Jahi’s family wants her declared 'alive again’

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Dolan cited that Jahi’s circulatory system and “all her organs continue to function and world class experts in neurology and brain death” will provide evidence that the one-time 8th-grader at E.C. Reems Academy in Oakland “no longer meets the definition of brain death because she has 'neuralgic function.'”

https://www.scribd.com/doc/241735750/Jahi-McMath-Brain-Death-Petition

I don't think Dolan knows what neuralgic means



http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/neuralgic

neuralgic (njʊˈrældʒɪk)

Definitions
adjective

(medicine) of, relating to, or characterized by neuralgia

neuralgia (njʊˈrældʒɪə Pronunciation for neuralgia )

Definitions
noun

severe spasmodic pain caused by damage to or malfunctioning of a nerve and often following the course of the nerve


The first time I read it, I was trying very hard “not to notice” those typos/ incorrect terms, so as not to be nit-picky and shrewish. Lol, but since the door is opened, I do have a comment. Why, oh why, do some high priced attorneys not have a competent medical person proof read their medically- related documents before filing with the court?? I have done this as a service in the past, and charged only a fraction of my usual fee, because it only takes me a short time to read through it and make corrections—not nearly as long as research. Errors like these make an attorney (and their client) look very foolish and less than knowledgeable, IMO. And worse, it looks like the documents were prepared carelessly and in haste. A client wants their attorney to appear very competent, and educated, IMO. Errors like these diminish the professionalism of the attorney, IMO.
 
I saw nothing meaningful in the movements. I saw a twitch of a foot and then saw a drink (?) fall out of her hand after her arm slipped off the bed. He hand was not holding the drink, there was some device holding it to her hand. It simply looked like the weight of the drink caused it to slip from her hand which was not holding it. Lax muscles vs the weight of gravity.

My foot (or other parts of body) twitch, it is not something that I (even with a functioning brain) can prevent or stop . So if my functioning brain cannot prevent it then I doubt her non functioning brain has anything to do with the twitch.

If she has such meaningful movement and responds to her mothers voice and touch, then surely there is more convincing evidence than this.

Also, if she is so active, then certainly putting nail extensions or allowing her nails to grow out could cause her to accidentally scratch herself and she is already at a risk for infection in her compromised state. A simple infection overwhelm her and it is unlikely any hospital would admit her for treatment since she is dead.

We would not put nail extension on a baby's hands and we even put little mitts on their hands to keep them from scratching themselves. What on earth is her mother thinking with these ridiculous manicures? Does she not understand that she is putting her child in danger if her child is indeed so "active". Therefore I believe she is not active or moving other than a simple twitch.
 
(Warning- long post.)

Well, I took one for the team, and subjected myself to watching most of the press conference last evening. It was an exercise in visual, auditory, and intellectual torture, IMO. I actually quit watching with 30 min to go, and I’m not sure if I have the fortitude to go back and finish it.

Some of my observations:

Dolan had 9 months to prepare for this volley, and IMO, he was woefully unprepared, and tremendously disorganized—which is rather surprising for an attorney. He did have a few nice powerpoint picture slides—ones that any 6th grader could have put together in the 15 min before the press conference. He didn’t have control of his experts by phone, and had no idea what they were going to say, and how far into the weeds they would go when allowed to talk. They rambled on and on and on, and whatever salient points they had were very difficult to ascertain. (Maybe that was the whole point—“baffle ‘em with BS!”)

What I did glean is that the psychologist Elena Markovsky, who did the EEG, actually does not have any experience at all with doing EEG’s for establishing brain death. Her experience with EEG’s is in living patient with significant mental health conditions—which is highly, highly different from organic brain conditions. She is not a medical doctor, she is a psychologist—not even a psychiatrist. I highly doubt that she would be qualified as an expert in court for purposes of establishing brain death. Just because she knows how to hook up the electrodes to the patient and the apparatus, does not mean she is qualified to interpret the findings in a case such as this.

For example, a technician with a high school education can be trained to hook up an EEG or EKG machine, but they are not qualified to interpret the diagnostic test. Reputable medical centers do not use psychologists to administer EEGs to establish brain death, nor do they use psychologists to interpret the findings of EEGs in cases of acute brain injury. There is a place within healthcare for psychologists to consider the results of EEGs in the care of patients with mental health conditions, but this is not such a case, IMO. And as Dr. Arthur Kaplan commented in an article, he could detect some electricial activity in a bowl of jello. (If you doubt this, remember the potato- as- a- battery experiments and lemon battery experiments from grade school?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_battery

Dr. Machado and Phillip Defina talked at length about brain stem function versus higher cerebral activity. This is where the conversation went far into the weeds, IMO. They both seem to embrace that total brain stem death is separate from higher cerebral death. If I understood their garbled audio correctly, they want the brain stem to be considered separately from the higher cerebral portions of the brain. (Again, reference the lemon battery experiments above for my opinion on this.) This is VERY far outside of any kind of mainstream medical or scientific thinking about total brainstem functioning.

They also want to reject the “integrated functioning” explanations of brain death, such that if there is cell functioning, or cell signals anywhere in the body or remnants of brain tissue, that the person should not properly be considered dead. Again, my opinion is that cells can be sustained outside the body for a long time, kidneys and other solid organs can survive outside the body during preparation for transplant, so I’m not sure how an argument about somatic support of cells and organs equals “not brain dead”.

There appears to be some discernible structure left to Jahi’s brain. MRI appears to establish that. It does mean that whatever changes have occurred inside her skull have not resulted in complete liquefaction of the brain tissue. That still doesn’t mean she is alive, or that her brain has any function .The remnants of structure on MRI cannot automatically be ascribed as living, functioning tissue. Plenty of people have failed, dead organs such as kidneys, that are still in situ (in the body), and even isolated from perfusion, but are basically knobs of non-functioning tissue that have calcified or congealed into a mass. We see these in the OR when they are removed. What Dolan’s team does acknowledge is that Jahi has a VERY serious “brain injury.” I’m sure not an expert at reading brain MRIs, and will leave further interpretation up to qualified neurologists. But the snippet I saw on their screen looked globally horrific, from my experience.

I also wanted to just touch base briefly on Dolan’s team’s comments that Jahi’s hypothalamic- pituitary- ovarian axis must somehow be intact or functional, since Jahi has had menarche (started her first period.) We have to remember that Jahi was a relatively normal, but very overweight, 13 year old adolescent when the events of last December happened. She was on the verge of menarche when she became brain dead, and had obvious breast development in pictures. That means that until she was brain dead, her hypothalamic- pituitary- ovarian axis was intact and presumably functioning normally. Additionally, her excess body fat would have made her reproductive system somewhat more responsive to endogenous estrogen, which is also produced by fat tissue, as well as reproductive organs. There are studies of children who have experienced traumatic brain injury, with damage to the hypothalamus and the hypothalamic- pituitary- gonadal axis, and still experienced precocious puberty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothalamic–pituitary–gonadal_axis

http://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(87)80497-3/abstract

I don’t pretend to understand all of the endocrine issues at the level of a specialist physician or scientist, but I know enough to understand that reproductive systems can continue to function in catastrophically brain injured, as well as brain dead individuals, who were previously normal before the traumatic injury. We see brain dead pregnant women being maintained for varying lengths on life support measures to gestate the end of a pregnancy to viability for the fetus. We also saw Marlise Munoz in Texas, at the end of the first trimester, be maintained on life support for weeks to months, after suffering brain death. Even the young boy who was brain dead from meningitis at age 4, for 20 years, went on to develop some secondary sex characteristics, such as pubic hair,and axillary hair, although his testicles never descended. At autopsy, his brain was a calcified into a small lump at the base of the skull. That suggests that there are some corporal mechanisms in children and adolescents for some parts of reproductive maturity to occur, in the absence of hypothalamic- pituitary- gonadal axis function.

For example, it would be very interesting to know whether or not Jahi has experienced ovulation, or if she has menstruation in the absence of ovarian function. Either way, I am highly skeptical whether the presence of vaginal bleeding (which may, or may not be actual menarche) in Jahi is proof that she has some level of intact hypothalamic- pituitary- ovarian axis for stimulation of reproductive hormones.

(Anyway, that's enough of a marathon post for today! Thanks to any who read it!)
 
Dolan's Sept 30 court-filed memo states
"B. Reasonable Possibility of Mistake in Diagnosis...."
"Petitioner, is in possession of current evidence, including MRI evidence of the integrity of the brain structure, electrical activity in her brain as demonstrated by EEG, the onset of menarche (her entering into puberty, as evidenced by the beginning of menstruation)
her response to audible commands, given both by her mother and an examining physician, demonstrating that Jahi McMath's brain death was not 'irreversible.'"
/docs/172795721/jahidoc100214.pdf


Medical professionals:
I could only watch part of Oct 3 presser, will try watching again, but wonder about Dolan's claimed evidence.

1 MRI evidence of the integrity of the brain structure. Purported excerpts were shown at presser.
2 electrical activity in her brain as demonstrated by EEG. Purported excerpts were shown at presser.
For ^these^ I thought Dolan said presser- attendees would get copies.
And would also get copies of the expert witnesses' CVs, etc.
Has anyone seen these as jpg type files, links, attachments anywhere? Or will we have to wait for a hearing?

3 the onset of menarche (her entering into puberty, as evidenced by the beginning of menstruation).
Could ^this^ happen without any brain function?

4. her response to audible commands, given both by her mother and an examining physician.
vid clips which some (or many?) here believe do not support his contention that Jahi complies w voice commands.

Any thoughts about the above? Any other links? Thx in adv.

ETA:
K_Z, looks like we were posting at same time, and looks like you, once again, answered my questions, before I even asked.
Looks like his 4 points of evd of brain death reversal, are provided by ppl who may not be approp as expert witnesses to offer facts or opns?
So all 4 points may be pretty wobbly in his attempt to estab reversal of brain death?
TYVM

ETA2:
The larger point here, imo, is even if Jahi's mother's atty Dolan successfully clears legal hurdles,
whether procedural or substantive, he still has to prove up Jahi's reversal from brain death.

Petition ack's brain death conclusion made in Dec., but says now w swelling reduced, and healing has occurred,
so her BD was reversible with passage of time.
He needs scientific, medical evidence and what he has looks pretty wobbly.

Interesting that he is not picking on med test results & conclusions made in Dec., just saying, BD Is reversible.
 
I'd like to see the commands by a physician being followed. Why wasn't that in a you-tube video?
 
So no evidence of blood flow to the brain, then?

I think this is far more delusional than with Terri Schiavo. At least she was still alive and a very few people have come out of PVS (it's almost nonexistant though).
 
Waiting for confirmation of brain activity/blood flow.

Till then, marking my spot.
 
I am wondering why the videos are from last spring. This is October. The family has said she is 'improving' and learning to follow commands. So that would mean she is better at doing so now than she was 5 months ago. So maybe they could show a more recent example, with a longer lead up.

If I'm remembering correctly, it was right around that time that the pictures of Jahi's hands and feet came out. The hands were showing evidence of decomp, as were her feet. That may be why they aren't releasing anything more recent than May.
 
Henrietta Lacks died in 1951. Some of her cells live on in laboratories around the world. Does that mean that Henrietta Lacks is alive?
 
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

As a pediatric critical-care nurse who works with the best-of-the-best pediatric specialists in the country- it is APPALLING the metal gymnastics being performed here to 'prove' their hypothesis. That's all I'm going to say right now- because K_Z has already provided a stellar response.
 
Henrietta Lacks died in 1951. Some of her cells live on in laboratories around the world. Does that mean that Henrietta Lacks is alive?

Nice job with the Henrietta Lacks reference! :)
 
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...of-All-Time-Hospital-Spokesman-278044081.html

Sam Singer, attorney for CHO last year, is very critical of Dolan's motivations in the McMath case, related to the California Prop 46. There is also some older video in this article, of Dr. Paul Byrne, along with some new family details. Photo of Jahi on her way to the MRI.

With all due respect, Sam Singer is NOT an attorney. He is the former publicist for the hospital and his comments are politically motivated. It would be great if we could keep the thread about Jahi and not about politics.

JMO

But Sam Singer, the publicist who used to work as a spokesman for the hospital that treated Jahi and is now speaking out against Dolan, also has a stake in that campaign. Singer is paid as a publicist to work for the "No on 46" campaign, aiming to keep malpractice caps at their current level.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...of-All-Time-Hospital-Spokesman-278044081.html
 
In previous threads, I have discussed the work of Dr. D. Alan Shewmon, professor emeritus of Neurology at UCLA. Dr. Shewmon doesn't believe in brain death scientifically, and has been the voice of dissent during professional "think tanks" on brain death determination. Dr. Shewmon has produced some of the best and only retrospective reviews of the very few brain dead patients with prolonged somatic support, who have been studied.

Wesley J. Smith is a writer for the National Review Online. They have posted an article today that claims that Wesley J. Smith has been given a copy of a declaration filed with the Alameda County Court by Dr. Alan Shewmon. He is reportedly testifying that not only is Jahi not dead, but he believes she is "awake." This is quite an interesting read, and will certainly (if authentic) re-open national debate if this case survives and moves through the courts.

The article is easily found if you search under National Review.com and "Human Exceptionalism", by J. Wesley Smith. (I'm not certain the link is allowed to be posted here.)

Here are some very interesting links to other articles and comments by Dr. Shewmon about brain death, for those interested.

https://bioethicsarchive.georgetown.edu/pcbe/transcripts/nov07/session5.html

http://www.uned-illesbalears.net/Tablas/vida5.pdf

*Added comment: The comments attributed to Dr. Shewmon regarding Jahi's MRI findings and medical records in this article are quite interesting.
 
Paper presented in May 2014 at an American Academy of Neurology meeting.

Re-evaluating Brain Death: The Potential for Treatment and Recovery after Brain Injury

Note: 4 of the co-authors are Philip Defina, Dr. Calixto Machado, Dr. Charles Prestigiacomo, and (former) Dr. Jonathan Fellus (who had his medical license revoked this past summer.) The first 3 are part of Dolan's team of medical experts.

http://www.neurology.org/content/82/10_Supplement/P4.285.long
 
I have an additional thought I wanted to share. I read online an anonymous interpretation of Jahi's Sept 26 MRI. Because it is anonymously sourced, I won't link it here, and the information should not be regarded as fact. However, I will share that this anonymous reviewer appears to have experience reading MRIs, uses typical language, and the interpretation is grossly consistent with what I saw, so I do give it "some" credence.

With that said, the interpretation stated that the sella turcica was "obliterated". The pituitary gland resides in the sella turcica, which is a bony depression. If this is accurate, and the pituitary gland is obliterated, there can be no intact hypothalamic - pituitary - ovarian axis. So my theory above that some "other" corporal mechanism contributes to some aspects of reproductive maturity could have some logic.

(This is in regard to press conference and Attorney Dolan statements that since Jahi has had menarche, there must be a functioning hypothalamic - pituitary - ovarian axis.)

Also, I reviewed again the article about the little boy with meningitis at age 4, who survived brain death for 20+ years. He actually did have descended testes at autopsy, and what is described as "scant" pubic hair. So he definitely achieved some rudimentary aspects of sexual maturity, and he was clearly pre-pubescent at the time of brain death (age 4). Jahi was age 13, and on the verge of menarche, with evident breast development in pictures. It does not seem unusual, IMO, that her body could achieve some level of menarche at that age, even with brain death.

http://hods.org/pdf/Long Survival Following Baterial Meningits-Associated Brain Destruction1.pdf
 
I found the video looks like simple reflexes and the brain scan appeared to show liquid in the middle.
 
Dolan's Sept 30 court-filed memo states
"B. Reasonable Possibility of Mistake in Diagnosis...."
"Petitioner, is in possession of current evidence, including MRI evidence of the integrity of the brain structure, electrical activity in her brain as demonstrated by EEG, the onset of menarche (her entering into puberty, as evidenced by the beginning of menstruation)
her response to audible commands, given both by her mother and an examining physician, demonstrating that Jahi McMath's brain death was not 'irreversible.'"
/docs/172795721/jahidoc100214.pdf


Medical professionals:
I could only watch part of Oct 3 presser, will try watching again, but wonder about Dolan's claimed evidence.

1 MRI evidence of the integrity of the brain structure. Purported excerpts were shown at presser.
2 electrical activity in her brain as demonstrated by EEG. Purported excerpts were shown at presser.
For ^these^ I thought Dolan said presser- attendees would get copies.
And would also get copies of the expert witnesses' CVs, etc.
Has anyone seen these as jpg type files, links, attachments anywhere? Or will we have to wait for a hearing?

3 the onset of menarche (her entering into puberty, as evidenced by the beginning of menstruation).
Could ^this^ happen without any brain function?

4. her response to audible commands, given both by her mother and an examining physician.
vid clips which some (or many?) here believe do not support his contention that Jahi complies w voice commands.

Any thoughts about the above? Any other links? Thx in adv.

ETA:
K_Z, looks like we were posting at same time, and looks like you, once again, answered my questions, before I even asked.
Looks like his 4 points of evd of brain death reversal, are provided by ppl who may not be approp as expert witnesses to offer facts or opns?
So all 4 points may be pretty wobbly in his attempt to estab reversal of brain death?
TYVM

ETA2:
The larger point here, imo, is even if Jahi's mother's atty Dolan successfully clears legal hurdles,
whether procedural or substantive, he still has to prove up Jahi's reversal from brain death.

Petition ack's brain death conclusion made in Dec., but says now w swelling reduced, and healing has occurred,
so her BD was reversible with passage of time.
He needs scientific, medical evidence and what he has looks pretty wobbly.

Interesting that he is not picking on med test results & conclusions made in Dec., just saying, BD Is reversible.

I think they are saying the current criteria used to diagnose brain death are not reliable.

JMO
 
I have an additional thought I wanted to share. I read online an anonymous interpretation of Jahi's Sept 26 MRI. Because it is anonymously sourced, I won't link it here, and the information should not be regarded as fact. However, I will share that this anonymous reviewer appears to have experience reading MRIs, uses typical language, and the interpretation is grossly consistent with what I saw, so I do give it "some" credence.

With that said, the interpretation stated that the sella turcica was "obliterated". The pituitary gland resides in the sella turcica, which is a bony depression. If this is accurate, and the pituitary gland is obliterated, there can be no intact hypothalamic - pituitary - ovarian axis. So my theory above that some "other" corporal mechanism contributes to some aspects of reproductive maturity could have some logic.

(This is in regard to press conference and Attorney Dolan statements that since Jahi has had menarche, there must be a functioning hypothalamic - pituitary - ovarian axis.)

Also, I reviewed again the article about the little boy with meningitis at age 4, who survived brain death for 20+ years. He actually did have descended testes at autopsy, and what is described as "scant" pubic hair. So he definitely achieved some rudimentary aspects of sexual maturity, and he was clearly pre-pubescent at the time of brain death (age 4). Jahi was age 13, and on the verge of menarche, with evident breast development in pictures. It does not seem unusual, IMO, that her body could achieve some level of menarche at that age, even with brain death.

http://hods.org/pdf/Long Survival Following Baterial Meningits-Associated Brain Destruction1.pdf

That article was written by some of Dr. Paul Byrne's colleagues at Creighton University Medical School. And not that it has anything to do with this case but Dr. Roger Brumback and his wife were murdered by a disgruntled former Pathology Dept. resident physician last year.

JMO
 
I cannot believe there isn't anyone who can put a stop to this madness.
 
Paper presented in May 2014 at an American Academy of Neurology meeting.


Note: 4 of the co-authors are Philip Defina, Dr. Calixto Machado, Dr. Charles Prestigiacomo, and (former) Dr. Jonathan Fellus (who had his medical license revoked this past summer.) The first 3 are part of Dolan's team of medical experts.

http://www.neurology.org/content/82/10_Supplement/P4.285.long

Has this team had any 'luck' bringing patients into recovery after massive brain injuries?

Jahi does not look very recovered, as far as I can tell. I would never want my child to be 'living' in that state. She has no life as far as I can see. It is like a form of bondage. Let her soul go free. :candle:
 
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