Jahi’s family wants her declared 'alive again’

[Donjeta]

Sorry, I didn't see that quote and without a link, I really don't believe it. A settlement can be for whatever amount is agreed whether the child is alive or dead. The $250,000 cap applies to any award for punitive damages at trial. If there is a settlement, there will not be a trial.

JMO

6:35 in this video.

You're welcome.

http://www.ktvu.com/videos/news/mcmath-vigil-raw-video-of-jahi-mcmaths-mothers/vCLZHH/

 

[Hiandmighty]

It's not a huge mystery I think. Adult and pediatric populations are somewhat different so there are frequently somewhat different guidelines regarding treatments and diagnoses of children and adults. The criteria have to be evidence based and something that was validated in research in an adult population may or may not work similarly in children or it might not have been even researched properly.

Jahi was determined to be brain dead based on current data and guidelines, which included exams by IIRC 6 licensed physicians.

The court agreed with the decision and Jahi was declared dead and issued a death certificate.

So, yes, based on established criteria, 6 licensed physicians determined brain death. Nothing to see here...

Poor poor Jahi. It just breaks my heart that her family refuses to let her go.

 

[MyBelle]

Right, doctors don't treat dead people. There doesn't need to be a "code of ethics" about that... It's common sense.

Doctors also don't operate on dead people. Again, common sense for the same reason insurance companies don't pay doctors to operate on dead people. Dead people are dead. We bury dead people.

Respectfully, you might hold that opinion but in reality, doctors do operate on dead people. Doctors remove organs for transplantation and an autopsy is a surgical procedure. And there is a strict code of medical ethics involved.

JMO

 

[TJL]

Respectfully, you might hold that opinion but in reality, doctors do operate on dead people. Doctors remove organs for transplantation and an autopsy is a surgical procedure. And there is a strict code of medical ethics involved.

JMO

You're just arguing semantics here. <modsnip> Organ harvesting and an autopsy are not "operations on a dead person" with the intent of saving that dead person's life, or preserving that dead person's life.

 

[Donjeta]

JMO but in my mind autopsies and organ removal are pretty much irrelevant to the question whether dead people should continue to receive medical care.

 

[SwampMama]

Sorry, I didn't see that quote and without a link, I really don't believe it. A settlement can be for whatever amount is agreed whether the child is alive or dead. The $250,000 cap applies to any award for punitive damages at trial. If there is a settlement, there will not be a trial.

JMO

Here is a link to the video of the "chump change comment" Omari starts talking about it at about 6:10 in the vidoe . The "chump change" comment happens at about 6:38 in the video
http://www.ktvu.com/videos/news/mcmath-vigil-raw-video-of-jahi-mcmaths-mothers/vCLZHH/

ETA: Donjeta beat me to it, lol!!

 

[Hiandmighty]

Exactly. Dead people do not receive medical care. There doesn't need to be a "code of ethics" regarding that.

1) Jahi is dead.

2) she has a death certificate

3) her atty can't prove anything to the contrary and withdrew his motion

4) Jahi is dead

5) she has a death certificate

 

[TJL]

Here is a link to the video of the "chump change comment" Omari starts talking about it at about 6:10 in the vidoe . The "chump change" comment happens at about 6:38 in the video
http://www.ktvu.com/videos/news/mcmath-vigil-raw-video-of-jahi-mcmaths-mothers/vCLZHH/

What's really amusing is that after Omari goes through his "carefully researched" spiel about chump change (dollar signs glazing over his pupils and all), Nailah chimes in with, "But we really don't care about the money."

...except, she's still holding her hand out for free money in the form of a crowd-source "donation" scheme. Which started out asking for $20,000 to transport the body out of CA. And then when it came out that TSLHN paid for those transport costs, Nailah changed the crowd-source scheme to say they needed the money to pay for Jahi's health care. And now we find out that the IBRF has been covering all those costs. So, really, if it's not about money, Nailah, why have you been asking for free money, using two reasons you need that money where those costs were actually covered by charitable organizations?

If everything in regards to Jahi is already paid for, then why do you need crowd source funding to pay for those things...that are already paid for? (PHEW, talking in a circle, sorry).

Okay we can possibly believe her in that she was using that money to pay for the $240/week GNC habit. But the $60,000+ so far collected pays for that many times over thus far. What we then have as evidence is all the expensive lifestyle choices Nailah and Marvin have been able to afford the past 10 months. Two people who have been virtually unemployed since this began - and not because they have no choice but to stay home with the body and "care" for it. We know the body receives 24/7 home nursing care, as well as when it was in St. Peter's hospital.

A lot of money taken in for a cause that is apparently already paid for by charities, and absolutely no accountability as to where that money has been used for. I just think about all the people who ask for charity to help pay for cancer treatments, and end up going to jail/paying restitution when the public finds out said person didn't have cancer at all, and just used the donated money on expensive lifestyle choices.

 

[MyBelle]

Exactly. Dead people do not receive medical care. There doesn't need to be a "code of ethics" regarding that.

1) Jahi is dead.

2) she has a death certificate

3) her atty can't prove anything to the contrary and withdrew his motion

4) Jahi is dead

5) she has a death certificate

<modsnip>

JMO

However, hospital Chief of Pediatrics David Durand said the judge didn't authorize a transfer to another facility.

"Children's Hospital Oakland does not believe that performing surgical procedures on the body of a deceased person is an appropriate medical practice. Children's Hospital Oakland continues to extend its wishes for peace and closure to Jahi McMath's family," Durand said.


http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/28/health/life-support-ethics/

 

[Hiandmighty]

Right. Doctors don't perform medical procedures on deceased people. It's not appropriate medical practice. Practicing medicine is an active word. People who are deceased are, unfortunately, only alive in the past.

Poor Jahi. I really wish Her family would accept Her death and death certificate.

 

[TJL]

And that is your opinion, not fact.

Which part is opinion, and not fact? The dead part? The death certificate part? The withdrawal of the petition to the court? Or the fact that she is dead and has a death certificate were repeated twice?

Or finally the part about Dolan being unable to prove anything to the contrary? He can't prove she doesn't have a death certificate...because she DOES have a death certificate. He can't prove she's not dead, because she was already found to be deceased in December of last year. So, pray tell, which of those three things are opinion and not fact? Because from where I'm sitting, all three are certifiable facts. Death. Death certificate. Withdrawn motion.

 

[Donjeta]

JMO I think in the case of pregnant brain dead women it's normally the fetus who is the intended recipient of care but you can't care for them without caring for the braindead mother. Should they have determined that Marlise Munoz's baby was dead I doubt she'd have been kept on life support that long.

 

[TJL]

JMO I think in the case of pregnant brain dead women it's normally the fetus who is the intended recipient of care but you can't care for them without caring for the braindead mother. Should they have determined that Marlise Munoz's baby was dead I doubt she'd have been kept on life support that long.

Yup. In that sort of case, the "vessel" or womb is what's being preserved in order to give the fetus enough time to survive outside the womb. There's no actual life-saving procedures or operations being performed on the body in an attempt to save a life that "once was". It's all done in the interest of saving a new life that is growing in the womb. So there's no ethical or moral question here to consider.

 

[southernmimi]

Time of death is called and determined thousands of times a day by medical professionals...who know what they're doing.

 

[MyBelle]

Right. Doctors don't perform medical procedures on deceased people. It's not appropriate medical practice. Practicing medicine is an active word. People who are deceased are, unfortunately, only alive in the past.

Poor Jahi. I really wish Her family would accept Her death and death certificate.

BBM. <modsnip>

Doctors do perform medical procedures on deceased people even if it is just for training purposesif the family gives consent. A physician did the trach/feeding tube on Jahi. Jahi has been hospitalized, she has been given an MRI and seen by board-certified experts. Those are established facts and links have been provided to support these facts.

Here's the AMA Code of Ethics:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3399321/


JMO

Here is the consideration it is allowed if the family permits:

CONCLUSION

Current ethical norms do not support the practice of using newly and nearly dead patients for training in invasive medical procedures absent prior consent by the patient or contemporaneous surrogate consent. Performing an appropriately consented training procedure is ethically acceptable when done under competent supervision and with appropriate professional decorum. The ethics of training on the newly and nearly dead remains an insufficiently examined area of medical training.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1495118/

 

[TJL]

I think we can all agree that what's being done on Jahi's corpse is not for the purposes of training, but rather, for less-than-altruistic reasons. So the consideration about allowing procedures on corpses for the purposes of training is completely irrelevant here.

 

[Harmony 2]

Please stay on topic. Personalized posts which are directed at other members need to cease. Agree to disagree and move on.

 

[TJL]

After finding the new court documents that were filed yesterday and today, I've been refreshing the courts' page periodically to see if anything else gets added today which may shed some light on "stuff". It seems a 2nd page was added to one of the previous documents I provided earlier:



Both pages are here:

(Motion to continue - dropped)




Page 2 just seems to be a certification page by the court clerk, that the documents were mailed from 201 13th St Oakland (a post office) on 10/20/2014. Not sure exactly what this means, other than I assume it's just the clerks certification that they're mailing out the documents to all interested parties on Monday, 20th October, 2014. (Ooops! Did I find these documents before the attorneys got ahold of them? LOL)

 

[SwampMama]

After finding the new court documents that were filed yesterday and today, I've been refreshing the courts' page periodically to see if anything else gets added today which may shed some light on "stuff". It seems a 2nd page was added to one of the previous documents I provided earlier:

View attachment 61373

Both pages are here:

(Motion to continue - dropped)

View attachment 61374
View attachment 61375

Page 2 just seems to be a certification page by the court clerk, that the documents were mailed from 201 13th St Oakland (a post office) on 10/20/2014. Not sure exactly what this means, other than I assume it's just the clerks certification that they're mailing out the documents to all interested parties on Monday, 20th October, 2014. (Ooops! Did I find these documents before the attorneys got ahold of them? LOL)

BBM, either that or you have a time machine and have traveled to the future, lol!! Are you, Marty McFly in real life!?!?

Thanks so much for the documents. Having the real proof here helps to cut down on the BS and speculation.

 

[Harmony 2]

Please stay on topic. Personalized posts which are directed at other members need to cease. Agree to disagree and move on.

Once again please get back on topic... Please drop the discussion about the AMA. Move on... Get back to discussing Jahi McMath and her plight.

Moreover, there were some posts removed due to bashing the family and this is against our TOS.

Victim Friendly

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum.... Additionally, sleuthing family members or others that are not suspect is not allowed. Don't make random accusations or post personal information (even if it is public) like parking tickets, address, or first and last names of all their relatives and their neighbors. Also, never "bash" or attack them, or accuse them of involvement.....