Is Caylee Already Scared Here?

[ComputerGeek]

This child was being neglected and abused for several weeks before her death, when Casey had her in her sole custody. I have no doubt there was a vibe of confusion and unhappiness there. I just don't see how the grieving GM allowed this to go on. I would have just taken her and kept her and told KC to go get the cops if she wanted and we will see what I can do. I doubt KC would have called the authorities at that point. But I guess that was the problem in that family, KC told them what to do.

JMO but....
I wasn't going to comment on this and just let it go for what it's worth, but your first sentence is crossing a line. How would you know this?

 

[Meagain]

At the start of the video, she's is breathing heavy/fast.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

JMO but....
I wasn't going to comment on this and just let it go for what it's worth, but your first sentence is crossing a line. How would you know this?

I don't know how they know, but in my opinion any mother who would take her child to parties where there was drinking and drugs like she did would be considered abusive by me. There is no telling what that child had been exposed in her short life. I find it appalling and very neglectful to expose a child to such perversion.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

Watch how long her eyes go without blinking. And how big they are. The children I've seen sleepy - close their eyes, act different.

I still say she's either affected by something (wearing off a drug?) or scared. She looks miserable. But not sleepy for sure.

She sure does not look sleepy to me either.

 

[ComputerGeek]

I don't know how they know, but in my opinion any mother who would take her child to parties where there was drinking and drugs like she did would be considered abusive by me. There is no telling what that child had been exposed in her short life. I find it appalling and very neglectful to expose a child to such perversion.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. None of us were there so can you say you really know?

 

[LaLaw2000]

I would really like to know when the pic of little Caylee was taken of her in the swimsuit on the walkway at home. She looks so very hot and her smile was very forced looking. I cannot get that pic out of my mind. I would not be surprised to find that it might be one of the last pics taken of her. She looks as if she had been scolded and thinks she is in trouble and yet told to smile.

Her little swimsuit in the pic is the one that has yellow on it I believe. I do not have it saved, but I have seen it many times and even on Nancy Grace.

 

[metalcrystal]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. None of us were there so can you say you really know?

I am basing my opinion on the police interviews of her friends who WERE present. The incidents they describe while KC was keeping her daughter away from her home are in my opinion abuse and neglect. 2 yr. olds shouldn't be present at adult gatherings where there are drugs or alcohol, period. Sleeping in bed with her mom's new BF?
And that's all documented. Now we are hearing about car trunks and chloroform. Children who are well taken care of don't end up dead in their mothers trunk. if it makes you feel better, that is JMO.

 

[msinformed]

I disagree and there have been quite a few people in agreement with me. You're entitled to your opinion and I respect that, but IMO she was definitely apprehensive about something. You can see it in her eyes.

I Agree.

My thought is that since we now know CA "runs the show," and is obviously controlling, I wonder if Caylee was "made" to sit w/ her ggp even though she was fearful, because THAT'S what CA wanted.

I believe the child was not only abused/neglected routinely by KC, but, due to her controlling personality - Caylee "feared" CA, "knew" she had to "mind her," or suffer her wrath (and, I do not mean physically, necessarily).

Those eyes are haunting, fearful, yet "knowing"..... she "had" to do what she had been told to do, just like the "kiss & hug."

That baby in no way, IMO, looked comfortable, secure, happy.

Just breaks my heart.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. None of us were there so can you say you really know?

I read the documents. I saw the pictures of her at the Ovieda house where they had the party that evening. Her friends all say she brought her to parties and put her on the sofa.

Sick - in my opinion and VERY abusive to a small mind like that. What mother would put a 2 year old girl child in the bed with her and her boyfriend? I would have reported her to children's services if she brought her to parties I attended where there was drinking and who knows what else she saw. I am sure a lot of her friends NOW WISH they had reported it to Children's abuse line so she could still be alive.

 

[Boston]

I haven't seen the entire video, but I'm told he is singing "You Are My Sunshine" to her. She looks normal to me, just very comfortable and maybe tired. A nursing/retirement home is a little scary to little kids, with all the old people trying to get their attention. I used to take my youngest there to see my grandmother when he was a baby, up until he was about 3. Every old woman wanted to hold him and every old man wanted to tickle him or give him a quarter or a dollar, even. He was shy and didn't want to be held. Caylee doesn't seem scared to me at all.

I agree,
Caylee seemed to me to be relaxed & lost in her own little world - listening to the song & watching all the other adults who were watching her

Also,
I'm pretty sure that he was singing "You Are My Sunshine" & she gave him a kiss on the cheek when he finished singing

 

[magic-cat]

NO! Others have already proposed that scenario and overwhelmingly the opinion is that she is NOT "scared" or "traumatized." Possibly tired. If she was "scared" or "traumatized" would she have hugged and kissed him?

Most definitely she would have done exactly that. The first 5 years of my life were extremely traumatic, and I recall one particularly nasty "fight" that my egg donor and my father got into, and it was HORRIBLE. She slapped him with an extension chord right across his face and then went after him to attack him further. He restrained her and held her down and did not offer to hit her back or harm her. After she was "calm" he let go and went into the bedroom, and locked the door and I will be danged if she did not go outside and get an AX and chopped straight through that door trying to get in there to kill him I guess. He climbed out the window and came back in through the door behind her and restrained her again. At THIS point I took off into another bedroom and wedged myself in between a wardrobe and the wall and was scared half to death. It was here that my father found me, and when he reached out his arms and said come here to daddy, you can bet your bottom dollar that the comfort afforded in those arms meant everything to me at that moment.

I am wondering if the "fight" that was heard by the neighbors did not begin on Saturday and continue into Sunday, and poor little Caylee was seeing and hearing all of that-because by the look on her face in her Great Grandpa's arms, to me, she has seen something that gave her a "haunted" look, and I am certain that she had already been exposed to some kind of "scene" at that point. But who knows? CINDY!:furious:

 

[magic-cat]

I will tell you this too. An abusive parent is not so easy so easy to spot from the outside looking in, and even getting an abused child to admit to it takes almost an act of God. My abusive parent was very cunning and clever in HER abuses, and did not routinely do them in front of outsiders-just the immediate family got to see the brunt of it. Here is an example of what type of abuse I am talking about that is invisible and yet very damaging.

My egg donor had a best friend and she and her best friend liked to go to a store called "Hills". It was a big day if they were going to Hills. One day, they decided to take me with them. Now, mind you, Hills was about an hour away from where we lived, so it was quite the long drive for a 4 year old, as I was at that time. Once we got there, I told them that I had to "pee" really bad. And do you know what happened? My egg donor told me that was just too bad, and to stay in the car while they went inside shopping. They then proceeded to roll up the windows and left me in the car, alone, age 4, in desperate need of a bathroom. Do you know that I never told my dad about that? I never told my brothers or my sisters. I never told anyone until years later after I was a grown woman. But I remembered it all of my life and recall it vividly still.

It is very possible for Casey to have "been someone else" when she was alone with Caylee than the person that she displayed to the rest of the world, and it is HIGHLY possible that Caylee was even afraid of her, but did not know how to voice it or express it, nor whom to tell it unto. I am almost 100% certain that Casey DID abuse Caylee, in the "invisible" ways that were not obvious to outsiders, but which would have made a grave impression on sweet little Caylee...The look on her face and in her eyes in the picture where she is in her car seat when she is holding her doll,"mama", says it all to me-that fearful apprehensive look says it all. Casey had an evil side, and Caylee knew it intimately. She may not have hit her or hurt her physically, but there are many forms of abuse.

 

[KatrinaLee73]

Watch how long her eyes go without blinking. And how big they are. The children I've seen sleepy - close their eyes, act different.

I still say she's either affected by something (wearing off a drug?) or scared. She looks miserable. But not sleepy for sure.

IMO, that baby is uncomfortable about something. We might never know exactly...but Her eyes remind me of how my daughter was at age 5 after having dental work done with sedation. Her actions seem the same also. Kind of weary and leary of people and her surroundings. Just an observation and some kind of age wise comparison.

And whoever it was that mentioned the fact that the baby wouldn't of kissed and hugged the ggp if they were scared? I beg to differ. The baby was doing as she was told or requested by G-ma.

 

[leophoenix]

Looking at this reminds me of how when my brother got visitation with his daughter after a nasty divorce she acted very strange. She would throw tantrums and scream and act like she was afraid just like this.

Turns out her mom had been telling her things like, "They've come to steal you away from me!" "I'll never see you again because they want to kill me!" She was about the same age as Caylee and we didn't find out about it till she could articulate better and my brother's lawyer threatened to take custody away from her completely if she didn't stop this stupid behavior.

We didn't realize this till she was five or so and sat down with my brother and asked him not to kill her mommy. My brother's ex is still a piece of work upon bringing my niece to see my father undergoing heart surgery. She said to me, "Well if your dad dies who gets his property?"

 

[icherish]

IMO, that baby is uncomfortable about something. We might never know exactly...but Her eyes remind me of how my daughter was at age 5 after having dental work done with sedation. Her actions seem the same also. Kind of weary and leary of people and her surroundings. Just an observation and some kind of age wise comparison.

And whoever it was that mentioned the fact that the baby wouldn't of kissed and hugged the ggp if they were scared? I beg to differ. The baby was doing as she was told or requested by G-ma.

It was a gentle reminder to kiss and hug Papa. A scared child who didn't want to would resist somehow...certainly wouldn't do it as readily as Caylee did. Years of experience raising my own children tells me that. If they didn't want to hug and kiss someone, it showed and more notably, it didn't happen...

There is plenty of video from that visit showing Caylee looking about, smiling, reading, wiggling in her chair like toddlers do, chatting and singing. An uncomfortable, scared, weary or sedated child doesn't and won't do those things. She shows concern for her "Papa" by cheerfully asking if he is tired. Sitting on her Papa's lap, listening intently as he hums. She doesn't look scared, she's listening, soothed by the vibrations. moo

Sorry, no offense intended. I just don't like to see what may well have been the last tender moments of Caylee's life made out to be anything other than what it was...an enjoyable, happy time spent with family members she loved so.

 

[Meagain]

NO! Others have already proposed that scenario and overwhelmingly the opinion is that she is NOT "scared" or "traumatized." Possibly tired. If she was "scared" or "traumatized" would she have hugged and kissed him?

Just because others have an overwhelmingly different opinion than mine doesn't mean they are right or I'm wrong. Back in the day, many people (women) thought "Ghost" was an amazingly brilliant movie too.

She hugged/kissed him because Cindy told her to many times. She was ordered to.

 

[Dr. Pennypacker]

yes she looks scared

 

[Misfit76]

"There is plenty of video from that visit showing Caylee looking about, smiling, reading, wiggling in her chair like toddlers do, chatting and singing. An uncomfortable, scared, weary or sedated child doesn't and won't do those things. She shows concern for her "Papa" by cheerfully asking if he is tired. Sitting on her Papa's lap, listening intently as he hums. She doesn't look scared, she's listening, soothed by the vibrations. moo

Sorry, no offense intended. I just don't like to see what may well have been the last tender moments of Caylee's life made out to be anything other than what it was...an enjoyable, happy time spent with family members she loved so. "

Completely agree. Ive said it before, Ill say it again, being the mom of a child around Caylee's age (and my son is extremely loved and doted upon by every member of his family) her behavior is completely NORMAL. I see the same behavior in her that I see in my son in noisy, strange places or with people he's not normally around every day. Shes happily reading, interacting, talking, being silly etc in other parts of the video. It shows brief footage of her sitting on her ggpa's lap and being attentive, listening, appreciating the moment, hes singing to her. I just dont see all this unexplained fear, and ordering around some of you are talking about. When my son departs from his grandparents we tell him to give a kiss and say bye bye, thats not ordering, its teaching your child to give affection to thier loved ones. If he doesnt want to, he wont, its his choice, but he almost always freely gives kisses and hugs when asked.

Also, some have brought up about Caylee looking upset or hitting, pulling away, in her pics. You should see my son's expressions in his carseat sometimes, kids dont like them, and they get antsy and want out, its normal. He is also going thru a stage where he has been pulling away from his daddy or trying to hit him. My husband gets his feelings hurt alot because of this and theres no explanation for it. There is no abuse, no instilling fear, my husband has never hit, spanked, or done anything to warrant the way our son acts towards him sometimes. It happens, especially at this age, thats why its called the terrible twos, and I know from talking to other moms of kids this age they do the same thing. Dont even get me started on how my son acts when I get the camera out, he gets mad, cries, tries to grab it, etc because he wants it or just doesnt want to sit still for a pic, they are becoming independant and get frustrated alot at this age.
Its not a fair or correct assumption to say that because a child pulls away, hits at or looks grumpy that they are being mistreated.

 

[icherish]

[I[/I]

Completely agree. Ive said it before, Ill say it again, being the mom of a child around Caylee's age (and my son is extremely loved and doted upon by every member of his family) her behavior is completely NORMAL. I see the same behavior in her that I see in my son in noisy, strange places or with people he's not normally around every day. Shes happily reading, interacting, talking, being silly etc in other parts of the video. It shows brief footage of her sitting on her ggpa's lap and being attentive, listening, appreciating the moment, hes singing to her. I just dont see all this unexplained fear, and ordering around some of you are talking about. When my son departs from his grandparents we tell him to give a kiss and say bye bye, thats not ordering, its teaching your child to give affection to thier loved ones. If he doesnt want to, he wont, its his choice, but he almost always freely gives kisses and hugs when asked.

Also, some have brought up about Caylee looking upset or hitting, pulling away, in her pics. You should see my son's expressions in his carseat sometimes, kids dont like them, and they get antsy and want out, its normal. He is also going thru a stage where he has been pulling away from his daddy or trying to hit him. My husband gets his feelings hurt alot because of this and theres no explanation for it. There is no abuse, no instilling fear, my husband has never hit, spanked, or done anything to warrant the way our son acts towards him sometimes. It happens, especially at this age, thats why its called the terrible twos, and I know from talking to other moms of kids this age they do the same thing. Dont even get me started on how my son acts when I get the camera out, he gets mad, cries, tries to grab it, etc because he wants it or just doesnt want to sit still for a pic, they are becoming independant and get frustrated alot at this age.
Its not a fair or correct assumption to say that because a child pulls away, hits at or looks grumpy that they are being mistreated.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[Meagain]

Sorry, no offense intended. I just don't like to see what may well have been the last tender moments of Caylee's life made out to be anything other than what it was...an enjoyable, happy time spent with family members she loved so. "

Doesn't look happy at all in that video. She looks miserable whether it be from ANY reason even if wanting to get away from him and play.