Irwin Attorney: ‘Jersey’ Bragged About Kidnapping Lisa Irwin

[tehcloser]

If you choose to ignore the science then there is nothing else that can be said. But seriously, take some time and look it up unless you are content to believe everything you read on a message board. I know not everyone can get their hands on peer-reviewed journals, but even wikipedia will usually cite their sources.

Ayup....I would recommend doing just that. :innocent: SARX and Oriah have been doing this for years by the way...they know of what they speak.

 

[MissFine]

I think what's even sadder is that there are missing, abused, & murdered children for us to be angry over.

If parents took care of their children properly, then on the very rare occasions that a child is actually kidnapped by a random criminal, many of us might be more sympathetic.

As it stands, this happens so frequently that we are understandably frustrated and angry.

Not to mention the many who get away with criminal actions against their child make us blind with fury at times. I wouldn't expect anything less. JMO.

It sure seems like we hear about abused and murdered children more often than in past years. All of these cases are beyond sad. I agree about parents taking care of their children properly.

If Deborah wasn't drunk (again her own words) that night, Lisa likely would be here.

 

[Karmaa]

I just don't understand why we haven't got millions of holes everywhere that LE dug up trying to find dead bodies since cadaver dogs must hit on pretty much everything. If they hit on traces of vomit, blood, skin cells, urine, etc. I can guarantee you several hits in each room of my house. I have three children, one of whom is potty training right now, and who have vomited more than I would have liked.

Cadaverine is not in blood or skin cells. It is in vomit, urine, semen, and female sexual secretions when there is a common infection.

The main reasons that holes are not everywhere is because there is no body there. Does that make sense? Normally when a cadaver dog is used, LE is looking for a body. If there is no body there, they move on. In this case, they were looking for a CLUE (or probable cause). They paid attention to the "hit" because they needed it. But they could see that there was no body there.

 

[yllek]

Cazzie,
What an easy question to answer-who was outside and inside the house with you the night BL disappeared?

It appears DB is afraid to answer the question. moo

This is the biggest roadblock to making progress in the investigation, imo.

"We need them to sit down apart from each other, with detectives, and answer the tough questions detectives have for them concerning what they may or may not know about anything, who came and went [the night Lisa disappeared]," Young told ABC News. "There's a whole list of things that they may know."

Read On ABC News Radio: http://abcnewsradioonline.com/national-news/tag/lisa-irwin#ixzz1eB2n75JS

 

[iluvmua]

omg - it's not like she's been missing & presumed deceased for years - I'm usually pretty lenient on parent's behaviour & what comes out of their mouths but those comments really raise my hackles

I'm sure everyday has gotten better for them because LE has not arrested nor charged them with anything.

They know damn well what happened to BL, They just don't want her found because that means LIP for them.

 

[Donjeta]

Cadaverine is not in blood or skin cells. It is in vomit, urine, semen, and female sexual secretions when there is a common infection.

The main reasons that holes are not everywhere is because there is no body there. Does that make sense? Normally when a cadaver dog is used, LE is looking for a body. If there is no body there, they move on. In this case, they were looking for a CLUE (or probable cause). They paid attention to the "hit" because they needed it. But they could see that there was no body there.

But there is no clue and no probable cause either if the dog can't tell you if it was vomit or semen he hit on or a dead body. There must be traces of semen in practically every bedroom with a fertile male living in it. So I don't see why a judge would consider a dog that possibly hit on semen as probable cause. The dog could have gone to any of the neighboring houses and got the exact same result. It's useless if it can't distinguish between things that are in every house such as traces from bodily fluids that come from living people such as female sexual secretions and those that aren't, such as traces of dead persons.

I don't know anything about it but I can tell the difference between the smell of vomit and the smell of semen and my nose is nowhere near as accurate as a dog's. I'm thinking there might be something more to the smell distinction than just the two compounds.

 

[MissFine]

Cadaverine is not in blood or skin cells. It is in vomit, urine, semen, and female sexual secretions when there is a common infection.

The main reasons that holes are not everywhere is because there is no body there. Does that make sense? Normally when a cadaver dog is used, LE is looking for a body. If there is no body there, they move on. In this case, they were looking for a CLUE (or probable cause). They paid attention to the "hit" because they needed it. But they could see that there was no body there.

Not true .

 

[iluvmua]

Cadaverine is not in blood or skin cells. It is in vomit, urine, semen, and female sexual secretions when there is a common infection.

The main reasons that holes are not everywhere is because there is no body there. Does that make sense? Normally when a cadaver dog is used, LE is looking for a body. If there is no body there, they move on. In this case, they were looking for a CLUE (or probable cause). They paid attention to the "hit" because they needed it. But they could see that there was no body there.

Remember when a CD "hit" on the Anthony's back yard?, it was because Caylee was buried there or died there, turns out she was dug up and moved somewhere else.

I bet it's the same with BL, She possibly died at that spot in the bedroom. That's the reason for the Hit by the CD. A dead body was there at one time.

 

[Sherbie]

This is the biggest roadblock to making progress in the investigation, imo.

"We need them to sit down apart from each other, with detectives, and answer the tough questions detectives have for them concerning what they may or may not know about anything, who came and went [the night Lisa disappeared]," Young told ABC News. "There's a whole list of things that they may know."

Read On ABC News Radio: http://abcnewsradioonline.com/national-news/tag/lisa-irwin#ixzz1eB2n75JS

That's just the thing - LE has gathered a lot of info in the past weeks. Maybe they need to ask them about someone on surveillance footage from a week before Lisa went missing, or ask about other things that may seem random and unrelated to the parents, but the answers to which might help pull things together.

I just can't get over the "there's nothing else the parents can tell LE" mindset. They have no way to know that. A tiny detail that hasn't occurred to them but that might come up in questioning/conversation might be THE thing that helps find Lisa. That's why I feel so strongly that, despite the parents' right not to undergo any further questioning, for their baby's sake, they really must.

 

[iluvmua]

That's just the thing - LE has gathered a lot of info in the past weeks. Maybe they need to ask them about someone they saw on surveillance footage from a week before Lisa went missing, or ask about other things that may seem random and unrelated to the parents, but the answers to which might help pull things together.

I just can't get over the "there's nothing else the parents can tell LE" mindset. They have no way to know that. A tiny detail that hasn't occurred to them but that might come up in questioning/conversation might be THE thing that helps find Lisa. That's why I feel so strongly that, despite the parents' right not to undergo any further questioning, for their baby's sake, they really must.

Truth is, DB & JI don't want to find Lisa or help find Lisa the same way Casey didn't want to help find Caylee. She knew she was dead, It's the same with DB & JI, they know Lisa is dead.

That the only logical answer I can come up with that makes sense.

 

[Sherbie]

Truth is, DB & JI don't want to find Lisa or help find Lisa the same way Casey didn't want to help find Caylee. She knew she was dead, It's the same with DB & JI, they know Lisa is dead.

That the only logical answer I can come up with that makes sense.

That could be it, iluvmua, but it could also be that their attorneys have advised them to take this course and convinced them somehow that it's best for both them and for Lisa. And it is best for the parents in a legal sense (the less you say, the less that can be used against you in any future case, even if you're innocent). But for Lisa...it's my opinion that this advice is definitely not in her best interests whatsoever.

 

[iluvmua]

That could be it, iluvmua, but it could also be that their attorneys have advised them to take this course and convinced them somehow that it's best for both them and for Lisa. And it is best for the parents in a legal sense (the less you say, the less that can be used against you in any future case, even if you're innocent). But for Lisa...it's my opinion that this advice is definitely not in her best interests whatsoever.

So why would their Attorneys not want them talking to LE?

 

[cityslick]

Truth is, DB & JI don't want to find Lisa or help find Lisa the same way Casey didn't want to help find Caylee. She knew she was dead, It's the same with DB & JI, they know Lisa is dead.

That the only logical answer I can come up with that makes sense.

I can see that theoretically with one parent, but not both. I just have a hard time grasping how both parents would be conspiring to cover up the murder of their own daughter, especially since JI wasn't a part of it (he was at work).

 

[cityslick]

So why would their Attorneys not want them talking to LE?

They have been talking to LE, just not under specific conditions.

 

[Sherbie]

So why would their Attorneys not want them talking to LE?

Well, for one thing, innocent people can make mistakes, misremember, unintentionally incriminate themselves. It does happen. But I would think so long as an attorney is present with each of the parents during their separate or combined interviews, that risk would be minimal.

Then, of course, there's the other reason.

 

[Sherbie]

They have been talking to LE, just not under specific conditions.

Do you mean actually talking directly to LE or via questions and answers passed through their attorney? Thanks! (My MIL visited this past week and I haven't been able to keep up very well. Sorry if I missed a link or conversation about that.)

 

[AngelWings444]

That's not what she claims. She even showed the reporter how she saw the man through the blinds on her window.

Here is the article from her first interview. She said her husband saw a man carry a baby. She asked not to be named and her husband refused to go on camera. Her story has since changed that SHE saw the man herself. I have always wondered why her husband stood over a car with his back to the came, kind of bent over and refused to go on camera. :waitasec: Maybe he is just camera shy. :innocent:

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...d-saw-man-carrying-baby-wearing-only-a-diaper

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - A woman who lives in the area where police believe a 10-month-old child was abducted said her husband saw a man carrying a baby early Tuesday morning, but didn’t think anything of it.
A neighbor, who later asked NBC Action News that she not be named, said her husband was coming home around 12 a.m. Tuesday when he saw the man carrying a baby wearing only a diaper.
“He seen the guy act like he was going to go into a residence,” she said, “but then my husband drove off so we’re thinking that maybe he was just doing that so that my husband would leave.”
The woman said her husband saw the man walking on a street perpendicular to North Lister, where Lisa Irwin lives with her parents and brothers.

 

[Sparklin]

Long ago I came to the conclusion that Defense Attorneys will do and say absolutely anything to deflect from their client. And, I mean anything! They have to be accomplished liars and have no ethics, scruples or a conscience at all in order to do what they are willing to do. Period. If there was any merit to this story it would have gone to LE, not the defense attorneys for the parents. Unless LE makes a statement I don't believe a word that this attorney states.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/16077691/picerno-witness-claims-handyman-paid-300-for-kidnapping

Kansas City police say they have interviewed Tanko about Lisa's disappearance but said they have "moved on" from him. They have not cleared him or anyone as a suspect in the disappearance of the baby in case new evidence warrants a review.

When asked about Picerno's comments Friday, Capt. Steve Young told KCTV5 in an email, "We are following up on everything involving Jersey and all other leads.

 

[cityslick]

Do you mean actually talking directly to LE or via questions and answers passed through their attorney? Thanks! (My MIL visited this past week and I haven't been able to keep up very well. Sorry if I missed a link or conversation about that.)

Nothing from LE has indicated that they haven't been in communication with the parents. They have specified they would like to get them seperate, but Young wouldn't go far to say they've been uncooperative (which I take to mean, not talk to LE at all).

 

[MissJames]

They are supposed to be used to FIND dead people. If a dead person is found, the dog's job is done, and it makes no difference if cadaverine came from vomit or simply death. Right?

What is happening here is different. Some people are trying to say that a HRD hit MUST mean that a dead body was present. It doesn't work that way.

YES- all dead bodies give off cadaverine and putrescine, but NO - not all cadaverine and putrescine hiots mean there was a dead body there.

Of course LE should use dogs as a tool, the same as any of their other tools. And if the dog leads to a dead body, great! But a hit is not the same as a body.

I <snipped> and bolded the Professional and Verified Posters post for space.
Hope it helps.

*************************************************************
Thread: Professional and Verified Posters

JBean JBean is offline
WS Adminoderator

Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dana Point,CA
Posts: 14,979
Professional and Verified Posters
OK, maybe not professional posters, but posters that are professionals Although a lot of you probably are professional posters by this time.

We are lucky enough to have posters from all walks of life with a broad spectrum of expertise and/or some may have special inside knowledge about a case.This is all extremely valuable information for the forum.

But,we like to make sure that anyone posting as a professional in a specific area truly is what/who they claim to be. This is not a new rule and has always been the case. But it seems unclear to some and I wanted to clarify it.


This thread is to reference posters that are posting as experts in certain areas, such as law ,psychology,LE, and we even have a resident chemist. This also applies to those that claim to be insiders to a case.

Basically if any information from a particular poster is to be given more weight based on the fact that they claim to have special knowledge in any one area, we need to confirm it for the posting membership.

We ask that posters that are posting with expertise in a specific area contact Tricia so she can confirm their credentials. This is 100% voluntary and no one is ever required to reveal their true identity unless they want to post as an expert. Please know that Tricia does not reveal ANYONE'S identity if you should choose to be confirmed by her.

We just want to make sure that if posters rely on information posted by someone with special training, that they do actually have that training.
if someone posts with "expertise", and they are not on this list, do not assume they are an expert, but rather use your own judgement as to how much weight you would like to give it.

The following are current members in good standing that have been authenticated by Tricia and are free to post professionally or as an insider to a case:

K9 SAR & Police
SAR management
justtoseeyousmile
k9snoop
Oriah
Sarx
K-9 Chaser is a verified SAR dog handler
indepmo is a verified SAR


DogMom2JoeAndWillie
Criminal Justice
Sarx


Animal Search and Rescue
Sarx
Oriah
JustToSeeYouSmile

Lisa Irwin case
In Da Middle has been verified as a local
makinwaffles is a verified local
indepmo is a verified local



If you would like to add youself as an expert in a certain field or an insider to a case, please contact Tricia.

If you do not wish to be identified as an expert in a certain area, we only ask that you refrain from answering questions that are specifically directed to those that have been verified as specialist in their area.

If a member posts with "expertise" please check to make sure they are on this list. If not, please do not take their post as professional information, but rather just as another opinion ;much as you would with any member of the general posting membership.
__________________
In most investigations,the clean get cleaner and the dirty get dirtier.
Last edited by imamaze; 11-10-2011 at 11:03 PM. Reason: updated
Thanks