Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #6

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Maybe so but you have to bear in mind that most Londoners, of my age, will have known the threat of terror and terror attacks for many decades.
70s through 90's - IRA terror
noughties - 2020s rather than me rattle them off - am bound to miss loads- here's a list, it's worth looking at

The threat of terror attacks is still very real around the world.
JMO

Anyway, I came back to post this re Church of Saint Porphyrius reporting on NBC
You may already have seen it
and can WSers verify this is a former member of Congress?
What difference does it make if he's a U.S. politician? His point is that the partial collapse of the Church resulted in the horrific deaths of human beings seeking shelter there.

JMO
 
I couldn't watch all of this but interviewer (sorry I don't know her name... Tara ??) handled this (self censored) quite well. imo

She even says "You know no one believes that" ;)

she's great. thanks for that.

Edited to add

Also, have just found a good breakdown of that other interview which might spare others having to watch it & faster.
1 & 2 of his longer thread
 
Last edited:
Anyway, I came back to post this re Church of Saint Porphyrius reporting on NBC
You may already have seen it
and can WSers verify this is a former member of Congress?
Yes, I'm familiar with him.

Justin Amash was born on April 18, 1980, in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He is the second of three sons born to Arab Christian parents who had immigrated to the United States. His father,, is a Palestinian Christian whose family lived in Ramla until they were forcibly expelled by Israeli soldiers during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.[4] _____ and his family immigrated to the United States in 1956 when he was 16 through the sponsorship of an American pastor in Muskegon, Michigan.[4][5] Amash's mother,, is a Syrian Christian who met his father through family friends in Damascus, Syria, and the two married in 1974
 
24 min ago

Hamas claims they are working with mediators to release foreign national hostages​

From CNN's Ibrahim Dahman and Hamdi Alkhshali

Hamas issued a statement shortly after the release of two American hostages Friday, saying they are working with mediators in Egypt, Qatar and other "friendly countries"

"This commitment remains resolute as we endeavor to enact our decision to release individuals of foreign nationalities under temporary custody, as and when security circumstances permit," the statement added.


 

Red Cross helped facilitate hostage release from Gaza to Israel​

The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said they were "extremely relieved" after they helped facilitate the transfer of the US hostages from Gaza to Israel, "underscoring the real-life impact of our role as a neutral actor between the warring parties".

Is a statement, the ICRC called for the release of the rest of the hostages held by Hamas, and said they must be allowed to receive medical care while in being held.

The group also urged for humanitarian assistance for Palestinians in Gaza, saying they "cannot be kept waiting for desperately needed aid" where hospitals are on the verge of collapse and supplies of food and water are critically low.

"Every hour that passes without increased assistance means more misery and suffering."

 

'Existential moment' for Hamas - US general​


View attachment 454722
BBC NewsnightCopyright: BBC Newsnight

Retired US General David Petraeus says this is an "existential moment" for Hamas after the militant group released two US prisoners from Gaza.

Speaking to Newsnight, Petraeus - who was in charge of the US-led coalition forces during the Iraq war - says the release of the two hostages could either be a "wonderful humanitarian gesture" or a ploy by Hamas.

He adds that we may see more hostages released one after another as Hamas tries to buy time.

They know what's coming, he says, referencing the hundreds of thousands of Israeli troops stationed around the besieged enclave, prepared and capable enough to "destroy Hamas".

The retired general also praised Qatar, who helped facilitate the hostage release. Doha, which maintains ties with both Western states and the likes of Hamas and Iran, are "very, very useful" in situations like these, he says.

just re that bit in bold, do people think they might flee?

Michael Clarke on 'will Hamas fight?'... he runs through various scenarios such as an apocalyptic process to bring in Hezbollah to ' erase Israel' off map' or leave for Sinai & reconstitute later. It's around 4 mins in to clip ( Although whole interview is good)

MC used to be Sky's channel military expert or wtte
 

'Existential moment' for Hamas - US general​


View attachment 454722
BBC NewsnightCopyright: BBC Newsnight

Retired US General David Petraeus says this is an "existential moment" for Hamas after the militant group released two US prisoners from Gaza.

Speaking to Newsnight, Petraeus - who was in charge of the US-led coalition forces during the Iraq war - says the release of the two hostages could either be a "wonderful humanitarian gesture" or a ploy by Hamas.

He adds that we may see more hostages released one after another as Hamas tries to buy time.

They know what's coming, he says, referencing the hundreds of thousands of Israeli troops stationed around the besieged enclave, prepared and capable enough to "destroy Hamas".

The retired general also praised Qatar, who helped facilitate the hostage release. Doha, which maintains ties with both Western states and the likes of Hamas and Iran, are "very, very useful" in situations like these, he says.

BBM. My question for Petraeus is: why can't it be both? The cynic in me believed all hostages had been killed in order to inflict more emotional trauma on their surviving families. I'm thrilled the women have been released!

I don't believe the Hamas' goal is to "buy time" to avoid war. I think the "ploy" is for Gaza to become totally independent from Israel control.

JMO
 
9m ago

A joint statement by the US and the EU said “concerned by the deteriorating humanitarian crisis” in Gaza following a trilateral summit in Washington.

The White House released the statement after talks between the president of the European Council, Charles Michel, European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen, and the US president, Joe Biden.

We condemn in the strongest possible terms Hamas and its brutal terrorist attacks across Israel. There is no justification for terrorism. We affirm Israel’s right to defend itself against these heinous attacks, in line with international law, including international humanitarian law.

We will work closely with partners in the region to stress the importance of protecting civilians, supporting those who are trying to get to safety or provide assistance, and facilitating access to food, water, medical care, and shelter. We are concerned by the deteriorating humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

It is crucial to prevent regional escalation. We call for the immediate release of all hostages and emphasize our shared view that a two-state solution remains the viable path to lasting peace.

 

A moment of joy - but other hostages' fate still in the balance​


Paul Adams
Diplomatic correspondent

After two of the bleakest weeks, full of horror and uncertainty, this was a moment of relief – and joy.

But the photo released after Judith and Natalie Raanan finally made it to safety showed the two women looking exhausted and pale. A glimpse of the toll this appalling ordeal must have taken.

How were they released? The Gulf state of Qatar said it came about after what it called many days of continuous communication. The foreign ministry in Doha said it hoped dialogue would lead to the release of other hostages.

A clearly-delighted Joe Biden thanked Qatar and Israel for what he called "their partnership in this work".

Mark Regev, a senior advisor to Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, acknowledged that diplomacy had played a role - but said the hostages' release was also the result of Israel's military might.

The hope now is that other hostages, especially the elderly and the very young, will soon be released. But Israel's assault on the Gaza Strip has not stopped.

The fate of the remaining 201 hostages remains in the balance.

Red Cross helped facilitate hostage release from Gaza to Israel​

The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said they were "extremely relieved" after they helped facilitate the transfer of the US hostages from Gaza to Israel, "underscoring the real-life impact of our role as a neutral actor between the warring parties".

Is a statement, the ICRC called for the release of the rest of the hostages held by Hamas, and said they must be allowed to receive medical care while in being held.
The group also urged for humanitarian assistance for Palestinians in Gaza, saying they "cannot be kept waiting for desperately needed aid" where hospitals are on the verge of collapse and supplies of food and water are critically low.

"Every hour that passes without increased assistance means more misery and suffering."

 
I'm back in my trying-to-learn more mode. If anyone knows... can you tell me about Fatah?

Are they part of a larger group??

Are the Fatah active in other areas besides the West Bank? Are they "really" considered non-violent? If so, why don't they have more support from Palestinians?
 
I'm back in my trying-to-learn more mode. If anyone knows... can you tell me about Fatah?

Are they part of a larger group??

Are the Fatah active in other areas besides the West Bank? Are they "really" considered non-violent? If so, why don't they have more support from Palestinians?
I dunno but wikipedia says this on one of your questions:

'Fatah has maintained a number of militant groups since its founding. Its mainstream military branch is al-'Asifah. Fatah is generally considered to have had a strong involvement in terrorism in the past,[12][13][14][15] though unlike its rival Islamist faction Hamas, Fatah is no longer regarded as a terrorist organization by any government. Fatah used to be designated terrorist under Israeli law and was considered terrorist by the United States Department of State and United States Congress until it renounced terrorism in 1988

 
I'm back in my trying-to-learn more mode. If anyone knows... can you tell me about Fatah?

Are they part of a larger group??

Are the Fatah active in other areas besides the West Bank? Are they "really" considered non-violent? If so, why don't they have more support from Palestinians?
They're the old PLO. I guess "old" is the appropriate adjective. I think they fell out of favor after the Oslo Accords, which was a compromise with between Arafat and Rabin. Their president, Abbas is old. They say he's corrupt. I guess any group can be violent, but I don't think their terrorists.
 
3m ago
Protesters rallied across Egypt, including in Cairo, on Friday in support of Palestinian rights in Gaza.


Hundreds of people holding Palestinian flags and banners, gather to stage a demonstration in support of Palestinians in Giza, Egypt.

Hundreds of people holding Palestinian flags and banners, gather to stage a demonstration in support of Palestinians in Giza, Egypt. Photograph: Anadolu Agency/Anadolu/Getty Images


A protest in support of the Palestinian people, in the Gaza Strip, at Al Azhar mosque in Cairo, Egypt.

A protest in support of the Palestinian people, in the Gaza Strip, at Al Azhar mosque in Cairo, Egypt. Photograph: Mohamed Hossam/Getty Images


People holding Palestinian flags and banners, gather to stage a demonstration in support of Palestinians in Giza, Egypt.

People holding Palestinian flags and banners, gather to stage a demonstration in support of Palestinians in Giza, Egypt. Photograph: Anadolu Agency/Anadolu/Getty Images

 
Interesting article about the current Israeli Minister of National Security, Itamar Ben-Gvir:

“Ben-Gvir, a settler in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, has faced charges of hate speech against Arabs and was known to have a portrait in his living room of Israeli-American terrorist Baruch Goldstein, who massacred 29 Palestinian Muslim worshipers and wounded 125 others in Hebron, in the 1994 Cave of the Patriarchs massacre. He removed the portrait after he entered politics.[3] He was also previously convicted of supporting a terrorist group known as Kach, which espoused Kahanism, an extremist religious Zionist ideology.[6]

Under his leadership, the Otzma Yehudit (Jewish Power), a party which espouses Kahanism and anti-Arabism, won six seats in the 2022 Israeli legislative election, and is represented in what has been called the most right-wing and hardline government in Israel's history.[7][8][9][10] He has called for the expulsion of Arab citizens of Israel who are not loyal to Israel.[10] Ben Gvir is "widely known for his openly racist, anti-Arab views and activities".[11]”


According to the article, he also made threats against Itzhak Rabin, one week before he was assassinated.

Just for the record I am against Hamas, and against the murder of any innocent civilians.
 
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