Intruder theories only - RDI theories not allowed! *READ FIRST POST* #2

[BBB167893]

:goodpost:

In reference to that which is BBM, for anyone interested, the full text of Darnay Hoffman's fax to Thomas "Doc" Miller is attached below:

View attachment 69603




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They were talking about the experts the Ramseys hired, though: Rile, Cunningham, Vacca, and a someone else.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I am laughing over here at people trying to prove something you can not prove. You claim something that proves it, we knock it down and then you come back.

I am done with this note. If that is all RDI has to hang its hat on it does not need me to tell me it is silly.


I am more curious about like crimes and details about the crime that may help us point to a suspect.

 

[BBB167893]

What I don't understand is that why people when they can see clearly that no one named Patsy as the author with any certainty, that there was not enough to even take it to court and it was not good enough to put forward to a jury, that people want to believe she did.

1) I don't know anyone who WANTS to believe it, Scarlett. That includes me.

2) Alex Hunter made it clear that he didn't think any expert analysis would make it into court. We know what he wanted to do.

What I think IDI is at its core is about looking at the evidence plainly and clearly with no color.

Are you kidding? And remember, I know what I'm talking about.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

1) I don't know anyone who WANTS to believe it, Scarlett. That includes me.

2) Alex Hunter made it clear that he didn't think any expert analysis would make it into court. We know what he wanted to do.



Are you kidding? And remember, I know what I'm talking about.

Just because you say you know what you are talking about doesn't mean I or others believe it.Your opinion carries no more weight than mine.

 

[BBB167893]

So Patsy should have been prosecuted because it is a possibility she made her handwriting confusing enough that they can't tie it to her. And 2 pages ago you said they did tie it to her. LOL!!!

You'd realize what a good point he has, Roy, if you understood him.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Dave this thread is for people who believe the Ramseys did not do. Please stop trying to prove they did here. Just please leave us alone here. We only have one thread, you have 1000.

 

[BBB167893]

There are MANY MORE factors that led the 6 experts, consulted by LE, to believe Patsy did not write the note. Remember, the consensus of these experts was between "probably did NOT" & "elimination" . So, what exactly do you qualify as a "good chance"?

If all that's true, then why wouldn't Haddon release those reports? Again, it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to connect the dots.

That's on of many questions I have.

 

[BBB167893]

I think that most of us understand that a 100% certainty cannot be made in this case. Although – and, hahaha – Epstein did claim 100% cetainty. So, go figure.

Oh, I agree, he overreached. Doesn't make him wrong.

To say that she could not be eliminated is to say little, particularly when we learn that several others fell into the same category as her. This is why Thomas was always very particular about saying that she was the only one known to be in the house that could not be eliminated.

Precisely my point.

If you read through the Epstein and Thomas, etc depos given for Carnes in the Wolf suit it becomes pretty obvious that, right or wrong, think what you will, none of the experts (incl. the 4 BPD experts) identified Mrs Ramsey and that although she could not be eliminated, she was not believed to be the author.

Like I keep saying, even if that is true, then it was wrong. Frankly, we don't know how much time was devoted, what methodology was used (or even if it's legit anymore), or how much consideration was given to the writing being disguised. Even Osborne admitted it's a factor.

She could still be the author, but none of these credible (accepted by the court) experts concluded such. IDI simply do not find it meaningful that she could not be eliminated, many people could not be eliminated (read the Thomas depo).

Again, even IF that's true, there were other ways to eliminate them.

Look, I've said it before, and it bears repeating: I have less faith in the practice of handwriting analysis as time goes on. Not just in this case, but for a few reasons.

 

[BBB167893]

The National Enquirer published the sample depicted in the image below., courtesy of Cherokee @ FFJ:

View attachment 69677


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Oh, suddenly, you're all buddy-buddy with the National Enquirer, Mama?

 

[andreww]

Dave this thread is for people who believe the Ramseys did not do. Please stop trying to prove they did here. Just please leave us alone here. We only have one thread, you have 1000.

I don't think he ever said she did it. All he said was she wrote the ransom note. I don't think that crosses any lines.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I don't think he ever said she did it. All he said was she wrote the ransom note. I don't think that crosses any lines.

Of course it does. You believe that she wrote it then you believe the R's are responsible.

And this is the thread that looks away from the R's.

 

[BBB167893]

I am laughing over here at people trying to prove something you can not prove. You claim something that proves it, we knock it down and then you come back.

Scarlett, you couldn't knock me down with a lead pipe. And you better believe I'll keep coming back. I'll never give up. No retreat, and no surrender.

I am done with this note. If that is all RDI has to hang its hat on it does not need me to tell me it is silly.

You WISH that was all we had!

I am more curious about like crimes and details about the crime that may help us point to a suspect.

I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, it was the comparison of this case to others that help in my conversion. Allow me to post an excerpt from An Angel Betrayed:

Finally, in 2002, the dents became large holes. That year, American television screens were full of the faces of kidnapping victims, whose names we still remember to this day: Danielle Van Dam, Samantha Runnion, and Elizabeth Smart (who was returned safely, thank the gods). And of all of those little girls who were murdered, not one of them even remotely resembled what happened to JonBenet. For years, Team Ramsey told us that JonBenet was killed by some pedophile killer, and we were forced to see what real pedophile killers do: they don’t kill their victims inside the home, they don’t redress their victims, and they dump their victims after killing them. Lin Wood, the Ramsey lawyer, had the unmitigated gall to co-opt the pain these families were in to push his clients’ wild claim. Well, he didn’t get away with it. Nancy Grace, the tough-as-nails Southern hellcat prosecutor was on that Larry King show that night, as was Marc Klaas, who has been a tireless advocate for laws to protect children from predators ever since his daughter Polly was kidnapped from her bedroom and murdered by a career criminal who had just gotten paroled for the umpteenth time in 1993. And they didn’t go for it. Nancy pointed out how different JonBenet’s killing was from those other cases, and Klaas, who is in a unique position to understand just what an insult Wood was committing to the memories of the victims’ families, really went to town, reminding the audience that, like the Ramseys claim they have, David Westerfield, the killer of little Danielle Van Dam, also had no history of violent or deviant behavior. He also noted the tendency the Ramseys and Wood have for threatening lawsuits against anyone who questions their version of what happened. And it was in that moment that I saw just what kind of people the Ramseys associate themselves with to destroy their enemies. Wood, this backwoods John Edwards-with-a-mean-streak redneck lawyer, sat there with his trademark “don’t-******-with-me-punk” grin and said that no one should be intimidated by the facts, and if you don’t know about the case, don’t talk about it. The heated sibilance in his voice made his polite words poisonous with very thinly-veiled threats. I couldn’t believe it. This man, supposedly an advocate for his “victim” clients, had just threatened a genuine victim’s advocate.

 

[BBB167893]

Just because you say you know what you are talking about doesn't mean I or others believe it.Your opinion carries no more weight than mine.

Oh, I don't mean that. When I say I know what I'm talking about, I'm referring to when I WAS an IDI. I can look back on it now and safely say that truth had very little to do with it.

 

[Mama2JML]

Oh, suddenly, you're all buddy-buddy with the National Enquirer, Mama?

The original source for this photo is Cherokee, but you knew that already. I posted a RDI source to fulfill a RDI poster's request. I am not a fan of the NE's brand of "journalism", but there is no slanted analysis depicted in the image I posted.


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[andreww]

Scarlett, you couldn't knock me down with a lead pipe. And you better believe I'll keep coming back. I'll never give up. No retreat, and no surrender.



You WISH that was all we had!



I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, it was the comparison of this case to others that help in my conversion. Allow me to post an excerpt from An Angel Betrayed:

Finally, in 2002, the dents became large holes. That year, American television screens were full of the faces of kidnapping victims, whose names we still remember to this day: Danielle Van Dam, Samantha Runnion, and Elizabeth Smart (who was returned safely, thank the gods). And of all of those little girls who were murdered, not one of them even remotely resembled what happened to JonBenet. For years, Team Ramsey told us that JonBenet was killed by some pedophile killer, and we were forced to see what real pedophile killers do: they don’t kill their victims inside the home, they don’t redress their victims, and they dump their victims after killing them. Lin Wood, the Ramsey lawyer, had the unmitigated gall to co-opt the pain these families were in to push his clients’ wild claim. Well, he didn’t get away with it. Nancy Grace, the tough-as-nails Southern hellcat prosecutor was on that Larry King show that night, as was Marc Klaas, who has been a tireless advocate for laws to protect children from predators ever since his daughter Polly was kidnapped from her bedroom and murdered by a career criminal who had just gotten paroled for the umpteenth time in 1993. And they didn’t go for it. Nancy pointed out how different JonBenet’s killing was from those other cases, and Klaas, who is in a unique position to understand just what an insult Wood was committing to the memories of the victims’ families, really went to town, reminding the audience that, like the Ramseys claim they have, David Westerfield, the killer of little Danielle Van Dam, also had no history of violent or deviant behavior. He also noted the tendency the Ramseys and Wood have for threatening lawsuits against anyone who questions their version of what happened. And it was in that moment that I saw just what kind of people the Ramseys associate themselves with to destroy their enemies. Wood, this backwoods John Edwards-with-a-mean-streak redneck lawyer, sat there with his trademark “don’t-******-with-me-punk” grin and said that no one should be intimidated by the facts, and if you don’t know about the case, don’t talk about it. The heated sibilance in his voice made his polite words poisonous with very thinly-veiled threats. I couldn’t believe it. This man, supposedly an advocate for his “victim” clients, had just threatened a genuine victim’s advocate.

Marc Klaas is an inspiration. He is also the blueprint of a parent whose child has gone missing. Willing to go to the ends of the earth, willing to aid LE any way possible without any concern for his own legal welfare. I'm sure he was a suspect in the beginning as well, but he surrounded himself with police rather than avoiding them. Thats what parents do.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Scarlett, you couldn't knock me down with a lead pipe. And you better believe I'll keep coming back. I'll never give up. No retreat, and no surrender.



You WISH that was all we had!



I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, it was the comparison of this case to others that help in my conversion. Allow me to post an excerpt from An Angel Betrayed:

Finally, in 2002, the dents became large holes. That year, American television screens were full of the faces of kidnapping victims, whose names we still remember to this day: Danielle Van Dam, Samantha Runnion, and Elizabeth Smart (who was returned safely, thank the gods). And of all of those little girls who were murdered, not one of them even remotely resembled what happened to JonBenet. For years, Team Ramsey told us that JonBenet was killed by some pedophile killer, and we were forced to see what real pedophile killers do: they don’t kill their victims inside the home, they don’t redress their victims, and they dump their victims after killing them. Lin Wood, the Ramsey lawyer, had the unmitigated gall to co-opt the pain these families were in to push his clients’ wild claim. Well, he didn’t get away with it. Nancy Grace, the tough-as-nails Southern hellcat prosecutor was on that Larry King show that night, as was Marc Klaas, who has been a tireless advocate for laws to protect children from predators ever since his daughter Polly was kidnapped from her bedroom and murdered by a career criminal who had just gotten paroled for the umpteenth time in 1993. And they didn’t go for it. Nancy pointed out how different JonBenet’s killing was from those other cases, and Klaas, who is in a unique position to understand just what an insult Wood was committing to the memories of the victims’ families, really went to town, reminding the audience that, like the Ramseys claim they have, David Westerfield, the killer of little Danielle Van Dam, also had no history of violent or deviant behavior. He also noted the tendency the Ramseys and Wood have for threatening lawsuits against anyone who questions their version of what happened. And it was in that moment that I saw just what kind of people the Ramseys associate themselves with to destroy their enemies. Wood, this backwoods John Edwards-with-a-mean-streak redneck lawyer, sat there with his trademark “don’t-******-with-me-punk” grin and said that no one should be intimidated by the facts, and if you don’t know about the case, don’t talk about it. The heated sibilance in his voice made his polite words poisonous with very thinly-veiled threats. I couldn’t believe it. This man, supposedly an advocate for his “victim” clients, had just threatened a genuine victim’s advocate.

You need help. I am not impressed by you.

STOP. It is the INTRUDER thread.. NOT the RDI thread. Stop trying to prove your theories here.

 

[andreww]

The original source for this photo is Cherokee, but you knew that already. I posted a RDI source to fulfill a RDI poster's request. I am not a fan of the NE's brand of "journalism", but there is no slanted analysis depicted in the image I posted.


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And the only reaction my analysis of it got was crickets. The truth is a bitter pill.

 

[Mama2JML]

Oh, I don't mean that. When I say I know what I'm talking about, I'm referring to when I WAS an IDI. I can look back on it now and safely say that truth had very little to do with it.

You've mentioned this a few (too many) times. I'm calling your bluff. Prove it.




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[BBB167893]

I don't think he ever said she did it. All he said was she wrote the ransom note. I don't think that crosses any lines.

Actually, andreww, I didn't even say THAT. The rules say I can't post any RDI theories here. And I haven't. But it didn't say ANYTHING about difference of opinion on specific items, now did it?

And let me say a few other things:

1) I fully intended to make that one correction I started with, and leave you guys in peace. I even tried to start a different thread so we could continue the conversation. Someone--I don't know who--has decided that my thread was not worth posting. I don't why. Maybe someone with greater patience and tact than I can get to it.

2) When I read Scarlett's entreaty a few minutes ago

Dave this thread is for people who believe the Ramseys did not do. Please stop trying to prove they did here. Just please leave us alone here. We only have one thread, you have 1000.

I was very upset. Fire-breathing mad, you might say. I was all set to say, "forget the rules" and get down and VERRRRY dirty. But I'm a bit calmer now, and I'm a big enough man to admit when I'm in the wrong. There's no need for me to come here and make my argument. I've already put my theories and evidence into print. I've covered just about all these arguments by doing so. Anyone who wants it is open to read it.

I know what it's like to be an IDI. I don't agree with it, but, despite the best efforts of scum like Lin Wood, we still have free speech and free assembly in this country. Everybody deserves their own platform, and if the IDIs want their little kingdom, I'm cool with it. From here on, I'll act like it's not here.

This is my last offering on this thread. Anyone who wants to talk knows where to find me.

Good night, good luck, and God bless you.

 

[andreww]

There was someone who spoke to him, though:

"Many forensic document examiners have given their opinions as to who wrote the note. But the only one to testify before a grand jury in the case was Chet Ubowski, forensic document examiner for the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. Out of 100 people he analyzed for the Boulder Police Department, he found ONLY ONE person whom he thought may have authored the document, Patsy Ramsey. Investigative sources tell Fox News that the disguised letters and bleeding ink from the felt tipped pen used to write the note kept him from 100 percent ID of Mrs. Ramsey."

I think that deserves repeating Dave. Certainly doesn't sound like somebody he's all but dismissed as a suspect does it?