Intruder theories only - RDI theories not allowed! *READ FIRST POST* #2

[Mama2JML]

The transcripts can be very confusing. I hope this helps...

Photo 292 is not the photo of the card in JonBenét's wastebasket. Photo 292 depicts the book & poem from which Santa read on the 23rd. The photo of the card in JonBenét's wastebasket is not numbered. It's a screen capture from police video.

Photo 292:

0440

4 TRIP DEMUTH: Look at photo 292.

5 PATSY RAMSEY: I think that was the book that

6 Santa Claus read from. I don't know for sure, but

7 that --

8 TRIP DEMUTH: Is that where you left it?

9 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably. I mean, in that

10 general vicinity. He was sitting in a chair just

11 inside the living room, and I was in the dining room

12 sort of feeding him presents to give out.

13 TOM HANEY: That would have been a close

14 proximity?

15 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. Yeah.

16 TRIP DEMUTH: Looking at 292.

17 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. This is a little poem.

...

0441

10 TRIP DEMUTH: You are talking about the

11 little white --

12 PATSY RAMSEY: The white note on top of the

13 typed --

14 TRIP DEMUTH: Poem, in photo 292.

15 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.​

​

Video still photo:

0556

13 TOM HANEY: Next we have two color copies

14 of photo --

15 PATSY RAMSEY: Christmas something, I don't

16 know what it is.

17 TRIP DeMUTH: That's, I'll tell you what

18 that is, that is a still photo from a videotape.

19 It was looking down into a trash can. I don't

20 know which one for sure.

21 TOM HANEY: In the house.

22 TRIP DeMUTH: In the house, yeah. Took a

23 wastebasket in the house.

24 Do you recognize this stationery?

25 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't know recognize

0557

1 anything. I mean, it looks like a Christmas

2 card, you know --

3 TRIP DeMUTH: Uh-huh (yes).

4 PATSY RAMSEY: That type of...

5 TRIP DeMUTH: Is it different than the

6 stationery that poems, the Christmas poems were

7 written on?

8 PATSY RAMSEY: I think so because this has

9 a -- I don't remember that big bow like that,

10 and I don't know I can do this type of typing.

11 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.

12 PATSY RAMSEY: Type face on that. Where is

13 that? Didn't we have a picture?

14 TRIP DeMUTH: The police report has a -- do

15 you have the page number to that one?

16 PATSY RAMSEY: The video picture is of

17 the --

18 TOM HANEY: You know how you pan with the

19 video camera, police officer pans with the video

20 camera --

21 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, his video.

22 TOM HANEY: Yes.

23 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh.

24 TOM HANEY: Pans down into a wastebasket.

25 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh.

0558

1 TRIP DeMUTH: I don't have a number.​

​

 

[tovarisch]

I found new "pearl" in the JB`s killer`s process of reasoning.

Explanation is needed from others who could comprehend what was said and why.

Here :

"you are not the only fat cat around so don`t think that killing will be difficult."

I was thinking for couples of days on this. I took negative "not" out of contest to look from the opposite angle. Then it would read as " you are the only fat cat around so think that killing will be difficult".

But, because you are NOT the only fat cat around so DON`T think the killing will be difficult.

It means that in Boulder city killing is not difficult if you are fat cat ?

What this insanity means? Money, connections, what?

 

[andreww]

It doesn't mean anything. Just Patsy being dramatic.

But I think the meaning is pretty clear, that if they don't cooperate, there are plenty of rich people with young children that will.


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[tovarisch]

It doesn't mean anything. Just Patsy being dramatic.

But I think the meaning is pretty clear, that if they don't cooperate, there are plenty of rich people with young children that will.


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It`s not about cooperation that killer talked in the end of the ransom next to the Victory!. Killer talked about the "killing will not be difficult" because there were other fat cats there.

This part of ransom is important, killer became personal, switching to John from Mr. And he talked about other fat cats around, that made the killing not difficult. It`s in one sentence, we should listen carefully to every word that came out of the killer`s mouth in the personal part of the note.

Let`s dissect this sentence word by word.
Was killer right that John is not the only fat cat around there? Yes. Boulder is a wealthy people city.
Was the killer right that killing of this magnitude wont`t be difficult there? Yes, he was, to this day.
Did he said that growing brain won`t help? Yes, to this day.
Killer said why-- because there were other fat cats around.

Instead of pinning on Patsy, why won`t we try to listen carefully?

 

[andreww]

It`s not about cooperation that killer talked in the end of the ransom next to the Victory!. Killer talked about the "killing will not be difficult" because there were other fat cats there.

This part of ransom is important, killer became personal, switching to John from Mr. And he talked about other fat cats around, that made the killing not difficult. It`s in one sentence, we should listen carefully to every word that came out of the killer`s mouth in the personal part of the note.

Let`s dissect this sentence word by word.
Was killer right that John is not the only fat cat around there? Yes. Boulder is a wealthy people city.
Was the killer right that killing of this magnitude wont`t be difficult there? Yes, he was, to this day.
Did he said that growing brain won`t help? Yes, to this day.
Killer said why-- because there were other fat cats around.

Instead of pinning on Patsy, why won`t we try to listen carefully?

I did listen. I gave my opinion about what that sentence meant.

"you are not the only fat cat around so don`t think that killing will be difficult."

If you read that sentence in context you will note that it came right after the threats to follow their directions closely. The inference here is that if John does not follow their directions, his daughter will be executed, and they will find some other "fat cat" to extort money out of.

So at the beginning of the letter there is the impression that this is a very personal crime, the supposed abductor being aware of John's business, his home, and his family. But that sentence is contrary, basically saying that if this crime doesn't work out, they'll find some other fat cat to extort.

But whatever, its all fictional. The FBI knew it, the Ramseys knew it, and anybody with any common sense knows it as well.

 

[tovarisch]

I did listen. I gave my opinion about what that sentence meant.



If you read that sentence in context you will note that it came right after the threats to follow their directions closely. The inference here is that if John does not follow their directions, his daughter will be executed, and they will find some other "fat cat" to extort money out of.

So at the beginning of the letter there is the impression that this is a very personal crime, the supposed abductor being aware of John's business, his home, and his family. But that sentence is contrary, basically saying that if this crime doesn't work out, they'll find some other fat cat to extort.

But whatever, its all fictional. The FBI knew it, the Ramseys knew it, and anybody with any common sense knows it as well.

Your interpretation of the killer`s personal message to John is far beyond of what it said in this sentence. He(they) never said they would go after another fat cat. It simply explained to John why it was done and why it would be not difficult. In the beginning of ransom they explained why they attacked family, in the end they explained why it was not difficult.
It was not difficult for the killer, the killer himself was saying, because of other fat cats around. Meaning, either the killer was part of the fat cats or to my interpretation, moral, financial, informational support to killer, if he (they) were hired, order to do the crime with full support on their side.

NO, it`s not true what you are saying. FBI does not know to this day, Ramsey do not know to this day, investigators do not know, prosecutors of the state of Colorado do not know to this day. Prosecutor knew and know now-- it`s not enough evidence to pin the crime on parents, that` only thing that everybody knows to this days, and they all people with common sense. Common sense does not allow all this people betray their professional diligence and honesty.

 

[icedtea4me]

I found new "pearl" in the JB`s killer`s process of reasoning.

Explanation is needed from others who could comprehend what was said and why.

Here :

"you are not the only fat cat around so don`t think that killing will be difficult."

I was thinking for couples of days on this. I took negative "not" out of contest to look from the opposite angle. Then it would read as " you are the only fat cat around so think that killing will be difficult".

But, because you are NOT the only fat cat around so DON`T think the killing will be difficult.

It means that in Boulder city killing is not difficult if you are fat cat ?

What this insanity means? Money, connections, what?

Notice that the writer omitted any reference to JonBenet as in '...killing your daughter...', '...killing JonBenet...', '...killing her...' This would tell me that the killing was, indeed, difficult because of the inability to place a reference to her after the word 'killing'.

 

[otg]

Notice that the writer omitted any reference to JonBenet as in '...killing your daughter...', '...killing JonBenet...', '...killing her...' This would tell me that the killing was, indeed, difficult because of the inability to place a reference to her after the word 'killing'.

Kind of like the vague references in the 911 call, huh:

"There's a note left and our daughter is gone."

"She's six years old... she's blond... six years old."

"I just found the note and my daughter is missing."

"I'm the mother."

:waitasec:
​

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I found new "pearl" in the JB`s killer`s process of reasoning.

Explanation is needed from others who could comprehend what was said and why.

Here :

"you are not the only fat cat around so don`t think that killing will be difficult."

I was thinking for couples of days on this. I took negative "not" out of contest to look from the opposite angle. Then it would read as " you are the only fat cat around so think that killing will be difficult".

But, because you are NOT the only fat cat around so DON`T think the killing will be difficult.

It means that in Boulder city killing is not difficult if you are fat cat ?

What this insanity means? Money, connections, what?

I think that it does not matter. This whole Ransom reads like 7-8 bad movies that have catch phrases. I maintain that when they find the person who did this it will be a male who was 19-40 at the time.
It was not a Ramsey that wrote that note. Not in my opinion.

 

[Global Justice Ops]

That's a huge age bracket. I'm leaning towards 26-32.

 

[midwest mama]

That's a huge age bracket. I'm leaning towards 26-32.

Would you say why you feel this way?

 

[andreww]

Your interpretation of the killer`s personal message to John is far beyond of what it said in this sentence. He(they) never said they would go after another fat cat. It simply explained to John why it was done and why it would be not difficult. In the beginning of ransom they explained why they attacked family, in the end they explained why it was not difficult.
It was not difficult for the killer, the killer himself was saying, because of other fat cats around. Meaning, either the killer was part of the fat cats or to my interpretation, moral, financial, informational support to killer, if he (they) were hired, order to do the crime with full support on their side.

NO, it`s not true what you are saying. FBI does not know to this day, Ramsey do not know to this day, investigators do not know, prosecutors of the state of Colorado do not know to this day. Prosecutor knew and know now-- it`s not enough evidence to pin the crime on parents, that` only thing that everybody knows to this days, and they all people with common sense. Common sense does not allow all this people betray their professional diligence and honesty.

The FBI knew on Dec 26 the note was fake, and told BPD that they would find the girl dead. Steve Thomas, the head of the investigation at the time, believed Patsy wrote the note. The Ramsey's themselves immediately suspected the housekeeper, and never made any comments when the kidnappers didn't call, so even they didn't believe it was real. Many handwriting experts have examined that note and either they believe Patsy wrote it or they cannot exclude her as the author.

The only reason the Ramsey's were never prosecuted is that they covered up evidence, and they staged other evidence, making it impossible for LE to determine which of the three of them did it. Without their cooperation Alex Hunter was not going to press charges as he felt the case would be in unwinnable against the Ramsey's high priced lawyers. He was probably right about that but it still doesn't change the fact that Patsy wrote the note. Even the GJ agreed that John and Patsy should be charged with that aspect of the crime.


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[Mama2JML]

The FBI knew on Dec 26 the note was fake, and told BPD that they would find the girl dead. Steve Thomas, the head of the investigation at the time, believed Patsy wrote the note. The Ramsey's themselves immediately suspected the housekeeper, and never made any comments when the kidnappers didn't call, so even they didn't believe it was real. Many handwriting experts have examined that note and either they believe Patsy wrote it or they cannot exclude her as the author.

The only reason the Ramsey's were never prosecuted is that they covered up evidence, and they staged other evidence, making it impossible for LE to determine which of the three of them did it. Without their cooperation Alex Hunter was not going to press charges as he felt the case would be in unwinnable against the Ramsey's high priced lawyers. He was probably right about that but it still doesn't change the fact that Patsy wrote the note. Even the GJ agreed that John and Patsy should be charged with that aspect of the crime.


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The consensus of experts directly involved in the investigation is that Patsy Ramsey probably did NOT write the RN.


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[ScarlettScarpetta]

The FBI knew on Dec 26 the note was fake, and told BPD that they would find the girl dead. Steve Thomas, the head of the investigation at the time, believed Patsy wrote the note. The Ramsey's themselves immediately suspected the housekeeper, and never made any comments when the kidnappers didn't call, so even they didn't believe it was real. Many handwriting experts have examined that note and either they believe Patsy wrote it or they cannot exclude her as the author.

The only reason the Ramsey's were never prosecuted is that they covered up evidence, and they staged other evidence, making it impossible for LE to determine which of the three of them did it. Without their cooperation Alex Hunter was not going to press charges as he felt the case would be in unwinnable against the Ramsey's high priced lawyers. He was probably right about that but it still doesn't change the fact that Patsy wrote the note. Even the GJ agreed that John and Patsy should be charged with that aspect of the crime.


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Because someone wrote a note and the body was found does not make it fake from the start. Someone could have written it and then something went wrong and JB was killed and they hauled tail and had already left the note. The note is not fake it is a note.

I think that the crime was about needing to take JBR but I think the note was about sticking it to John Ramsey. Making it hurt more.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

That's a huge age bracket. I'm leaning towards 26-32.

It is a huge bracket because I believe it was a man, I can see all kinds of maturity in there and experiences.. But I do believe he will be under 40 and over 19.

 

[tovarisch]

To andreww:

Ransom was fake, and it was not. Fake because they were not after John`s pension contribution, they made a joke out of this. It was not fake-- it was written by the killer. Only very naïve people would wait for the phone call after reading it TO THE END. I mean Victory!, which means done deal.

FBI guess was as good as any average person on the street- girl would be dead. If abducted- dead later on, or right away.

When you path crossed with criminals, when they put you on their radar-- you lose. Most likely. No chance. No reason to wait. The only you can do - call 911.

No, that`s not why Alex Hunter refused to sign. If you want quote, I will find it. He refused to sign, heroic act in my eyes ,comparing to acts of other numerous participants in the case , he refused to sign because of lack of evidence against anyone who were investigated so far.

I repeat it: against anyone so far investigated.

 

[andreww]

To andreww:

Ransom was fake, and it was not. Fake because they were not after John`s pension contribution, they made a joke out of this. It was not fake-- it was written by the killer. Only very naïve people would wait for the phone call after reading it TO THE END. I mean Victory!, which means done deal.

FBI guess was as good as any average person on the street- girl would be dead. If abducted- dead later on, or right away.

When you path crossed with criminals, when they put you on their radar-- you lose. Most likely. No chance. No reason to wait. The only you can do - call 911.

No, that`s not why Alex Hunter refused to sign. If you want quote, I will find it. He refused to sign, heroic act in my eyes ,comparing to acts of other numerous participants in the case , he refused to sign because of lack of evidence against anyone who were investigated so far.

I repeat it: against anyone so far investigated.

You seem to have a great deal of
Insight in to what each line of the note meant, but in reality, those are only your opinions. There are things in that note that tell me it was Patsy who wrote it, and that is without the scores of handwriting experts opinions, none of them able to exclude her.

As for Alex Hunter, even a moron can see that this man, for some reason or another, decided to railroad this case. He declined to prosecute the case brought to him by his own police force, he declined to take the advice of the grand jury that he appointed, and for some reason, despite the fact that every professional around him was pointing at the Ramsey's, he hired washed up detective Lou Arndt, a vocal Ramsey sympathizer to take over the case.

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest there was an intruder. Dr Henry Lee has said that the DNA under her fingernails was degraded and could possibly have been there for weeks. The DNA on her panties could have been left during the manufacturing process. In fact he said he found similar DNA on other freshly opened panties produced in China. And, if an intruder left through that window, how the heck did a chair get in front of that closed train room door??

Combine all that with the fact that the Ramsey's have lied on many occasions, refused to take police interviews, and protected every member of their family with a different high priced attorney, and I think it becomes pretty obvious who the guilty parties are.

You say it's an intruder, but there is no way to disprove something that didn't happen. You say these intruders were cunning enough to enter the house without leaving a print, or any evidence to suggest they were there. They were like the wind. Yet John and Patsy's fibers end up on the duct tape and Garrote???


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[Mama2JML]

You seem to have a great deal of
Insight in to what each line of the note meant, but in reality, those are only your opinions. There are things in that note that tell me it was Patsy who wrote it, and that is without the scores of handwriting experts opinions, none of them able to exclude her.

As for Alex Hunter, even a moron can see that this man, for some reason or another, decided to railroad this case. He declined to prosecute the case brought to him by his own police force, he declined to take the advice of the grand jury that he appointed, and for some reason, despite the fact that every professional around him was pointing at the Ramsey's, he hired washed up detective Lou Arndt, a vocal Ramsey sympathizer to take over the case.

Lou Smit. (Linda Arndt.)

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest there was an intruder. Dr Henry Lee has said that the DNA under her fingernails was degraded and could possibly have been there for weeks. The DNA on her panties could have been left during the manufacturing process. In fact he said he found similar DNA on other freshly opened panties produced in China.

DNA degrades quickly in the right conditions; i.e. In the presence of bacteria under a child's fingernails. The DNA profile in CODIS did not arrive in the crotch of JonBenét's panties during the manufacturing process.

And, if an intruder left through that window, how the heck did a chair get in front of that closed train room door??

The butler's pantry door is the more obvious theory of exit, IMO.

Combine all that with the fact that the Ramsey's have lied on many occasions, refused to take police interviews, and protected every member of their family with a different high priced attorney, and I think it becomes pretty obvious who the guilty parties are.

These aren't "facts". These are your biased opinions; your convictions.

You say it's an intruder, but there is no way to disprove something that didn't happen.

Huh?

You say these intruders were cunning enough to enter the house without leaving a print, or any evidence to suggest they were there.

The evidence exists, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.

They were like the wind. Yet John and Patsy's fibers end up on the duct tape and Garrote???

4 red fibers on the duct tape. No other fiber evidence collected from the victim's body and the implements used in her murder were sourced to the Ramseys.




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[andreww]

Lou Smit. (Linda Arndt.)

Lou Smit
Sorry, typing on an iPhone on a train, early in the morning, before my first coffee.

DNA degrades quickly in the right conditions; i.e. In the presence of bacteria under a child's fingernails. The DNA profile in CODIS did not arrive in the crotch of JonBenét's panties during the manufacturing process.

Early on in this case, forensic scientist Henry Lee purchased a new pair of similar panties for examination and found that they too had unidentified male DNA. Although different from that found on the victim’s underwear, it did suggest the possibility of contamination during the manufacturing or packing process, i.e., the unidentified male DNA might not have anything whatsoever to do with the murder.

Hmmm, do I believe Henry Lee or do I believe you?

The butler's pantry door is the more obvious theory of exit, IMO.

That's your opinion, but then why would the supposed intruder prop the suitcase up beneath the window? And If he intended to leave through a door, why even go in to the basement?

These aren't "facts". These are your biased opinions; your convictions.

I beg to differ, its all fact

Huh?

How do you disprove a lie. If I lie and tell you that while I was away from my desk, someone used my pencil, how do you prove that did or didn't happen? Provided there are no witnesses or video surveillance, as was the case in the Ramsey home, it is impossible to prove. If there are fingerprints or DNA on that pencil, it can only support my lie. In fact, any signs of any human contact, or any items that I suggest are out of place, can only bolster my lie.

The evidence exists, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.

Show me

4 red fibers on the duct tape. No other fiber evidence collected from the victim's body and the implements used in her murder were sourced to the Ramseys.

4 red fibers from a sweater that Patsy was wearing at the time are found on the duct tape that was placed on that girls dead mouth, and you don't see a problem with that?

 

[Mama2JML]

Lou Smit
Sorry, typing on an iPhone on a train, early in the morning, before my first coffee.

Been there, no problem...

Early on in this case, forensic scientist Henry Lee purchased a new pair of similar panties for examination and found that they too had unidentified male DNA. Although different from that found on the victim’s underwear, it did suggest the possibility of contamination during the manufacturing or packing process, i.e., the unidentified male DNA might not have anything whatsoever to do with the murder.

Hmmm, do I believe Henry Lee or do I believe you?

Certainly you should go with the expert, but more recent experts' analyses should take precedent as advancements have been made and more information has come to light since Lee's "experiment". We've learned, per Kolar, the "strength of the unknown sample found in JonBenét’s underwear" was 10x greater than that of the control sample. We've also learned of the presence of the same DNA profile in two other locations on the victim's clothing. Are you aware of Lee's opinion now?

That's your opinion, but then why would the supposed intruder prop the suitcase up beneath the window? And If he intended to leave through a door, why even go in to the basement?

Many possibilities exist, Andreww

I beg to differ, its all fact

You are certainly allowed to have an opinion, but your opinions aren't necessarily supported by facts.

How do you disprove a lie. If I lie and tell you that while I was away from my desk, someone used my pencil, how do you prove that did or didn't happen? Provided there are no witnesses or video surveillance, as was the case in the Ramsey home, it is impossible to prove. If there are fingerprints or DNA on that pencil, it can only support my lie. In fact, any signs of any human contact, or any items that I suggest are out of place, can only bolster my lie.

Has your goal here been to disprove the existence of an intruder or to prove the guilt of the Ramseys? If either is the case, you're just spinning your wheels...

Show me

Gladly, but you'll need to open your eyes, loosen your convictions, and be willing to look.

4 red fibers from a sweater that Patsy was wearing at the time are found on the duct tape that was placed on that girls dead mouth, and you don't see a problem with that?

Perhaps, but you should stick with Henry Lee. What's his opinion? He's the expert.




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