears next to it. How could this happen if the toy was applied to her face? There would be two identical marks. What we see in the autopsy photograph is one small mark and another larger mark next to it.

I think this is consistent with an electroshock weapon. The larger mark being caused by electricity that had room to move around because the point of contact from which it came from was not applied on to her face.

View attachment 61317

If those marks were caused by a taser, why weren't they ever able to find a model that actually matched those marks. The marks on her body are precisely 3cm apart. The closest taser they could find was 3.5 cms across the electrodes. I am sure that every manufacturer was contacted and every models specs were supplied. So why no match?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Global Justice Ops]

The Air Taser Stun Gun was a match, and the distance between the marks aligned with the distance between the weapon’s prongs.

Kolar tried to debunk Smit’s findings by shifting the prong that made contact with the skin to the left of the mark, as seen in the photograph below. When you shift the right prong back to the right and place it in the center of the mark, the left prong also moves into the center of the left mark. This is a perfect alignment. The left mark is larger because that prong was left off of the skin somewhat and the electricity had more space to move around and thus more skin to burn.

View attachment 61328

 

[andreww]

There is evidence of 'recent' disturbance in/around the window and debris from the window well in the wine cellar. It seems evident, IMHO, that the train room window is an obvious location by which the perp gained entry, exited, or attempted to do either/both. I am not convinced any of these possibilities occurred at this specific location on the 25th/26th.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Depends what you interpret as a recent disturbance doesn't it? You have a window that hasn't been touched in maybe 10 years, and you have JR going through that window several months before. I feel that it would still show signs of disturbance. Nobody saw that window open as JR said he closed it (without telling anyone). LS notes the mark on the wall, but JR claimed he came in wearing his dress shoes.

There is some really sketchy stuff going on with this case as even though JR claims he closed that window, the crime scene pics show it wide open!

 

[andreww]

The Air Taser Stun Gun was a match, and the distance between the marks aligned with the distance between the weapon’s prongs.

Kolar tried to debunk Smit’s findings by shifting the prong that made contact with the skin to the left of the mark, as seen in the photograph below. When you shift the right prong back to the right and place it in the center of the mark, the left prong also moves into the center of the left mark. This is a perfect alignment. The left mark is larger because that prong was left off of the skin somewhat and the electricity had more space to move around and thus more skin to burn.

View attachment 61328

Not sure who put that picture together, see my post here....

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...nk-a-Stungun-was-used&p=11085247#post11085247

 

[Global Justice Ops]

Not sure who put that picture together, see my post here....

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...nk-a-Stungun-was-used&p=11085247#post11085247

In your post you aligned it too far right Move the left marker to the center of the left abrasion where the stun gun's prong maid contact with the skin, and it will be a near perfect measurement of 3.5 cm.

In this picture, I adjusted it and it looks like a 3.5 cm match, consistent with the Air Taser model LS presented.

 

[Global Justice Ops]

Correction. 3.5 millimeters, not centimeters. I apologize.

 

[andreww]

You are trying to make a square peg fit a round hole. I measured the distance between the electrodes and the distance between the abrasions. There is a 3.5mm difference. I'd say without doubt that that taser was not the weapon used. And I'd assume used all his resources to find a taser that did match but couldn't.

If you believe the IDI theory, then it does not make sense that she was restrained if in fact a taser was used. Certainly two jolts would have been enough to sedate her long enough to get her out of the house without having to resort to strangulation and head bashing? If the intent was simply to get her in the basement for a sexual assault, why leave a ransom note? If the intent was a kidnapping gone wrong, why not leave through one of the main floor doors? Certainly would have been difficult for a perp to get himself and an unconscious child through that small basement window wouldn't it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[andreww]

Correction. 3.5 millimeters, not centimeters. I apologize.

You were actually right the first time, it's cms.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Global Justice Ops]

You are trying to make a square peg fit a round hole. I measured the distance between the electrodes and the distance between the abrasions. There is a 3.5mm difference. I'd say without doubt that that taser was not the weapon used. And I'd assume used all his resources to find a taser that did match but couldn't.

If you believe the IDI theory, then it does not make sense that she was restrained if in fact a taser was used. Certainly two jolts would have been enough to sedate her long enough to get her out of the house without having to resort to strangulation and head bashing? If the intent was simply to get her in the basement for a sexual assault, why leave a ransom note? If the intent was a kidnapping gone wrong, why not leave through one of the main floor doors? Certainly would have been difficult for a perp to get himself and an unconscious child through that small basement window wouldn't it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The distance between the prongs on the Air Taser model is 3.5 centimeters.

The distance between the abrasions on JonBenet's face and back are 3.5 centimeters.

The abrasions themselves match injuries sustained by other individuals who have had electroshock weapons used on them.

My original point was that Kolar was measuring the distance between the abrasions incorrectly. He was placing the starting measurement mark where the prong DID NOT make contact with the skin.

 

[andreww]

If he closed it, then somebody else opened it, because it is open in the crime scene photos.
If Patsy cleaned up the glass it's possible that more fragments broke off during a possible entry/exit.

You can't just say " IMO that wasn't the point of entry because there never was a point of entry or exit for that matter."

That is 100% assumption, and not a claim supported by evidence.

The basement could have been accessed through the window, and a person could have entered without disturbing the cobweb.

The only thing left to debate is the needle like branch.

Hold on, JR is obviously a suspect in this case. He is also the only person to claim that he saw that window unlatched. Why wouldn't he mention that? Why would he latch it? Beyond that there is very little beyond theory that suggests that anybody came in through that window besides John Ramsey. And I'd guess by his actions that the window was never unlatched. Its as ludicrous as finding the front door wide open and not mentioning it to police until 4 months later. If he believed a kidnapper was in his house he should have been yelling "I think I found how they got in".

 

[andreww]

The distance between the prongs on the Air Taser model is 3.5 centimeters.

The distance between the abrasions on JonBenet's face and back are 3.5 centimeters.

The abrasions themselves match injuries sustained by other individuals who have had electroshock weapons used on them.

My original point was that Kolar was measuring the distance between the abrasions incorrectly. He was placing the starting measurement mark where the prong DID NOT make contact with the skin.

The abrasions on her back are not 3.5 cms as the picture I posted shows.

SMIT: I think that the stun gun is one of the best clues left behind by the killer, as far as a clue, not only into a possible way we can find him, because someone would probably have seen him with a stun gun, but it also may explain why JonBenet did not cry out when she was first abducted. There has been a lot of theories on the stun gun. I am convinced that a stun gun was used. I am not positive that it is an Air Taser stun gun.

KING: Meaning?

SMIT: Meaning that the Air Taser stun gun is as close as we've been able to find to the marks on JonBenet.

 

[Global Justice Ops]

The abrasions on her back are not 3.5 cms as the picture I posted shows.

The abrasions are 3.5 cm apart. I showed it to be true after realigning the measurement points. I even supplied a photograph of the correction.

Can we please stop debating a mathematical fact. It will be the same no matter how much one person wants it not to be.

Kolar even acknowledged the abrasions are 3.5 cm apart. He just tried to show that the stun gun was not a match by showing an incorrect measurement compassion figure. The picture above in grey and white with the stun gun placed on the abrasions are from his book. The red arrows are from me showing the misalignment.

 

[tovarisch]

When I go through my logic, and projecting the attack on sleeping JB, the first thing what any attacker would have done, if he did not have a stun gun, it would he covered her mouth with his hand. It`s my opinion that`s how a big bruise (scratch) and a range of smalsl on her face left, simply from a thumb, and other fingers while he tightly covered her mouth with his hand. The big scratch left by a thumb. Go to the mirror and cover your mouth with a hand, the mirror will tell you the story. The first attacker was at the right side of her bed.

I also believe that she started fighting off with her legs, because her top part and hands had been tightly pressed to the bed with the attacker #1. I believe that the second attacker stood from the other side of the bed and restrained her legs, leaving scratches on the lower part of her left leg. I also believe that was the only moment when JB was able to touch attacker #1 hands, his DNA discovered under her nails. When he was pressing her mouth with his hand, and she tried to release it. She did not have much more chances.

I can not give the exact description what was the next step, but they needed to bring her up vertically to inflict the head blow, and JB was conscious and fighting, covering her mouth--- must to be done. Then they brought her up, never releasing the hand from the mouth, hit her at the head, the second attacker did, thus blood spots on the pillow, she never regained conscious after this.
They took her to the basement.

Why we need to push stun gun theory if pathologist said it was bruises, scratches.

 

[tovarisch]

I need to add that blood spots on the pillow came from JB`s nose when she was hit at her head. Proves that head blow came at her bedroom, first.

 

[Global Justice Ops]

The head blow did NOT come before the garrote was applied. Look at the nature of the fracture. That kind of injury would render any one unconscious.

Now look at the autopsy photos. There are fingernail marks above the ligature. Small, semi circle abrasions from where she tried to pull the cord off as the perpetrator tightened it.

There is no way she could have resisted like that if she had already been struck over the head.

The lack of swelling and bleeding is all you need to know in order to conclude this, but since that has been contested, I offered another take.

Again, if JonBenet had been struck on the head first she would never have been able to resist the strangulation and leave fingernail marks that are visible in the autopsy photos.

 

[otg]

The head blow did NOT come before the garrote was applied. Look at the nature of the fracture. That kind of injury would render any one unconscious. Now look at the autopsy photos. There are fingernail marks above the ligature. Small, semi circle abrasions from where she tried to pull the cord off as the perpetrator tightened it. There is no way she could have resisted like that if she had already been struck over the head. The lack of swelling and bleeding is all you need to know in order to conclude this, but since that has been contested, I offered another take. Again, if JonBenet had been struck on the head first she would never have been able to resist the strangulation and leave fingernail marks that are visible in the autopsy photos.

Please post (or link to) a photo showing these "fingernail marks" you refer to.
As to your statement referring to a "lack of swelling and bleeding," perhaps you should read the autopsy again. If you can't find where it describes the cerebral swelling and bleeding, let me know and I'll quote it.

 

[Mama2JML]

WARNING: AUTOPSY PHOTO

Dr. Meyer noted abrasions of the skin, above and below the ligature, on the front of JonBenét's neck:

"The skin of the anterior neck above and below the ligature furrow contains areas of petechial hemorrhage and abrasion encompassing an area measuring approximately 3 X 2 inches. The remainder of the abrasions and petechial hemorrhages of the skin above and below the anterior projection of the ligature furrow are nonpatterned, purple to rust colored, and present in the midline, right, and left areas of the anterior neck."​

The photo requested:




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Global Justice Ops]

Please post (or link to) a photo showing these "fingernail marks" you refer to.
As to your statement referring to a "lack of swelling and bleeding," perhaps you should read the autopsy again. If you can't find where it describes the cerebral swelling and bleeding, let me know and I'll quote it.

WARNING: POST CONTAINS GRAPHIC PHOTOGRAPHS

Thanks Mama2JML, I’ll add on to what you posted.

The Fingernail Marks
"It is not unusual in homicidal ligature strangulation to find that there is more than one ligature mark, each of varying intensity and crossing each other, in parallel or at an angle to each other. Together with such an appearance, one quite commonly sees abrasions caused by movement of a ligature across the neck, or associated fingernail marks, either from the victim attempting to remove the ligature or (together with finger- tip bruising) from the assailant attempting to secure the ligature and/or restrain the neck from moving or even attempting manual strangulation." - A Guide to the Physical Analysis of Ligature Patterns in Homicide Investigations

"The autopsy report supports the conclusion that she was alive before she was asphyxiated by strangulation and that she fought her attacker in some manner”

“Evidence gathered during the autopsy is consistent with the inference that she struggled to remove the garrote from her neck.” – Judge Julie Carnes

Here is a crop of the same photograph, enhanced for higher contrast.


The Head Injury
The head injury is a severe closed skull fracture, a fracture where the bone does not protrude externally through the skin.

Excerpts from the Autopsy Report.
-External scalp examination: “No scalp trauma is identified."
-Internal brain examination: "No inflammation is identified."

Symptoms of Severe Skull Fractures
- Leaking of cerebrospinal fluid usually occurs through the nose. (None on JBR)
- Blood in the ears or nose (None on JBR)
- Deformity or facial asymmetry (None on JBR)
-Swelling of the injured area or head (None on JBR)

Dr. Cyril Wecht - If you inflict a blow like that on someone whose heart is beating," he asserts, "the heart doesn't stop, because the cardiac and respiratory centers are at the base of the brain. You're not damaging that with a blow to the top of the head. It'll become compromised as the brain swells, but initially there's no compromise. They control your heart and lungs. The heart continues to beat. The blood continues to flow. But in the Ramsey case, they got less than a teaspoon and a half of blood. If you have a beating heart and the carotid arteries are carrying blood, this person doesn't die right away. That means that blow was inflicted when she was already dead or dying.

Coroner Mike Doberson- reviewed the autopsy photographs and thinks there would have been much more internal bleeding inside the brain if JonBenét had been struck first and strangled later."

Summary: JonBenet was killed with the garrote and then struck over the head. This is why she has a severe skull fracture without exhibiting any symptoms of it. She was already dead. All biological functions had ceased by the time she was struck on the bead. The garrote had closed off all blood flow to her brain from the carotid arteries. There was no swelling or external bleeding, and VERY little internal bleeding. The killer did it as a final check to ensure that she would die before the coward ran off into the night. Look at this photograph of her. Look at her head and surrounding areas. There is no swelling or bleeding. She looks like she is sleeping.