Is Casey Anthony Possibly Innocent?

[LEFT-COASTER]

im a daily reader seldom poster.. as it takes most of my time just to catch up especially with the trial getting near and all the hearings and jury selection.

This case is so complex simply and partly because of all ica's crazy behavior and lies.
I will start out by saying.. I do not believe ica is innocent, to many things point to her and to her alone causing caylees death.

I think if you took each piece of this puzzle someone could explain it away as to perhaps not being ica that did it.. for example.. if it was just the chloroform searches.. ok maybe someone else did them.. or was an innocent search.. but put that together with the chloroform in the trunk.. the decomp smell and the hair with the death band it all combines to point to ica.. she was the one with the car till i belive the smell got to much for her and she left it behind. I think she is a very impulsive and lived moment to moment..
I personally think that the chloroform was meant for her parents.. that she was gonna somehow knock them out and do away with them.. .(perhaps break their necks? or use some other household weapon)

I am not sure if i think that she planned to kill caylee but i know in my heart that she did do it.. Its not a hunch i dont belive. its looking at all the puzzle pieces and coming to the only *reasonable conclusion* But in seeing her totally out of control . i can imagine her doing it on purpose. In a fit of anger and not thinking about what was gonna happen next.

I think she was gonna try to go to calif to see her buddy there.. I think what she was gonna tell him was that she was leaving caylee with her parents and making a new life to bring caylee out later. I think once out there she would have just pretended to her mom and dad that caylee was with her and all was good but she wasnt coming back..
I think her obsession with TL got in the way and she kept putting off leaving.. Plus the calif guy didnt offer to send her money for ticket so how would she get there..
I think that she never thought she wouold get caught and that by the time the body was found.. her mom and dad would think that she and caylee were in calif..and no one would think it was her.
The problem comes in that some people want it to be proved beyond any doubt. (this is why the phil spector trial was a hung jury the first time.. altho he was found guilty the second trial).. I think the SA will do an excellent job of putting all the puzzle pieces together and stressing the point.. that it only has to be beyond a *reasonable doubt* and that she will be found guilty..

II think the dt thing they have some tricks up thier sleves but their smoke and mirrors will be easily seen thru.. as no matter what thier is no excuse for what ica did..
I personnnly dont care one way or the other if ica is given the dp or just lwop..
I just want her found quilty so caylee gets justice..

 

[Quiche]

I sure haven't seen anything that would indicate she was... jmo, the last time KC was innocent was when she was a very young child herself.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

From the first day this story hit the news, and the frenzy began, I have felt the state's case was questionable. For two years, I followed this case almost obsessively. When it seemed that all the evidence had been hashed and rehashed, and nothing new was really coming out, I decided it was time to step back and wait until the trial. The trial is finally going to begin.

I believe the very same thing today, that I believed on the first day. The defendant is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. All the hoopla, theatrics etc. in this case, does not change my mind. It is the states burden to prove KC's guilt of premeditated murder beyond a reasonable doubt. Unless the prosecution has more cards we have not seen, then I do not believe they have met the burden of proof. All of this post is of course my opinion.

My opinion is that Caylee's death was a tragic accident, not a case of premiditated murder in the first degree.With the trial starting very soon, I will be watching along with everyone else who wants to see justice for Caylee, and the only real justice for Caylee will be if the actual truth somehow comes out at trial. As always my entire post is my opinion only.

 

[GiantPickle]

I've been a lurker for years (before the Casey case in fact - think I found the site somewhere around the Jon Bennet thing) and only recently joined so I could talk about the trial itself. I think that the entire forum has already been dissected (and other forums elsewhere) by the junior attorneys/law students etc. If they are worth the air that they breathe, they've already been all over the net.

I would also say that this thread sure makes it a nice and tidy place for anyone assisting the DT to come over with a pot of coffee, and do some reading to find out what facts they should push and spin like h*ll to attempt to create more doubt in the jury. The things that the knowledgable people here who have lived and breathed this case for the last 3 years can't even agree upon will be the perfect things to twist and push onto a jury that will most likely not have the benefit of seeing ALL of the tiniest details in this case as we have.

So if you want to make it easy for them, keep talking. We already know they are procrastinators, how perfect that their work is already done for them in one convienient place! At least make them work for it- let them have to read 200 various threads and figure out for themselves what bits to take away.

:Bennymonkey:

 

[krimekat]

George Anthony
Statement to LE
July 24, 2008

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Interview Reference Guide To Finding All Interviews, Motions, Grand Jury and Trials.


GA: All I can do is ask if, if you feel that this is going in the direction that my, my heart is killing me right now to say it even if its going into my granddaughter is not, no longer alive. I'm going to handle it the best I can, but I need to be there for my wife and my, my son. We, we need to, just because its only us three left the way I'm looking at it right now. Because if there's, if we lost my granddaughter I've lost my daughter. And that's, you know how hard that's gonna be?
(skip)
LE: You haven't lost your daughter regardless of what took place, alright?
(skip)
LE: A horrible accident...
GA: Right
LE: A number of things could happen, okay?
GA: (sighs)
(skip)
LE: Let me tell you something, okay? And I tried to tell your wife this. I tried to tell you if you did go down this road it is going to, it is going to turn into a circus, okay?
GA: Yes
LE: If you noticed, neither of us have been on any talk shows and stuff. Our job is to go out here and find your granddaughter and find out what happened. And...
(skip)
LE: ...say anything about what happened, neither of us want to do that, okay? Now, in Florida we have a very uhm...
LE: liberal...
LE: ...liberal public records law, okay? We have to release certain things, okay?
GA: I understand.
LE: And all the things we can hold back, we hold back. I mean if you noticed a lot of the, a lot of the stuff that came out on well uh, evidence came out with him on the witness stand. We didn't run out in front of the TV cameras and say the car smelled like uh, you know like there's a, a dead body in it. We have never run out and said that stuff. It happened in court.
LE: (other) And, as a matter of fact I think uh, I can't remember if it was you or if it was Lee that I was talking to you about this its, its actually I think I was talking to all three of you that night. Maybe it was you two when, when your wife went into the other room is that there are things we have to keep close.
LE: Right
LE: Obviously because we're you know, we're investigating what happened. that's ultimately what we're doing is investigating what happened.
(paraphrase: LE goes on to explain that he feels for what George must be going through and how they do not want to shock George but when on the stand they must answer questions they are being directly asked. )
(skip)
LE: One of the things that in my opinion is, kind of hurting and uh, hurting our investigation somewhat and I'm thinking maybe hurting your family is Cindy going on the news and, and saying things that she knows not to be true.
GA: Yes
LE: Such as...
GA: We have discussed that...
LE: ...her courtroom test...or when she comes out of the court room and she starts making comments that we're not doing our job and all that. Again, I understand emotion is there but what's hurting, what might hurt your family is that obviously those things are not true.
(end snip)

The trial starts on Tuesday. Jose says after his opening statement we will all say "ah." :waiting:

:websleuther:

thank you for this . . . I believe that early on GA & CA knew what COULD have happened. I am not convinced they know anything. Early in the investigation GA helped LE -- even testified in front of the Grand Jury who then charge KC with the crimes she is being tried.

I agree with LE: because of their (KC, CA, LA, GA) lies, this became a circus. They already are recanting their original testimonies & changing what they remember what they said during depositions. I sure hope to see indictments come down from the SA against the As . . .

Justice for Caylee!

 

[costalpilot]

I would also say that this thread sure makes it a nice and tidy place for anyone assisting the DT to come over with a pot of coffee, and do some reading to find out what facts they should push and spin like h*ll to attempt to create more doubt in the jury. The things that the knowledgable people here who have lived and breathed this case for the last 3 years can't even agree upon will be the perfect things to twist and push onto a jury that will most likely not have the benefit of seeing ALL of the tiniest details in this case as we have.

So if you want to make it easy for them, keep talking. We already know they are procrastinators, how perfect that their work is already done for them in one convienient place! At least make them work for it- let them have to read 200 various threads and figure out for themselves what bits to take away.

:Bennymonkey:

true except that all the talk in the world cannot change the facts

which will never go away

and which the state of florida will never give up on

shes going down, or staying down, as it were,

no matter who says what

 

[Wishbone]

This is what I have been waiting for!! There is so much damning evidence as it stands, but we are about to see the SA bring out the big guns!


SNIPPED
LE: If you noticed, neither of us have been on any talk shows and stuff. Our job is to go out here and find your granddaughter and find out what happened. And...
(skip)
LE: ...say anything about what happened, neither of us want to do that, okay? Now, in Florida we have a very uhm...
LE: liberal...
LE: ...liberal public records law, okay? We have to release certain things, okay?
GA: I understand.
LE: And all the things we can hold back, we hold back.

“AND ALL THE THINGS WE CAN HOLD BACK, WE HOLD BACK”

 

[krimekat]

This is what I have been waiting for!! There is so much damning evidence as it stands, but we are about to see the SA bring out the big guns!

“AND ALL THE THINGS WE CAN HOLD BACK, WE HOLD BACK”

I cannot WAIT for this!!! :floorlaugh:

 

[costalpilot]

With respect, I think you have that backwards...

CA said to ICA, "I don't know what your involvement is, sweetheart"

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,392201,00.html

at that point. had it been my daughter, I would not have used the word "sweetheart"

therein lies much of the problem

ica was always "sweetheart"

no matter what she did

(even if she killed her daughter)

allegedly

 

[Harmony 2]

When I read that Casey could possibly be innocent due to a drowning accident I always think of this story:

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/35820985/ns/today-good_news/t/toddler-ok-after-being-pronounced-doa/

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Who does us refer to, are you posting on behalf of a group? This is the first WS thread I have seen that seeks to restrict comments and encourages those of a like mind to come and have a cozy chat about KC being innocent....any non believers are not welcome. This doesn't seem open or honest to me....sounds more like the defense scouting ideas. JMO

With respect, try posting on any thread the idea other than KC is guilty and the lowest of all lows on earth. One is alone for the most part (which is okay I guess) but not able to express yourself and get any honest feedback - what I mean is, there is no discussion other than to tell you you're wrong.

So why can't there be a thread excluding (not literally) those who have their minds totally made up? Just like an ignore button exists, why not simply ignore this thread?
I haven't even gotton through the first page yet and the posts are contrary to what PAX asked for the thread to be.
Let the evidence stand on it's own, what's everyone afraid of?

 

[strach304]

Before the body was found, I thought that Caylee had diead in some tragic accident as the result of KC's negligence. I've always had a hard time believing that KC, as undereducated as she is, possesses the ability to successfully manufacture chloroform. I think that her internet searches for "how to make chloroform" are probably a result of her seeing that stupid cartoon on Ricardo's myspace, "Win her over with chloroform," and that she was unfamiliar with the term and simply googled it to get the joke. Under circumstances of accidental death due to negligence, she would certainly be guilty, but of a far lesser charge. But when the body was discovered with the duct tape, that seemed to shoot down that theory once and for all. The duct tape - to me - implies both intent to kill and premeditation. I don't see any way around that with the placement of the duct tape, sadly.

How to make it implies to me she wanted to possess it not just inquire about it. It shows some knowledge that it wasn't obtainable through legal purchase. The duct tape shows me it could have been used to hold a soaked cloth in place. Chloroform only lasts 15 mins. ICA's intelligence or lack of may be key to show that she did not successfully make it so to speak nor did she realize the cloth fastened by tape, a child locked in a suffocating trunk could not breathe.

 

[LEFT-COASTER]

one more thing.. .. and i know this has been said.. but i felt the need to say it too..lol
(im just that way sometimes)..
I dont believe The state does not have to prove premeditated murder..
1st degree murder also includes..


1782.04 Murder.--
(1)(a) The unlawful killing of a human being:
1. When perpetrated from a premeditated design to effect the death of the person killed or any human being;
2. When committed by a person engaged in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any:
a. Trafficking offense prohibited by s. 893.135(1),
b. Arson,
c. Sexual battery,
d. Robbery,
e. Burglary,
f. Kidnapping,
g. Escape,
h. Aggravated child abuse,
i. Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult,
j. Aircraft piracy,
k. Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb,
l. Carjacking,
m. Home-invasion robbery,
n. Aggravated stalking,
o. Murder of another human being,
p. Resisting an officer with violence to his or her person,
q. Felony that is an act of terrorism or is in furtherance of an act of terrorism; or
3. Which resulted from the unlawful distribution of any substance controlled under s. 893.03(1), cocaine as described in s. 893.03(2)(a)4., or opium or any synthetic or natural salt, compound, derivative, or preparation of opium by a person 18 years of age or older, when such drug is proven to be the proximate cause of the death of the user,

 

[Woe.be.gone]

It depends on how she died, I've considered the possibility the duct tape may have been part of the body disposal not the actual homicide.

Yes this is what I'm unsure of. Why KC would go to such great lengths to coverup what might have been a lesser evil is what I would need to understand - there is something strange and believe there are others who know what actually happened.

 

[LCoastMom]

I don't want to derail this thread but one thing that bothers me is that when we have children die from neglect in FL, we rarely see a parent or caregiver charged with murder and they definitely don't face LWOP. For example, children left in a hot car by a parent, children who wander out to the pool, etc. It may be what the law says but I haven't seen very many cases where the parent is charged with 1st degree murder. I am interested to see how the SA proves that the charges are correct in this case.

I have yet to see a child found dead in a car or swimming pool, wrapped in duct tape - where the parent was not charged with murder.

The baby may not have been dead yet, CA may have thought she was just asleep in car/chloroformed, she may not have discovered till the next day or several days after/dumped the car.

The idea that Caylee could be wrapped in duct tape, stashed in the trunk - alive (aside from 3 pieces of duct tape across a toddlers nose and mouth is not consistent with life) is just as horrific to me as believing ICA had just murdered her child - tossed her in the trunk and headed out for more ME time.

 

[LCoastMom]

Re - Is Casey Anthony Possibly Innocent?

All indications point to no.

 

[jon_burrows]

Snipped for space and BBM.

Interesting thought here about Casey not expecting her daughter's body to be found. Just last night, in reading another post, it popped into my mind that perhaps Casey did expect and did want the body found.

I think the lies about the Nanny taking her daughter and the unusual wrapping and the amount of the tape around the child's head ties in with an attempted proof of kidnapping - what Casey was claiming happened to her daughter.

She claims the child was taken, she does her best and goes out of her way to make officials believe in the fictional babysitter: She gives a name and address and even builds a background and personality for the fake babysitter. Besides telling everyone who inquires about Caylee during the 31 days that her daughter is with "the Nanny."

It would seem to me that having the remains found with evidence of the body being bound with tape, in Casey's mind, shows a kidnapping did occur.

However, the big problem for Casey is that she didn't go far enough in realizing that all she was telling them about her fictional Nanny could be proven false. IMO Casey believed LE would buy her story, everyone else had in her past when she needed to lie. Especially her own family.

In summary I am now leaning toward the fact, although Casey took steps to hide the body, she did expect her daugher's remains to be found and laid her money on the fact that the appearance of the tape surrounding the head would prove a kidnapping.
jmo

I don't think kidnapped children are duct taped. It's usually adults. In fact, I can't think of any case where a child was kidnapped then duct taped. I think it is exactly what it looks like---the murder weapon.

ICA spent time in some unusual places (for her) in heavily wooded areas near the airport. I believe she was going to dump the body there originally but for whatever reason got scared and returned to her familiar surroundings.

Judging by how badly the defense wanted the video of her reaction of them finding the body out, she thought she was home free and they would never find her.

She also didn't act distraught in any way during those 31 days, actually quite the opposite. I think she was making up lies on the fly with Lee once he got it thru her thick skull that the the police were coming and she was going to have to bring them to Caylee. I think Casey was arrogant (or stupid) enough to think she could tell LE Caylee was fine and with the nanny and they would just go away and leave her alone.

IMO

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Finished reading page 1 - it's going to take awhile to get through this thread.

While I do, someone explain these factors ~

A text from CA to KC saying that they have a huge problem due to the Pontiac being towed. (indicating a united front)

A question from CA to KC asking 'why didn't she pick up the car?' (suggesting a plan gone wrong)

GA being so specific regarding what KC and Caylee were wearing on June 9 - oops, I mean June 16, 2008. This he claimed on July 16. I find GA's memory hard to fathom, in that, there was no way for him to know that would be the last day he'd ever see Caylee again.

 

[strach304]

None of these alternative theories makes any sense. It is very clear that CA and GA loved Caylee very much, with all the photos and videos we have seen. Now, add to this the anguished cry of a grandmother looking for her absent precious granddaughter in Cindy's myspace post. This does not add up, and its clear to me that CA and GA had no idea what truly happened, prior to July 15th.

Jose is the true villain here. He raced in to their home, shut ICA up immediately, and told Cindy to save Casey, she must start "spinning" ASAP. Cindy jumped on that train quickly because she did indeed fear she would "loose another one". The stories and erratic behavior came after that. Jose, in the meantime was instrumental in separating ICA from her parents as much as possible.. keeping the truth tucked away for his starring moment (Tuesday). There can be no other guilty party in the murder of Caylee.

I personally will not be guilty of entertaining any conspiracy theories involving GA, CA or LA to assist ICA. The whole reason some believe it is because of the lies and covering up CA and GA have done for ICA and they think their motivation is personal protection of themselves. I think it's really as clear as day. They want to believe it was an accident and she doesn't deserve the DP. As parents I can understand that. I don't think there were any demands made on Casey prior to Caylee's birth. Then of course as CA saw ICA just getting worse and worse she wanted to do something and knew there were real problems. What to do? A real dilemma for a mother and GMA. There was some dysfunction before Caylee but I believe the majority came after Caylee's birth and caused by ICA. We can choose not to believe Rick and SP but I have no reason not to. Then there is LA, Annie, MH, Amy, RP, JG, etc. the list goes on and on.

 

[Marple]

Do you think that IF it was a simple accident, that she should get the same penalty as a mom who called 911 when her child drowned?

No and frankly I don't even understand why you're asking me such an outrageous question since I didn't say it was a "simple accident". I was simply commenting that child neglect resulting in death doesn't always equal 1st degree charges.