Jana Duggar Charged With Endangering the Welfare of a Minor, Sept 2021 *Guilty*

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I hear you, sister (or brother). But there is nothing in law that prevents one having 19 kids and 22 grandkids at home with only one adult supervising. The rules for teachers and daycare situations place legal limitations on such things, but there is no such law for compounds such as the Duggers. Common sense would tell you such a setup is a recipe for disaster, but the law allows it. Until after something happens. Only then can the law do something about it. After a child is harmed or dead, but not until then. jmo

I'm a sister, lol, you were right :p I get it, but most of my concern is the potential for having a possibility of upwards of 30+ kids at home supervised by only one adult leads to the possibility of so many incidents that can fall under the umbrella of the legal definition of child endangerment. It is unfortunate that the only time things come to light, and maybe change, is when someone has the potential to end up hurt or dead.
 
I'm a sister, lol, you were right :p I get it, but most of my concern is the potential for having a possibility of upwards of 30+ kids at home supervised by only one adult leads to the possibility of so many incidents that can fall under the umbrella of the legal definition of child endangerment. It is unfortunate that the only time things come to light, and maybe change, is when someone has the potential to end up hurt or dead.
I don't know what's to be done about it honestly. I don't want to be part of a society where the government decides how many children/grandchildren one is allowed to have based on income or some other criteria. Some people are rich enough to hire nannies and staff for 19 children. Most are not (like the Duggars in this instance), so they practice parentification where the older children parent the new kids as they come along. Perhaps some kind of laws could be passed in that direction? It is abusive, in my opinion, to force older siblings into parenting children that are not theirs. To force older children to give up school, extra curricular activities, friends, college to raise someone else's kids. There should be laws against that, at least. IMO
 
I hear you, sister (or brother). But there is nothing in law that prevents one having 19 kids and 22 grandkids at home with only one adult supervising. The rules for teachers and daycare situations place legal limitations on such things, but there is no such law for compounds such as the Duggers. Common sense would tell you such a setup is a recipe for disaster, but the law allows it. Until after something happens. Only then can the law do something about it. After a child is harmed or dead, but not until then. jmo

True. However, as a teacher in NYC, our union has a contract that caps the amount of children in each class. It's worthless, though, because we have new students coming in every week, often from other countries, and they have to go somewhere. I've had 37 students when the contractual max is 32 for a gifted class and 30 otherwise.

IMO the reason we can control the situation is that they are confined into one classroom for one or two class periods, with me or another teacher. They're not running around a huge home and compound where they are out of my line of sight. It's certainly difficult to give each child the attention they each deserve, but they're not in danger.

Out of the 19 kids and 22 grandkids, some of the 19 kids are the parents of these grandchildren, so they are adults. Those 22 grandchildren are young, however, and again unlike a classroom, those kids roam around. Also there are guns, staircases, stoves and other hazards that don't exist in a classroom.

Jmo
 
True. However, as a teacher in NYC, our union has a contract that caps the amount of children in each class. It's worthless, though, because we have new students coming in every week, often from other countries, and they have to go somewhere. I've had 37 students when the contractual max is 32 for a gifted class and 30 otherwise.

IMO the reason we can control the situation is that they are confined into one classroom for one or two class periods, with me or another teacher. They're not running around a huge home and compound where they are out of my line of sight. It's certainly difficult to give each child the attention they each deserve, but they're not in danger.

Out of the 19 kids and 22 grandkids, some of the 19 kids are the parents of these grandchildren, so they are adults. Those 22 grandchildren are young, however, and again unlike a classroom, those kids roam around. Also there are guns, staircases, stoves and other hazards that don't exist in a classroom.

Jmo

Yeah, I've heard stories of teachers having way over the contractual max for students, and I witnessed it myself in high school. I've heard stories of kids having to sit on the floor because there were too many kids and not enough desks, and the admin didn't want to pay for more desks...and computer classes with not enough computers, so kids have to take turns.

I definitely agree that it's a different set of circumstances between a classroom and a household. I just parallel them in my mind because they are about the same amount of kids, and I'm an only child, so I didn't grow up with a house full of siblings. I find it so ridiculous that they expect 1-2 adults at a time to keep an eye on that many children at home, especially when they have been known to have unsecured firearms, steep stairs, possible chemicals, etc.
 
My first guess - as the parent of extremely active children - is that the child slipped away unnoticed and was found by the witness JH.

My second guess is that this is not the first time that a young child being cared for at the residence has been found off-property, like a street or neighboring property (cars, garages, and sheds can be dangerous). A first-time lapse in supervision probably wouldn’t result in a charge.

JMO. Glad no one was hurt.

this is a very interesting turn of events. I wonder how/why it was kept quiet until after Josh was convicted?

it had to, IMO, been something really bad or not a first offense I agree. Kids wander off all time, it happens to lots of us and people are rarely charged. to charge this well known, not especially controversial, pretty girl (you know what I mean) who has raised numerous kids…it had to be a real danger IMO. I can’t imagine, though, that she intended to harm a child.

the house of cards is falling.
 
this is a very interesting turn of events. I wonder how/why it was kept quiet until after Josh was convicted?

it had to, IMO, been something really bad or not a first offense I agree. Kids wander off all time, it happens to lots of us and people are rarely charged. to charge this well known, not especially controversial, pretty girl (you know what I mean) who has raised numerous kids…it had to be a real danger IMO. I can’t imagine, though, that she intended to harm a child.

the house of cards is falling.
Do they have a pool in their compound?
 

It was quite sad.

I am very much not a fan of the Duggars, but I am glad that they have the sense to not have a pool at a house with so many kids running around - if they did I am certain there would be a child drowning before this. :( It's easy to forget how common drowning is, especially with kiddos!
 
Here is a photo of the outside of the Duggar's big house as of November 2019. It is a very nice, large house - 7000 sq ft. They moved in in 2006. It was made by putting together two house kits. I didn't realize they had what appears to be a tennis or badminton court (I don't know sports) in their backyard. They also have a gazebo and a fire pit.

image
(Link to photo:Duggars Deny Report That Their Family Home in Arkansas Was Raided by Homeland Security)

This is a photo of their living room I grabbed from the family blog. I just wanted to include this to help show where they probably are most of the time and how large it is, and that's just one room. The kitchen is also HUGE. It would be really easy to lose track of a kid there even without there being a ton.

2%252C000+sq+ft+living+area.jpg
(Link to photo: https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VApTcwWB...XmiVGrDww/s1600/2%2C000+sq+ft+living+area.jpg)
 
I’m thinking they got kitchen trays and were sledding down the stairs. Someone was gonna get hurt, especially if there were 22 of them with only one adult.

But, come to think of it, would only the “babysitter” be liable for charges in that case, or would all of the parents as well as JimBobby and Michelle? They would all be negligent for having only one babysitter, surely?

Any of the rumors seem unlikely to create charges (as opposed to a warning or a ticket). I’m thinking the channel had to be from an obligated reporter, like a physician.

If I were poor Jana, I’d probably have unconscious fantasies about acting on how difficult my position was, and it might be difficult to contain those or slip up from the pressure of the fantasy. I could imagine it being extremely difficult not to take it out on something or someone.
I have a lot of room for empathy here…
 
I’m thinking they got kitchen trays and were sledding down the stairs. Someone was gonna get hurt, especially if there were 22 of them with only one adult.

But, come to think of it, would only the “babysitter” be liable for charges in that case, or would all of the parents as well as JimBobby and Michelle? They would all be negligent for having only one babysitter, surely?

Any of the rumors seem unlikely to create charges (as opposed to a warning or a ticket). I’m thinking the channel had to be from an obligated reporter, like a physician.

If I were poor Jana, I’d probably have unconscious fantasies about acting on how difficult my position was, and it might be difficult to contain those or slip up from the pressure of the fantasy. I could imagine it being extremely difficult not to take it out on something or someone.
I have a lot of room for empathy here…

There's those giant steep stairs, really tall rafters a kid could potentially dangle from, a big height difference in the stories of the house...

I would be curious to know if Jim Bob and Michelle were on the property at the time, because if they were, I can't imagine them not getting charged (I could be wrong). The Duggars travel out of state a lot for weddings, births, conferences, etc., so they might've tasked Jana with watching a whole bunch of kids while they were gone, hence them not getting charged. Unfortunately, I don't think there would be a case for negligence on the part of JB and M there.

I'm withholding judgment until we know the story, but I am extremely curious. I can absolutely see how a kid could slip under the radar in that giant house with so many other kids.

When you say the channel had to be from a mandated reporter (i.e. a physician, etc.), do you mean a mandated reporter may have reported Jana for neglect, or something like that?
 
There's those giant steep stairs, really tall rafters a kid could potentially dangle from, a big height difference in the stories of the house...

I would be curious to know if Jim Bob and Michelle were on the property at the time, because if they were, I can't imagine them not getting charged (I could be wrong). The Duggars travel out of state a lot for weddings, births, conferences, etc., so they might've tasked Jana with watching a whole bunch of kids while they were gone, hence them not getting charged. Unfortunately, I don't think there would be a case for negligence on the part of JB and M there.

I'm withholding judgment until we know the story, but I am extremely curious. I can absolutely see how a kid could slip under the radar in that giant house with so many other kids.

When you say the channel had to be from a mandated reporter (i.e. a physician, etc.), do you mean a mandated reporter may have reported Jana for neglect, or something like that?

I believe that JB and Michelle were on their "Grand Vacation", otherwise known as "dogging subpoenas". Oh, they left a week later.

According to the "Duggar Family" blog, September 9, 2021 was celebrating 4 years of marriage for Kendra and Joe. 3 children in four years..(shudder).
Duggar Family Blog: Duggar Updates | Duggar Pictures | Jim Bob and Michelle | Counting On | 19 Kids: Joe and Kendra Celebrate 4 Years
 
this is a very interesting turn of events. I wonder how/why it was kept quiet until after Josh was convicted?

it had to, IMO, been something really bad or not a first offense I agree. Kids wander off all time, it happens to lots of us and people are rarely charged. to charge this well known, not especially controversial, pretty girl (you know what I mean) who has raised numerous kids…it had to be a real danger IMO. I can’t imagine, though, that she intended to harm a child.

the house of cards is falling.
I think the timing of this being made public is very interesting and has worked, at least partially, to take the spotlight off Josh’s conviction. So I find myself wondering who would want to do that, at the expense of one of the females in the family? Moo, imo
 
I think the timing of this being made public is very interesting and has worked, at least partially, to take the spotlight off Josh’s conviction. So I find myself wondering who would want to do that, at the expense of one of the females in the family? Moo, imo

To be honest, I did consider that, but I don't think the Duggars would want to use Jana in particular as a tool to take the spotlight off Josh. She is too valuable to the parents for the running of the household and taking care of the kids. They have other daughters (and sons) outside of the home who they could use as a pawn to divert attention away from Josh for lower risk. (Believe me, this is something I mulled over a lot in my head.) I think it was a legitimate mistake or lapse of judgment on Jana's part.
 
Yeah, I've heard stories of teachers having way over the contractual max for students, and I witnessed it myself in high school. I've heard stories of kids having to sit on the floor because there were too many kids and not enough desks, and the admin didn't want to pay for more desks...and computer classes with not enough computers, so kids have to take turns.

I definitely agree that it's a different set of circumstances between a classroom and a household. I just parallel them in my mind because they are about the same amount of kids, and I'm an only child, so I didn't grow up with a house full of siblings. I find it so ridiculous that they expect 1-2 adults at a time to keep an eye on that many children at home, especially when they have been known to have unsecured firearms, steep stairs, possible chemicals, etc.


In a classroom, it is easier to handle a large number of kids than in a home.

The entire classroom is designed for kids of a similar age, unlike a home which has many ages. The classroom can be prepared by an adult in advance. Meals come mostly ready for consumption in bags, or are made by others than teaching staff. There is janitorial staff, and administrative offices- and hopefully a nurse. If someone arrives to visit the school, someone other than teaching staff greets them.

A home is used 24/7 for many purposes, and it is not usually cordoned off, the kids that live there have beds upstairs, the family room is for all ages and adults, too, and can not only have age appropriate items. Children can be expected to stay in certain locations at certain times, but that is harder to enforce in a home, where the rules could change more rapidly when there are more or fewer kids or teens, or new babies appearing like magic.

A home bathroom could be packed with hazards. There might be a potty for a two year old and a regular toilet that a 1 year old can drown in, but the 4 year old cant get around a safety lock and waits until the last moment to run to the bathroom, so it is not used. The 8 year old leaves their legos out, which the babies that have become mobile want to taste. Opening up the bathroom upstairs causes total loss of control of the group, plus adds the hazard of the stairs. The 13 year old forgets they’re heating up the curling iron, and the 17 year old leaves a hair dryer plugged in when the baby they are assigned to starts crying. and a 10 year old, climbing onto the vanity to experiment with borrowed make up, kicks the dryer into the toilet. Anything that causes the toilet to clog, such as a jealous sibling flushing away someone’s favorite toy, becomes an emergency because the upstairs bathroom is available but causes a great un-corralling of the charges.

Unlike a teacher, the parent figure has to deal with preparing and serving food, cleaning up slippery or germy messes, plumbing problems, the doorbell... and a multiage group. Unlike a teacher, ill children could be present and expected to stay and be cared for sick.

The hazards connected to food prep are many. The hazards related to cleaning products used in a rush are many. A 6 year old threw up in the hall, and the English muffin pizzas the kids prepared themselves are under the broiler and are about to burn. A quick clean up, and perhaps the cleaning product is left out, the pizzas are served, but the six year old has to be checked for a fever, hopefully nobody feeds the babies anything they will choke on while the 6 year old is put to rest on the couch, with a pot to vomit in. Hopefully, a well meaning 8 year old does not take the cleaning product to the babies’ sticky trays while the babies are still in them. And hopefully nobody releases the babies while an adult is trying to make sure the 6 year old is ok.

There are ways to make this safer, such as having a baby area where only baby toys are allowed, but this requires setup, which is tough in a home, once again used 24/7. The best way would be with a station system, rules for is allowed to join each station, and dividing sister moms and brother dads to be responsible for various stations, I think. But the home is going to look like a huge classroom and a maze of baby gates. It wouldn’t look like a home.

As a teacher knows, planning is a proactive way to prevent problems, but it is much harder with so many different ages. I think the homeschool curriculum pretty much is designed to teach all ages (or not teach all ages IMO) and there are some things you could get many ages engaged in, like some food prep, some art projects, some gross motor activities such as a follow the leader game where oldest kids carry babies, but there is a huge difference in what can keep babies, toddlers, 4-6 year olds, etc. engaged and out of trouble. All day long. No cafeteria period. No separate gym teacher. No clean up crew after the food prep or art projects.

So, even with full organizational and child management training, and an organized physical area where the children are expected to stay, perhaps divided into stations, the number of children that can realistically be supervised in a home is fewer than the number in a classroom, IMO.
 
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Amy Duggar backs cousin Jana after Josh was found guilty of child *advertiser censored* charges | Daily Mail Online

Amy Duggar King took to social media Saturday to issue support for her cousin, Jana Duggar, who is battling a child endangerment charge in Arkansas, hours after the family was hit by the child *advertiser censored* conviction of Josh Duggar.

'I will call out what is right and I will call out what is wrong,' Amy, 35, wrote in an Instagram Story referring to Jana on Saturday, December 11. 'This couldn't have been intentional. Thank God the child was OK and found!'

She went to say that Jana was watching multiple children at the time of the incident and was likely exhausted. Further details of the allegations against Duggar have yet to emerge, although they'll likely be explained when she heads to court next month.

I bet you were exhausted, stressed and just emotionally worn out,' Amy said. 'Watching multiple kids is hard! Bc there's so many of them and you only have two eyes! It's a very sad situation going on and my heart goes out to @janamduggar love you.'
 
Amy Duggar backs cousin Jana after Josh was found guilty of child *advertiser censored* charges | Daily Mail Online

Amy Duggar King took to social media Saturday to issue support for her cousin, Jana Duggar, who is battling a child endangerment charge in Arkansas, hours after the family was hit by the child *advertiser censored* conviction of Josh Duggar.

'I will call out what is right and I will call out what is wrong,' Amy, 35, wrote in an Instagram Story referring to Jana on Saturday, December 11. 'This couldn't have been intentional. Thank God the child was OK and found!'

She went to say that Jana was watching multiple children at the time of the incident and was likely exhausted. Further details of the allegations against Duggar have yet to emerge, although they'll likely be explained when she heads to court next month.

I bet you were exhausted, stressed and just emotionally worn out,' Amy said. 'Watching multiple kids is hard! Bc there's so many of them and you only have two eyes! It's a very sad situation going on and my heart goes out to @janamduggar love you.'
Michelle Duggar needs to raise her own children.
 

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