Jacyee Dugard's Journal

[jazerelle]

She lied about who she was because she was told to. Apparently (like I said before she was coached) this coaching had been going on for some time just in case they has a unexpected visitor. She was probably told that if P and G went to jail J would loose her girls. The girls would be taken away and she would never see them. A similar tail was probably told the girls. Fear of the unknown is powerful.

And why P or N for that matter never found the diary. Well, the place was a sty (this is the nicer of my reasons) and she could simply hide it in the untouched clutter.
Or (now for the less nice reason) P didn't care at all for Jaycee. She was just an object for sex and getting kids for Nancy. He thought she was fully under his control. Never dawned on him that his slave was writing her story in a diary.
I like the bear pictures

 

[kbl8201]

ummmmmm i think telling her she'd lose her girls constitutes as a threat

 

[jazerelle]

I am sure he held those girls over her head all the time. Also I think making her let Nancy say she was the mother, P and N were doing the alienation of parent thing. Just as I am sure the reason P wants to talk to the girls is to tell them how awful Jaycee is and the reason that attorney wants to see Jaycee is to get her to say things were not so bad. She pretty much said so. Ok time to go look for what I am just taking about

 

[kbl8201]

your right jazz

 

[not_my_kids]

I think that PG bonded to her as well. You can't efficiently contol someone by beating them, that creates a sense of stability. Even consistent beatings are consistent, and the same goes for cruelty. You can only control someone, keep them broken, if they don't know what's coming next. For that reason, if PG could tell that she would only settle for freedom, he had to try it at some time. What better way to test out the situation than by taking her somewhere surrounded by LE and seeing if the conditioning is working? He could have tried to let her out on more short trips, but the test was taking her to the police station, as eventually she would have run into a member of law enforcement alone. I do think she was coached, threatened and thoroughly terrorized all over again in return for every small bit of freedom she got.

 

[Cher352]

"How can I ever tell him I want to be free," she wrote a year earlier. "Free to come and go as I please. ... Free to say I have a family. I will never cause him pain if it's in my power to prevent it. FREE."

By what we have seen so far I think her real family had become a distant dream by the time of the journal entries. I really think when she wrote this that she was referring to her daughters, wanting to be able to tell them she was their mother and be able to like like a mother instead of a sister.

 

[songline]

"How can I ever tell him I want to be free," she wrote a year earlier. "Free to come and go as I please. ... Free to say I have a family. I will never cause him pain if it's in my power to prevent it. FREE."

By what we have seen so far I think her real family had become a distant dream by the time of the journal entries. I really think when she wrote this that she was referring to her daughters, wanting to be able to tell them she was their mother and be able to like like a mother instead of a sister.

That is possible, but not probable.
Because according to what we have read here she remembered everything about her natural family. EVERYTHING...
so that means she had to think of them often...
I think "Family" to her really meant Family...all the people that were of her blood which include
her original family.

 

[kbl8201]

i dont want to speculate too much on what she meant but it's possible she meant everone......her real family, and her daughters. obviously she wasnt counting garrido as part of that .

 

[kbl8201]

I think that PG bonded to her as well. You can't efficiently contol someone by beating them, that creates a sense of stability. Even consistent beatings are consistent, and the same goes for cruelty. You can only control someone, keep them broken, if they don't know what's coming next. For that reason, if PG could tell that she would only settle for freedom, he had to try it at some time. What better way to test out the situation than by taking her somewhere surrounded by LE and seeing if the conditioning is working? He could have tried to let her out on more short trips, but the test was taking her to the police station, as eventually she would have run into a member of law enforcement alone. I do think she was coached, threatened and thoroughly terrorized all over again in return for every small bit of freedom she got.

in the parole records just released, it stated that after her inital story, they threatned to get cps to get her to talk. imo that would drive her to greater desperation to hide her identity

 

[not_my_kids]

in the parole records just released, it stated that after her inital story, they threatned to get cps to get her to talk. imo that would drive her to greater desperation to hide her identity

Maybe. Probably. I didn't say that the G's were the only one's that terrorized her.

 

[kbl8201]

i dont think 'terrorize' is a good term. at that point the parole people had no idea who she was. for all they know she could be a wanted fugitive or someone who had intentionally put her kids in garrido's way.

 

[jjenny]

"How can I ever tell him I want to be free," she wrote a year earlier. "Free to come and go as I please. ... Free to say I have a family. I will never cause him pain if it's in my power to prevent it. FREE."

By what we have seen so far I think her real family had become a distant dream by the time of the journal entries. I really think when she wrote this that she was referring to her daughters, wanting to be able to tell them she was their mother and be able to like like a mother instead of a sister.

Or she might have meant her mother and sister.

 

[songline]

Or she might have meant her mother and sister.

That is my first thought too. "FREE" was used many times

 

[LinasK]

"How can I ever tell him I want to be free," she wrote a year earlier. "Free to come and go as I please. ... Free to say I have a family. I will never cause him pain if it's in my power to prevent it. FREE."

By what we have seen so far I think her real family had become a distant dream by the time of the journal entries. I really think when she wrote this that she was referring to her daughters, wanting to be able to tell them she was their mother and be able to like like a mother instead of a sister.

I completely agree. That was my first thought too...

I think that PG bonded to her as well. You can't efficiently contol someone by beating them, that creates a sense of stability. Even consistent beatings are consistent, and the same goes for cruelty. You can only control someone, keep them broken, if they don't know what's coming next. For that reason, if PG could tell that she would only settle for freedom, he had to try it at some time. What better way to test out the situation than by taking her somewhere surrounded by LE and seeing if the conditioning is working? He could have tried to let her out on more short trips, but the test was taking her to the police station, as eventually she would have run into a member of law enforcement alone. I do think she was coached, threatened and thoroughly terrorized all over again in return for every small bit of freedom she got.

The real answer as to why he took her was also revealed in the recent docs- the parole officer ordered him to bring along everyone who lived with them (of course, Patricia wasn't there though...)

 

[Natal]

The real answer as to why he took her was also revealed in the recent docs- the parole officer ordered him to bring along everyone who lived with them (of course, Patricia wasn't there though...)

That isn't mentioned in either the parole report sheets or the memorandom Santos later wrote as far as I could see. IIRC that was claimed in a news report but it doesn't seem to be in the parole office documents. What page in the pdf files did you see that?

 

[Natal]

I am sure he held those girls over her head all the time. Also I think making her let Nancy say she was the mother, P and N were doing the alienation of parent thing. Just as I am sure the reason P wants to talk to the girls is to tell them how awful Jaycee is and the reason that attorney wants to see Jaycee is to get her to say things were not so bad. She pretty much said so. Ok time to go look for what I am just taking about

Lawyers are not allowed to coach witnesses. These particular lawyers work for the public defenders office, in other words they are civil servants, they have no incentive to risk disbarment by doing that. I imagine the reason they would like to contact her prior to trial is so that they can excercise due diligence by attempting to review the facts of the case from her point of view in order to prepare a sound defence. But, as one of them pointed out, she can decline their request. They can't rely on what their clients claim because usually that is not accurate.

 

[Natal]

I think that PG bonded to her as well. You can't efficiently contol someone by beating them, that creates a sense of stability. Even consistent beatings are consistent, and the same goes for cruelty. You can only control someone, keep them broken, if they don't know what's coming next. For that reason, if PG could tell that she would only settle for freedom, he had to try it at some time. What better way to test out the situation than by taking her somewhere surrounded by LE and seeing if the conditioning is working? He could have tried to let her out on more short trips, but the test was taking her to the police station, as eventually she would have run into a member of law enforcement alone. I do think she was coached, threatened and thoroughly terrorized all over again in return for every small bit of freedom she got.

I disagree. That sort of tactic would work for short term control, but long term control requires that everyone has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. You need to get them to buy into whatever the situation you are in. In the military this is called the "hearts and minds" approach. You can subjugate a population in the short term by bombing the hell out of them and creating uncertainy in their future so that they are controlled by fear, but that allways leads to the organization of a resistance that increases over time. The most effective tactic in the long term is to become the friends and protectors of the population being occupied, so that it becomes an us v them situation where the population being controled identifies with "us" rather than "them". You create conflict, not with the people, but with "them". I doubt that Garrido was smart enough to do this intentionally at an intellectual level, it was more of a primal instinctive thing for him, but the effect is the same.

I think this is more likely what happened in the Garrido household given the length of time this happened. I don't believe that the situation would have been sustainable in an adverserial relationship. I think if you want to get a deeper insight into the interpersonal relationships there one should think less about kooky "mind-control" theories and look more at military counterinsurgency tactics.

I find it very unlikely that taking the girls to the PO's office was a test. That would have been way too risky if there was any question of their loyalty. I think by that time Garrido trusted Jaycee and very much considered her as one of "us".

 

[songline]

I disagree. That sort of tactic would work for short term control, but long term control requires that everyone has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. You need to get them to buy into whatever the situation you are in. In the military this is called the "hearts and minds" approach. You can subjugate a population in the short term by bombing the hell out of them and creating uncertainy in their future so that they are controlled by fear, but that allways leads to the organization of a resistance that increases over time. The most effective tactic in the long term is to become the friends and protectors of the population being occupied, so that it becomes an us v them situation where the population being controled identifies with "us" rather than "them". You create conflict, not with the people, but with "them". I doubt that Garrido was smart enough to do this intentionally at an intellectual level, it was more of a primal instinctive thing for him, but the effect is the same.

I think this is more likely what happened in the Garrido household given the length of time this happened. I don't believe that the situation would have been sustainable in an adverserial relationship. I think if you want to get a deeper insight into the interpersonal relationships there one should think less about kooky "mind-control" theories and look more at military counterinsurgency tactics.

I find it very unlikely that taking the girls to the PO's office was a test. That would have been way too risky if there was any question of their loyalty. I think by that time Garrido trusted Jaycee and very much considered her as one of "us".

He was not testing the girls loyalty he had them under control, and brain washed - yes he gave
them food and shelter, but fear was never far away.
Or else instead of writing she wants to be free she would have been free.
He was testing his own arrogance - he tricked and conned the Legal System for so long, he
just wanted them to know I can F with you and I always have so there....He tested LE not the girls.

Patti Hurst robbed banks with her abductors and said she is doing it of her own mind.
After being brain washed. There is a form of bonding that happens but not of choice of survival.
and if you get to adversarial you die.
She still feared them, and was thrilled to get away from them.

But this thread is about JC's journals, and there are also entries about her journals on the
other thread so it IS a bit jumbled.

 

[Natal]

Patti Hurst robbed banks with her abductors and said she is doing it of her own mind.
After being brain washed. There is a form of bonding that happens but not of choice of survival.
and if you get to adversarial you die.

She claimed brainwashing as an excuse for her reprehensible acts so that she wouldn't have to spend the greater part of her life in prison. Fortunately the jury didn't buy it and sent to prison for 35 years, allthough her name and wealth subsequently got a lot of that reduced. If she had come from some unknown poor family no one would have questioned it and you can bet that she would have done the 35 years.

Being in a bad situation may result in you debasing yourself in order to survive, and that is understandable, but it does NOT give you licence to abandon morality. If you do that, you are responsible for your actions, no matter what else might have happened. The only exception is if someone literally holds a gun to your head, and even then you should still be held accountable for your actions, allbeit that mitigating circumstances should be taken into account when determining the consequences.

 

[kbl8201]

if someone holds a gun to your head and says 'do this or die' your responsible for your actions?
law is not a suicide pact natal