Intruder theories only - RDI theories not allowed! *READ FIRST POST* #2

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Well we don't know what it is because the cops never interviewed them properly.

Either way the information is valuable. If they were telling the truth then that's important as well because they DID hear things.

I just don't believe them. And someone committed this crime. If an intruder did it then they had to know something about the Ramseys based on the information in the ransom note.

Neighbors have killed people for years. In fact neighbors can get downright vicious and jealous with each other. They had the means, the motive and the access. And they lied about their story. Big red flags in my opinion.
 
Well we don't know what it is because the cops never interviewed them properly.

Either way the information is valuable. If they were telling the truth then that's important as well because they DID hear things.

I just don't believe them. And someone committed this crime. If an intruder did it then they had to know something about the Ramseys based on the information in the ransom note.

Neighbors have killed people for years. In fact neighbors can get downright vicious and jealous with each other. They had the means, the motive and the access. And they lied about their story. Big red flags in my opinion.

That is your right to not believe them, I happen to think that it rings true and very human. I think the big thing here is the police again dropped the ball in this case.
 
That is your right to not believe them, I happen to think that it rings true and very human. I think the big thing here is the police again dropped the ball in this case.

It is human nature for a witness to a crime to remember details later. If the Stantons had narrowed their timeline or added other details, that is human. Even changing the story to say she thought it was a scream that woke her up but now isn't exactly sure what it was, specifically, that woke her up...that would be consistent with human nature.

Saying you heard it then saying you didn't is completely changing your story. Not only changing it but changing it to a story contradictory to the first story. That is a lie. I don't think this type of lie is part of human nature - it doesn't protect anyone's feelings nor does it appear to inflate the importance of or protect the liar.

Yes, the cops should have followed up. To be honest, I don't know they didn't though. She obviously talked to a detective who appears to have been thorough in his questioning. It's not his fault her details were sketchy and contradictory. An interesting point is that there appears to have been a review of records, notes and recollection because it was rnoticed the detective who interviewed her didn't include the negative energy stuff and the record was amended. To me that says they were looked at but dismissed - rightly or wrongly
 
I only heard of Mrs. Stanton changing her story. I don't find ST credible enough to believe if he is the source for Mr. Stanton changing his story.
 
I only heard of Mrs. Stanton changing her story. I don't find ST credible enough to believe if he is the source for Mr. Stanton changing his story.

Ok, I understand if you have a bias against Thomas but why would he make this up? It's minor to the case. Even at trial this would be taken as timeline evidence but since it was changed from a specific time to a 2 or 4 hour window and then to a completely different day...I don't think either side would find the testimony very helpful.

Also, why lie or exaggerate something so easily be verified by the neighbor Stanton told and by the detective (not Thomas, Hartkopp) who took her statement during the canvas? Thomas isn't the only one to talk about it, either. Smit supposedly jumped on it and is one of the people to explain how credible it is that the scream would be heard across the street but not in the house. The Ramsey's investigator also commented on it. What isn't clear is if anyone else actually talked to her but the neighbor and Hartkopp.
 
Haven’t I been saying that the killer may have “stalked” the Ramseys?



Why would that be my argument when the killer DID take the victim to the basement. :blushing:

I'm saying that it doesn't make sense to say that someone who highly premeditated the crime would take the risk. If the Intruder went to all that trouble to set up the ransom note and preplanned the mutilation of the body, then he'd not likely just "RISK IT" when it came to being detected.


This suggests a few things. One is that he didn't act alone. There could have been someone else in the house to write the ransom note and stay in the kitchen waiting to hear if the house awoke.

Having a weapon on hand would only make sense if you had the ability to use it. Meaning the second person would need to be waiting upstairs prepared to "act" if he heard people upstairs making noise.








Exactly. So that eliminates someone who premeditated the crime to the extent that you suggest in trying to write the note to "get the attention of the FBI"





I know you are and it doesn't make any sense. That's what I'm saying.




Yep we've seen people do this many times. Adam Leroy Lane for example broke into a house and attacked a 16 year old girl while her parents were sleeping in the other room. The parents awoke and ran in to stop him. The mother held onto the blade of the knife in order to save her daughter. Turned out the guy was a serial killer.

But this was not a highly premeditated "I'm writing the ransom note to get the attention of the FBI" type serial killer. Those ones stalk their prey carefully and avoid detection.


.

Exactly. This is why I'm saying you need to spell it out step by step. Because it doesn't add up when you just jump around the theory like a pinball game. But you can deduct information about the chain of events that will lead you to a specific direction.


I think this is why so many people finally turned to RDI, because the more you look at how this thing was supposed to have gone down, the more it doesn't make sense.

If JBR was found in the basement garotted and dead, then it would make more sense to me that someone broke in and killed her. But that ransom note just doesn't make any sense.






Because they heard them in the house. Because Burke said the man took Jonbenet to the basement. Any number of reasons. Like I said, John could have been looking for a baseball bat or golf club and trying to run down while Patsy was on the phone. I AM NOT SAYING THIS HAPPENED I'm saying the criminal would have no way of knowing it wasn't happening. Even if he shoots John in the basement, there are TWO OTHER PEOPLE in the house who could be on the phone with the police and catch the guy in the act.


So this risk taking gives us important information. And so does the ransom note. The note being written in the house is ALSO a risk. It also indicates things in the note that let us know they knew John Ramsey, at least who he was. So that suggests careful stalking, not random serial killer psycho breaks in.

<snip>
I realize that I’m not going to convince you of anything, but I missed this post and now that I’ve discovered it, I can’t resist responding! :)

How would the killer know that he wasn’t seen entering (or leaving) the house? How would he know he hadn’t tripped a silent alarm? How would he know that he wouldn’t be captured on a security camera? Etc...

How would the killer know that Burke didn’t see him? Because Burke’s bedroom door was closed. Because it was the middle of the night – Christmas night – and as such it would be reasonable to assume that people were sleeping.

How would he know someone didn’t hear him? Because he was cautious, and quiet, and sneaky, and he watched and listened (while writing the note, perhaps) until he felt certain that it was safe to act.

It may not make sense to you that someone who premeditated this crime would take such a risk as entering the basement, but this is no more than an argument from personal incredulity, and it ignores the fact that offenders of this sort engage in high risk activity as a matter of course. They just simply don’t believe that they’re going to get caught. Narcissism, arrogance, etc?

It would not be possible to carry out a crime of this sort without assuming some risk. Just how much risk a person is willing to assume in any given situation depends on the individual and on what it is that they are trying to achieve.
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AK
 
I've addressed this before. First she didn't tell the police. She told a friend and the friend went to the police and told them.

But saying they "heard the scream" and having so much detail about hearing it in a way creates an "alibi.' If you were in your house and you heard it, you couldn't be at the scene right? But then the police show up at your door and you realize you've drawn attention to yourself and you shouldn't have said anything. So you tell a different story that you heard it two nights before and had made a mistake.

It could be that the details of what she supposedly said were exaggerated by media reports and she didn't get into detail.


However to me she didn't just say "I heard a scream" she said she woke up and woke her husband up and he said he heard metal scraping on concrete. And again. I know gossip flies fast around a neighborhood and that the cops really were not right in how they handled the crime scene. Perhaps people in the home heard the cops talking and spread it around. I don't know.

However it seems very odd to me that the husbands account matches the staging of the crime scene which is a detail I don't think was released until much later.

I've watched many crime scene shows of real life solving of cold cases and in most of the cases the cops figured out what happened by looking at who changed their story.


Say you decided to vandalize your neighbors property in the middle of the night. You go to their back yard and spray paint their pool deck with graffiti. Then you go home. The cops come and you are telling a friend, "Wow that's so weird, last night I heard a shout and it freaked me out. I woke up my husband and he listened as well. Then husband says "Yeah I heard rattling sounds and hissing." Then it turns out that spray paint cans make that sound.

You are saying you are in your room hearing things and have an alibi in your waking up your husband and him hearing sounds with you next to him. Both of you have alibied each other.

But then the cops start asking you questions and you realize that you have now involved yourself in the crime scene as a witness. You panic and say "No actually it wasn't that night, it was two nights earlier."

Seems pretty straightforward to me.
The husband and the wfe’s account differ – they heard different things at different times. The husband’s account remains the same, the wife’s account is uncertain.

Vandalizing your neighbor’s property is very much different than sexually assaulting and asphyxiating a child to death.

The Stantons were each other’s alibi, although I don’t think they even needed one. Reporting hearing things in the middle of the night adds nothing to that alibi, and, if they had committed this crime, than they would have been beyond stupid to tell anyone that they heard anything. They were sleeping; they saw nothing, they heard nothing and they’d tell nothing.
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AK
 
BBM
...
It is human nature for a witness to a crime to remember details later. If the Stantons had narrowed their timeline or added other details, that is human. Even changing the story to say she thought it was a scream that woke her up but now isn't exactly sure what it was, specifically, that woke her up...that would be consistent with human nature.

Saying you heard it then saying you didn't is completely changing your story. Not only changing it but changing it to a story contradictory to the first story. That is a lie. I don't think this type of lie is part of human nature - it doesn't protect anyone's feelings nor does it appear to inflate the importance of or protect the liar.

Yes, the cops should have followed up. To be honest, I don't know they didn't though. She obviously talked to a detective who appears to have been thorough in his questioning. It's not his fault her details were sketchy and contradictory. An interesting point is that there appears to have been a review of records, notes and recollection because it was rnoticed the detective who interviewed her didn't include the negative energy stuff and the record was amended. To me that says they were looked at but dismissed - rightly or wrongly
Sounds like you’ve described the situation in bold.
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AK
 
I only heard of Mrs. Stanton changing her story. I don't find ST credible enough to believe if he is the source for Mr. Stanton changing his story.

Hey one-eye! Good to see you. :)
...

AK
 
I only heard of Mrs. Stanton changing her story. I don't find ST credible enough to believe if he is the source for Mr. Stanton changing his story.

I'm not interested in "book writers" and their versions of what happened. What I'm interested in is WHY there isn't a police report on their versions of the stories?

Absolutely unheard of in a criminal investigation
 
I'm not interested in "book writers" and their versions of what happened. What I'm interested in is WHY there isn't a police report on their versions of the stories?



Absolutely unheard of in a criminal investigation


What makes you think there isn't police reports?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I'm not interested in "book writers" and their versions of what happened. What I'm interested in is WHY there isn't a police report on their versions of the stories?

Absolutely unheard of in a criminal investigation
The Stantons were interviewed by Detective Hartkopp on Jan. 6/97. There is a police report and Thomas alludes to it in his book.
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AK
 
Ok, I understand if you have a bias against Thomas but why would he make this up? It's minor to the case. Even at trial this would be taken as timeline evidence but since it was changed from a specific time to a 2 or 4 hour window and then to a completely different day...I don't think either side would find the testimony very helpful.

Also, why lie or exaggerate something so easily be verified by the neighbor Stanton told and by the detective (not Thomas, Hartkopp) who took her statement during the canvas? Thomas isn't the only one to talk about it, either. Smit supposedly jumped on it and is one of the people to explain how credible it is that the scream would be heard across the street but not in the house. The Ramsey's investigator also commented on it. What isn't clear is if anyone else actually talked to her but the neighbor and Hartkopp.

I really couldn't say why Thomas would make this up. The only reason why I ever believed Mr. Stanton said something about metal against concrete in the first place was because it was consistent with the crime scene. There never was a direct quote in MSM for his statements as there was for Mrs. Stanton. If he did recant, it's possible he and his wife discussed it and decided they wanted nothing to do with the situation. Not particularly admirable but I can see how terrifying something like that could be.
 
I wonder if this case will ever be solved? It's had every twist and turn you can think of and every theory by incredible minds and dullards alike thrown at it, and still, it persists a mystery.

As many cases of this type do, it train-wrecked from the start, and like a giant beast smashing an anthill with a club, the political and civil life of Boulder, Colorado was upheaved by a monster.

We can only know him by what he left behind. The terrible intimacy of it is we can know his inner life by this to a marked degree but not what he portrays to the world. If I were to go by his writings, his sentence structure, grammar and syntax, I would say he appears educated and reasonably intelligent but stumbles a bit at times. Not enough to matter. Nothing that would arouse my suspicions. It appears, he's been able to keep the secret.

It's a sad day for JonBenet Ramsey. Eighteen years on and I don't think we're any closer than we were on the day she was discovered with the sole exception of the DNA. The DNA may save the day. It might be the only think that does.
 
I wonder if this case will ever be solved? It's had every twist and turn you can think of and every theory by incredible minds and dullards alike thrown at it, and still, it persists a mystery.

As many cases of this type do, it train-wrecked from the start, and like a giant beast smashing an anthill with a club, the political and civil life of Boulder, Colorado was upheaved by a monster.

We can only know him by what he left behind. The terrible intimacy of it is we can know his inner life by this to a marked degree but not what he portrays to the world. If I were to go by his writings, his sentence structure, grammar and syntax, I would say he appears educated and reasonably intelligent but stumbles a bit at times. Not enough to matter. Nothing that would arouse my suspicions. It appears, he's been able to keep the secret.

It's a sad day for JonBenet Ramsey. Eighteen years on and I don't think we're any closer than we were on the day she was discovered with the sole exception of the DNA. The DNA may save the day. It might be the only think that does.
:goodpost:
I agree...
 
I really couldn't say why Thomas would make this up. The only reason why I ever believed Mr. Stanton said something about metal against concrete in the first place was because it was consistent with the crime scene. There never was a direct quote in MSM for his statements as there was for Mrs. Stanton. If he did recant, it's possible he and his wife discussed it and decided they wanted nothing to do with the situation. Not particularly admirable but I can see how terrifying something like that could be.

He perhaps thought of the possible profit forthcoming; with several books on the murder available, his needed HIS to be "better".
 
He perhaps thought of the possible profit forthcoming; with several books on the murder available, his needed HIS to be "better".

Oh yeah. Good thought. He was planning to monetize this before he left the force.
 
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