Jahi’s family wants her declared 'alive again’

[TJL]

When was it filed? The only media reports I've seen said it was unofficial. My question to the verified attorney is: if it is still unofficial does the court even need to get involved? There has been much silence since Dolan asked the court to let the physicians work it out.


The family's lawyer Christopher Dolan told the judge he wanted time for the court-appointed doctor and his own medical experts to confer. No new court date has been scheduled.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ily-continues-insist-alive.html#ixzz3NPHDunX2


The coroner's office said that the death certificate -- which still needs to be accepted by the health department to become official -- has a date of death of December 12, 2013.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/03/health/jahi-mcmath-girl-brain-dead/

You're quoting articles from January 3rd. The reason why it wasn't "completed" at that time is because the case was still being litigated at that time. It became final when Grillo signed off on the out-of-court settlement between the family and CHO, and subsequently issuing a judgement denying the family's continued TRO and request for continued medical care. I don't want to sound argumentative here, but you're quoting really old stuff that is outdated due to the fact that judgments were issued just a couple weeks after-the-fact.

But honestly, I'll just defer back to my original statement that if this was even a remotely simple possibility that you are suggesting, Dolan would have tried it instead of going for the "hail mary" of all court judgments, reserved for the slimmest of chances and absolute last resort possibility of having the death certificate invalidated? He's a smart guy. I don't think he would have overlooked such a simple possibility in the quest for going for the hardest, most obscure one. He's no stranger to cases like this...it's his bread and butter.

P.S. Good to see you back, MyBelle.

 

[K_Z]

Just an fyi I'm throwing out here. It's unconfirmed, but from a twitter source that is close to the family circle (MizQue). A tweet dated 29 December, 2014 10:27pm states the following:

Post dated 2 weeks ago on Youtube - JahiMcmath's step-dad is texting Jahi has a lung infection & isn't expected to make it. Any confirmation?

If true, I wonder if the family may try a splashy and high profile "Holy Mary" for admission to some acute care facility, by calling 911? Or showing up in the ER by private conveyance? (To preserve their right to sue them for not treating her body any further.) Just my speculation, based on their prior behavior.

JMO, but the eventual cardiac arrest of Jahi's heart will not be a private family matter. The family will emerge with renewed anger, resentment, and indignation that she wasn't "treated" by another ICU admission to prevent her from "dying".

 

[Hiandmighty]

I believe it violates the TOS which states the information must be true and accurate.

 

[K_Z]

I don't know about other sources of info from family, but they are around and posting on their "Keep Jahi" FB site. They posted both a Christmas greeting, as well as New Year's well wishes to their supporters, but not a word about Jahi in either post.

No new family posts on the 2 active fundraisers, either. The "new" fundraiser is not collecting much at all, and almost all the comments are pretty direct and brutal (not favorable to the family). It does not appear that this traditional holiday season of giving has contributed much to their efforts, even from their most ardent and loyal supporters.

It will be very interesting to see if Dolan and the family emerge re-energized with a renewed effort to try to do something legally after the holiday quiet. It was around Halloween when they withdrew their petition to declare Jahi "alive again", and said they needed about 4 weeks to "study" the situation. So we're at 8 weeks now from that burst of effort.

 

[joypath]

. sbm

This phrase - needs to be accepted - seems a bit vague.

Can anyone enlighten us about D/C procedure - what's involved in the health dept 'accepting'?
Either specifically in Oakland, in CA. or in US generally? TIA.

ETA
After noting date of link - Jan. 2014 - not certain that the D/C still needs to be 'accepted' by health dept.

BBM:

The jurisdictions within which I practiced function quite effectively: the bureau of vital records/health department receives the completed document and codes it as needed (their chronological code and then the state & federal codes), files it either manually (yep, paper files still exist!) or enter the data into a database. Certified copies are available based on the SOP of the agency. Please remember that death certificates are completed by physicians every day, not every decedent requires a full OCME intervention. AND...........the actual physical transport of these documents can be delivered by anybody designated by a hospital (for hospital deaths), a medical practice or even in volume from a Medical Examiner's office (sometimes NOT a "daily delivery").


I totally agree that the comments from the article are time sensitive based on the activities within the case.

IMO!

 

[K_Z]

Joypath, if you're still around, can you comment on whether the death certificate for Jahi is indeed "filed" anywhere? There seems to be a persistent idea by a few that because there is a delay in the "final" additions to the DC, that the death certificate is only "preliminary"-- as though it can be "poofed" away or something.

 

[TJL]

Joypath, if you're still around, can you comment on whether the death certificate for Jahi is indeed "filed" anywhere? There seems to be a persistent idea by a few that because there is a delay in the "final" additions to the DC, that the death certificate is only "preliminary"-- as though it can be "poofed" away or something.

I think the biggest thing we have to remember is that the hospital was never allowed to release the body to the coroner until after the out-of-court settlement was reached between the two parties (Nailah Winkfield vs. CHO). Once Grillo signed off on that (I'm sooooo not going to go back through the court documents again, lol - but I'm thinking it was ~10th of January), the coroner took custody and then immediately - like, right at the hospital - turned the body over to the family.

I'm no expert on this, but this would suggest to me that the appropriate date to begin looking for a death certificate filing was on that specific date: the date CHO turned the body over to coroner, and coroner released it to family. The court proceedings prior to that were kind of a suppressing element to the official filing of any death documents, since it was still being decided on by Grillo. JMHO opinion here...again, no expert on how they do that stuff, but makes perfect sense to me.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I am just posting this here for reference. http://www.cdph.ca.gov/certlic/birthdeathmar/Documents/Affidavit-DeathPAMPHLET-(01-14)-MERGED.pdf

I actually can across that, when I was looking for something more on the lines of procedure for changes that may be made on a death certificate, say for example when autopsy results are finalized. For example: something may be noted as suicide and later found out to be homicide

Maybe this is more applicable and would answer more questions about data released to the public:

https://simba.isr.umich.edu/restricted/docs/Mortality/codedcauses_readfirst.pdf

(read first paragraph under entity axis codes)

Of course, I know nothing about any of these things and hopefully Joypath will return to give a better explanation on how procedures work.

edited to add: IMO, there definitely is a death certificate for Jahi. It has been filed. Things could be changed or added to for cause of death once an autopsy is done. Maybe the death certificate is not complete as far as being available to the public, until after autopsy?

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I thought it was a given, that Jahi died due to massive hemorrhaging resulting in brain death. The actual cause of the hemorrhage is what is incomplete and I have doubts that after this length of time an autopsy will reveal anything more than she is indeed brain dead. The autopsy is still a piece of the death investigation that has to be performed. IMO

 

[joypath]

Joypath, if you're still around, can you comment on whether the death certificate for Jahi is indeed "filed" anywhere? There seems to be a persistent idea by a few that because there is a delay in the "final" additions to the DC, that the death certificate is only "preliminary"-- as though it can be "poofed" away or something.

BBM:

While I am NOT intimately familiar with the process in Ca., I am confident that the document (D/C) IS present within the files.....and totally agree with TJL that the physical processing date was effected by the legal issues, those that were finalized in Jan. 2014. Note the date of the previously quoted article (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/03/he...rl-brain-dead/). Until adjudicated, Jahi's body was NOT traveling anywhere (if one looks at the standard D/C, there is a section for this information...ie. funeral director/home, type of interment, when & where) PS: these are NOT recordable D/Cs! http://www.hooverwebdesign.com/free-printables/printable-certificates/certificates-of-death.html

Now regarding the concept of "preliminary" ...............IMVHO, the ONLY part of the certificate that is "preliminary" per sec is the MOD, probably currently identified as under investigation (the standardized choices are" natural, accident, suicide, homicide or undetermined").

Hope this helps.

MOO

 

[joypath]

I am just posting this here for reference. http://www.cdph.ca.gov/certlic/birthdeathmar/Documents/Affidavit-DeathPAMPHLET-(01-14)-MERGED.pdf

I actually can across that, when I was looking for something more on the lines of procedure for changes that may be made on a death certificate, say for example when autopsy results are finalized. For example: something may be noted as suicide and later found out to be homicide

Maybe this is more applicable and would answer more questions about data released to the public:

https://simba.isr.umich.edu/restricted/docs/Mortality/codedcauses_readfirst.pdf

(read first paragraph under entity axis codes)

Of course, I know nothing about any of these things and hopefully Joypath will return to give a better explanation on how procedures work.

edited to add: IMO, there definitely is a death certificate for Jahi. It has been filed. Things could be changed or added to for cause of death once an autopsy is done. Maybe the death certificate is not complete as far as being available to the public, until after autopsy?[/QUOTE]

BBM:


Again, death certificates CAN be amended &/or changed when VALID scientific or verified data is brought to light to the OCME. The COD of this case was presented by the pronouncing physician (s) and IMVHO, it's the manner of death that is pending/under investigation (jurisdictional terms may vary, after all we ARE the USA but the individuality of each State is celebrated! ).

Regarding availability to the public: the hypothesis above seems solid, I also wonder if there are legalities in Ca. or the receiving County that preclude the release of this type of document since the decedent is a minor......I'm thinking of the possible adaptation of the name to practice id fraud! In some jurisdictions, these documents are NOT released unless the recipient is a proven family member, used in court (& not redacted!) or under subpoena.


Almost forgot again!: here's a sample D/C (not from my jurisdiction but so similar!) http://bartonfuneral.com/forms/sample-death-certificate/

 

[Hiandmighty]

Well, jahi is still dead so i dont know how much they can do with that.

When was the whole claim that jahi was responding-- october?

Obviously nothing there....

 

[katydid23]

I am wondering if maybe her heart stopped. I wonder how they will handle that when it finally happens? Will they just 'go dark' and quietly walk away?

 

[charminglane]

I am wondering if maybe her heart stopped. I wonder how they will handle that when it finally happens? Will they just 'go dark' and quietly walk away?

Never in a million years. Imo.

 

[Steft50]

A conversation with my DH about taxes for 2014 got me wondering....Will or can the family try to claim medical deductions and child benefit for Jahi for 2014? Thoughts?

 

[K_Z]

A conversation with my DH about taxes for 2014 got me wondering....Will or can the family try to claim medical deductions and child benefit for Jahi for 2014? Thoughts?

No. She has a death certificate issued in 2013, so she was not a living person/ dependent in the entire year of 2014. They may have needed a copy of that to claim her as a dependent for a portion of 2013, if they did-- I'm not sure how that works, actually. I think they could face serious legal & tax difficulties if they tried to claim her body as a dependent for 2014, and were audited/ discovered.

They can't claim her for other purposes, such as receiving SSI or Medicaid, either. That was the basis of their publicity volley in Oct/ Nov 2014 to petition the courts to declare her "alive again." In late Oct, Dolan withdrew the petition he filed for "alive again" consideration, stating he needed 4 weeks for his experts to study the issues. We are well past that now, with no hints or announcements for quite a while.

 

[Nore]

It just feels like one of those "it's quiet, too quiet" situations.

---------
I'd LOVE to see her blood work , blood gases etc..

 

[al66pine]

Perhaps splitting hairs? Or an important distinction in this case?

"Originally Posted by Steft50 A conversation with my DH about taxes for 2014 got me wondering....
Will or can the family try to claim medical deductions and child benefit for Jahi for 2014? Thoughts?" bbm

Rephrasing the question - can mom's federal income tax return lawfully claim Jahi as a dependent, 'medical expenses' for itemized deduction, child care credit, etc, all contingent on Jahi being alive in 2014, then K_Z's answer below is accurate, imo.

Otherwise, taking the original question literally, imo, Jahi's mother will or can try to claim just about anything, notwithstanding reality. JM2cts.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

No. She has a death certificate issued in 2013, so she was not a living person/ dependent in the entire year of 2014. They may have needed a copy of that to claim her as a dependent for a portion of 2013, if they did-- I'm not sure how that works, actually. I think they could face serious legal & tax difficulties if they tried to claim her body as a dependent for 2014, and were audited/ discovered.

They can't claim her for other purposes, such as receiving SSI or Medicaid, either. That was the basis of their publicity volley in Oct/ Nov 2014 to petition the courts to declare her "alive again." In late Oct, Dolan withdrew the petition he filed for "alive again" consideration, stating he needed 4 weeks for his experts to study the issues. We are well past that now, with no hints or announcements for quite a while.

. bbm

 

[Hekattee]

There have already been comments made about this on the 'Keep Jahi on Life Support' page on FB.