Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #2

[FacelessPodcast]

Nic, not sure I understand this: "Funnily enough, my POI IS from a devoutly religious background. Obviously, military too. Two forms of supplication."

Supplication?

As in, two forms obedience / following rules. Just a throwaway line!

 

[CornerStore]

I wonder if Yu Masaki fits the profile for this case? He was in Japan at the time.

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[fridaybaker]

As in, two forms obedience / following rules. Just a throwaway line!

Ah! Thanks.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

I.C.K.
Ice Cream Killer?
rbbm.

Japan offers US$200k for help solving Setagaya murders, 20 years on

The Miyazawa family were slaughtered in their home on New Year’s Eve 2000 in a case that shocked the nation, but despite the killer leaving a host of clues, nobody has ever been arrested.

www.scmp.com

View attachment 475753

Julian Ryall 2020
“It was a combination of things that caught the attention of the public and the media, including the killings taking place on New Year’s Eve, which is meant to be a time of peace and families being together,” he told the South China Morning Post.''

''Instead of taking cash or other valuables that were in the house, however, the assailant helped himself to food from the freezer, took a nap on the living room sofa and used the family computer.''
View attachment 475752
The attacker’s shoes may hold a key to his identity. Photo: Handout

Liking the acronym for the killer. ICK. After all, he stayed comfortably in the home for a prolonged period of time after the murders, with the bodies present. He ate four ice creams. Peculiar indeed. ICK, like the GSK… will be found. It is only a matter of time. Every day is critical, and all it takes is one solid lead, one good clue aligned with the evidence collected from the scene. I welcome that day.

On WS, we have witnessed many a killer uncovered, arrested, and prosecuted decades after the murder. This too, shall follow their lead and the person responsible will be held accountable.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Looking at those shoes again, I have to think that if anyone had seen the photos of them put out by LE, any close associate of the killer would make the connection. Unless he bought a shoe specifically for committing the crime, and bought a brand he doesn't normally wear, of course. They're distinctive, though. Even among a young group who would maybe normally wear them I'd think there'd be a connection made.

I'm not sure I agree. Would anyone notice in the tennis club? Assuming these American kids are following the local news? Would this be a topic of conversation? I'm not saying nobody on a base of thousands of people would be following Japanese news / current events. Just that I don't think a pair of sneakers would be noticed.

Even if we put aside the USAF son theory. There are plenty of Japanese people I've met who've never heard of this case. I think there's every chance he could've cleaned off the shoes and worn them for the next decade and gotten away with it. Although it makes far more sense for him to simply toss them the second he can.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

dotr: The Ice Cream Killer! Wow. That's the best one yet. At least for an American audience. They will eat it up. (No pun intended!) A Japanese audience, however? Not sure.

I wholeheartedly concur!! Love the acronym!! Rolls off the tongue like GSK…great job! ICK was birthed by a WS!!!

 

[FrankyCentaur]

"Anyway, onto my mistake. A direct family member or friend of the victim not wanting to talk isn’t suspicious. Them rejecting an offer for financial help to process evidence isn’t suspicious. Them not clearing up statements to the public that cast a shadow of suspicion on them is in itself not suspicious.
When I attempted to speak to friends related to the victim in the crime I mentioned, I could not grasp why they wouldn’t want to talk to me. Beyond the crime, I wanted to give the victim a voice and show who she was, and no one would talk about her. Why wouldn’t best friends want the world to know how great of a person she was? Why wouldn’t someone want to clear the air of any suspicion towards them?

The one friend who I did speak with a few times laid it out pretty well. Talking about it hurts. Thinking about it hurts. Even with an opportunity to lend a hand and potentially solve the crime, it’s just too painful.

And that’s really it. Could Yasuko’s sister open the house for DNA collection and have it be analyzed overseas, and potentially locate a suspect? Absolutely, and that would be fantastic. Is it at all weird that she won’t? No. Some family and friends need to accept what happened in order to deal with it. They don’t let their minds return, they don’t want to get their hopes up by the promise of help from others. Clearing up anything that the public, such as us, may think is suspicious about them will do nothing but drag them back into a place they never want to be again. I'm absolutely sure they want the crime solved, but I’m also sure they want to think about it as little as possible."

I appreciate your sentiments here @FrankyCentaur. With absolutely no disrespect intended, there are a few things here I have to take issue with. It's not as simple as respecting Ann's need for privacy or not wanting to talk about it. Those things are fundamentals and I hope you'll give me enough credit to not assume I don't like her because she turned down interviews several times. I wouldn't afford the greatest respect to the Miyazawa family but then not extend it to her.

Firstly, there things in this particular situation that I've not been able to share publicly. I apologise for the vagueness of this, I just want to make it clear that I'm not simply 'suspicious' of her because she wouldn't speak to me for the podcast. Secondly, with respect, you are wrong about her not wanting to speak about the case. She has authored books. She lectures on surviving grief re: this case. She invited the assembled national press into the Miyazawa's house in order to talk about this case in full view of the nation. In that instance, she made it clear she wanted this case to be solved no matter what. Whether she speaks to me or not is immaterial. What is not immaterial is that there may still be traces of the killer's DNA in that empty house which could be sent off privately for testing to find out more about him. This is something unavailable to the TMPD for legal reasons but not her. What is not immaterial is that beyond the TMPD, there are other avenues to catching the murderer if he has, indeed, left Japan.

I have nothing but sympathy for her personally and I respect her a great deal. The fact remains, some of the actions here do not make sense. And I say that without any judgement or expectation on how someone ought to survive horror.

Just to clear up anything, I greatly enjoyed your podcast and immensely respect you and your work, and I know your comments are always coming from a good place. Also, my comment was speaking to everyone here; I saw many comments calling her actions shady and implying that must mean they are hiding something.

And of course, not every case is one to one, not every victim acts the same way, etc. I just wanted to put out from my experience, it can be extremely difficult to see things from a victims point of view because we ourselves aren’t in that situation. It’s very easy to say, “if this was my family, I’d do this or that,” when the reality is, we don’t know how we’d react in those situations.

I wasn’t aware of how open she’s actually been to the public. I’ll say, again from experience, it can be extremely difficult to get a person related to a victim to understand where you’re coming from. No matter how respectful you approach it, no matter how much empathy you show, or money you offer put towards solving it, they can still view you as someone it in for fame or fortune. The idea of someone like myself, completely unrelated to the victim in any way, having genuine care was completely foreign.

(I’d like to think that’s changing over time, in general, not necessarily related to true crime.)

On the note of things I wish would be cleared up, the “thud” sound- that implies that the perpetrator put the attic stairs back up after the crime- was it found to still be up when LE arrived?

 

[AnyNameIWish]

Re: the Ojizō-san flyer,

It is asking for information, on info about the manufacturer, import, or where it was sold.

It just says that it was found along 4-chome of Setagayaku 世田谷区, Kami Soshigaya 上祖師谷, Sengawa 仙川 on 2001 (平成 13) April 9. (In Japan they call years based on the emperor, when emperor dies you get a new reset and start with year 1... it is currently Reiwa 令和 year 6.)

The Flyer then gives the dimensions of the item.

Total it is 59cm high, 19.5kg
Jizō is 50cm, 12.5kg
Base height 11cm, diameter 22cm, 7kg

(It annoys me that 50+11=61cm, not 59cm, but that's just me, perhaps. )

The engraving (emphasized in red) is character 六, six, it seems they are also looking for info on this.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Re: the Ojizō-san flyer,

It is asking for information, on info about the manufacturer, import, or where it was sold.

It just says that it was found along 4-chome of Setagayaku 世田谷区, Kami Soshigaya 上祖師谷, Sengawa 仙川 on 2001 (平成 13) April 9. (In Japan they call years based on the emperor, when emperor dies you get a new reset and start with year 1... it is currently Reiwa 令和 year 6.)

The Flyer then gives the dimensions of the item.

Total it is 59cm high, 19.5kg
Jizō is 50cm, 12.5kg
Base height 11cm, diameter 22cm, 7kg

(It annoys me that 50+11=61cm, not 59cm, but that's just me, perhaps. )

The engraving (emphasized in red) is character 六, six, it seems they are also looking for info on this.

Thank you!

So I’m assuming that’s the Sen River in the address which flowed right behind the house. The address I think was in 3-chome

 

[Nate_Bro]

Have they done any kind of genealogical research on the DNA the perp left?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Have they done any kind of genealogical research on the DNA the perp left?

This is covered at length throughout the thread. But in a nutshell: no, there is no legal framework in Japan for using DNA in a police investigation outside of matching it 1:1 to the offender database.

 

[AnyNameIWish]

@Nate_Bro definitely try to make some time to listen to the podcast... unfortunately, in Japan there are huge limitations on using dna genealogy to solve crimes. That's the whole crux of this issue at this time. They can match DNA to someone who they already know (like fingerprint) but they're not legally allowed to use DNA to match to others/build a family tree relationship like they have done with the Golden State Killer or accused killer Kohberger.

(IMO, ice cream killer to me, I do not like. It takes away from the brutality and horrific nature of the actions taken by this monster and it boils it down to him eating ice cream from their freezer. Moo.)

 

[AnyNameIWish]

Sen River in the address which flowed right behind the house.

Yes! 川=Kawa or Gawa, means river. Sen River.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

@Nate_Bro definitely try to make some time to listen to the podcast... unfortunately, in Japan there are huge limitations on using dna genealogy to solve crimes. That's the whole crux of this issue at this time. They can match DNA to someone who they already know (like fingerprint) but they're not legally allowed to use DNA to match to others/build a family tree relationship like they have done with the Golden State Killer or accused killer Kohberger.

(IMO, ice cream killer to me, I do not like. It takes away from the brutality and horrific nature of the actions taken by this monster and it boils it down to him eating ice cream from their freezer. Moo.)

I thank everyone for their name suggestions! Very kind, as ever.

We’ve chosen a name and a title (none from the list I’m afraid!)

 

[fridaybaker]

Wow. You are moving along. That's great!

 

[tes1984]

This is covered at length throughout the thread. But in a nutshell: no, there is no legal framework in Japan for using DNA in a police investigation outside of matching it 1:1 to the offender database.

What about finding similar unsolved US crimes, in the states you think the perp returned to?

If you have a direct connection with the chief investigator in Japan, then you could ask him to put the DNA profile forward for comparison to a 'similar' case. It would be difficult for any US police force to refuse a request from the top man in Japan.

Once the profile is on the US system, doesn't it become eligible for genealogical databases etc? I think at this stage, you might also be able to pay independent genealogists to find some sort of a familial match.

 

[Charlot123]

Unless he's angry at his father and resentful of his father's religion but can't counter him (whether from fear or from a paradoxical desire to still please his dad or both). I almost wonder if he wants his dad to choose him for once instead of the military or God and so in a messed up way, if his dad suspected anything, it would be a way of forcing him to decide whether to protect him or choose his career or religion over him too. Leaving the statue could be a way of dealing with feelings like "okay, he chose me, but nothing is actually fixed by what I did."

Obvs I doubt any teenager was capable of like, thinking rationally or like this about it, but I dunno, I was raised in a fundie house and a lot of kids did tend to act out (I resented my parents always saying they'd choose me being murdered in front of them over them denying God; it was a weirdly frequent topic of conversation). Though granted the acting out wasn't murder and tended to be more typical teenage things. I've also worked with teenage offenders before and, while religion wasn't the focus here, one of them definitely kept escalating his (violent) behaviors in an attempt to get his dad's attention even if he never seemed to realize it. His dad was very Important and was able to protect him through the first... double-digits number of offenses. When he finally crossed the line into "dad can't bail you out," I just remember him crying, "Dad, look at me. Dad please look at me." His father did not look at him.

I realize this is wild speculation and borderline fiction about the psychology of someone I know nothing about besides religion and military, who may not even be the POI, and whether any offender left the Jizo statue can't be known. But if, if, I could see this kind of twisted desperation. But if it was a kid, logic probably is twisted at best, and I can see how a perfect storm of circumstances like extreme religion and a military context could lead to this. Granted, it's extreme, but.

JMO - I think the kids in fundie houses do exactly the same as in nonfundie ones, but later. In college, their active partying starts at the time when everyone stops. They might have more dire consequences because of this. My feeling, instead of breaking the kids over religion, one can bring a rebellious teenager to a religious group feeding the poor on Sundays, with better results, but some parents are rigid.
However, while the Setagaya killer's
Y-DNA does not yet persuade me that he is Korean and not Japanese, Christianity is more prevalent in Korea, and Shinto/Buddhism in Japan. I just don't feel he is Shinto/Buddhist, those religions teach more personal responsibility and the concept of karma exists in Japan, although not of reincarnation. Christianity is more about the concept of repentance and forgiveness. Historically, big-time murderer might convert from Buddhism to Christianity (or return back to Christianity when caught if they were lapsed Christians), but I never heard of the opposite happening, a Christian murderer converting to Buddhism. As a Buddhist, he can't escape karma. As a repentant Christian, he has hope.

About the murderer's current persuasion, religion, much depends on emotional makeup. The ability to feel "transcendence" correlates with highly emotional states. I don't want to specifically make it about religion, but if i were to guess, he was struggling with religion in his youth, is more religious now, a Christian, and statistically, it makes him more likely to be a Korean or a Filipino than Japanese or Chinese. JMO.

As in, two forms obedience / following rules. Just a throwaway line!

Not necessarily obedience. Both army and religiosity meet certain OCD tendencies. Army = routine and predictability, Religion = rituals.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Just to clear up anything, I greatly enjoyed your podcast and immensely respect you and your work, and I know your comments are always coming from a good place. Also, my comment was speaking to everyone here; I saw many comments calling her actions shady and implying that must mean they are hiding something.

And of course, not every case is one to one, not every victim acts the same way, etc. I just wanted to put out from my experience, it can be extremely difficult to see things from a victims point of view because we ourselves aren’t in that situation. It’s very easy to say, “if this was my family, I’d do this or that,” when the reality is, we don’t know how we’d react in those situations.

I wasn’t aware of how open she’s actually been to the public. I’ll say, again from experience, it can be extremely difficult to get a person related to a victim to understand where you’re coming from. No matter how respectful you approach it, no matter how much empathy you show, or money you offer put towards solving it, they can still view you as someone it in for fame or fortune. The idea of someone like myself, completely unrelated to the victim in any way, having genuine care was completely foreign.

(I’d like to think that’s changing over time, in general, not necessarily related to true crime.)

On the note of things I wish would be cleared up, the “thud” sound- that implies that the perpetrator put the attic stairs back up after the crime- was it found to still be up when LE arrived?

Noted, Franky

Yes, I believe the stairs were folded back up. We know he walked around the house a lot and given that these stairs/ladder would have been in the way, it makes sense that he folded it back up for space.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

What about finding similar unsolved US crimes, in the states you think the perp returned to?

If you have a direct connection with the chief investigator in Japan, then you could ask him to put the DNA profile forward for comparison to a 'similar' case. It would be difficult for any US police force to refuse a request from the top man in Japan.

Once the profile is on the US system, doesn't it become eligible for genealogical databases etc? I think at this stage, you might also be able to pay independent genealogists to find some sort of a familial match.

There are a handful of other family murders in this vein around the world but none that I know of that match the conditions and timeframe of the Setagaya case. Of course, it's possible that the killer struck again but changed his MO after Setagaya -- there's just no way to know that for us, though. Unless he leaves behind a trove of evidence again like he did in this case. And we can bet that he won't want to ever again bleed all over another crime scene etc.

The TMPD won't be doing anything with the killer's DNA profile because, in a nutshell, it is not legal for them to do so. They have to think about the end game in court. It would be like contacting psychics in the US for their view on this. Ultimately, the judge in the Tokyo court would have to appraise something legally invalid. That's why they can't share the DNA with US authorities (assuming they even want to). For this reason, Chief Tsuchita is campaigning to change the laws / bring awareness to this problem. Until that law changes, DNA is essentially useless in this case. Unless, of course, the killer commits another crime in Japan and they swab him at a police station.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

JMO - I think the kids in fundie houses do exactly the same as in nonfundie ones, but later. In college, their active partying starts at the time when everyone stops. They might have more dire consequences because of this. My feeling, instead of breaking the kids over religion, one can bring a rebellious teenager to a religious group feeding the poor on Sundays, with better results, but some parents are rigid.
However, while the Setagaya killer's
Y-DNA does not yet persuade me that he is Korean and not Japanese, Christianity is more prevalent in Korea, and Shinto/Buddhism in Japan. I just don't feel he is Shinto/Buddhist, those religions teach more personal responsibility and the concept of karma exists in Japan, although not of reincarnation. Christianity is more about the concept of repentance and forgiveness. Historically, big-time murderer might convert from Buddhism to Christianity (or return back to Christianity when caught if they were lapsed Christians), but I never heard of the opposite happening, a Christian murderer converting to Buddhism. As a Buddhist, he can't escape karma. As a repentant Christian, he has hope.

About the murderer's current persuasion, religion, much depends on emotional makeup. The ability to feel "transcendence" correlates with highly emotional states. I don't want to specifically make it about religion, but if i were to guess, he was struggling with religion in his youth, is more religious now, a Christian, and statistically, it makes him more likely to be a Korean or a Filipino than Japanese or Chinese. JMO.



Not necessarily obedience. Both army and religiosity meet certain OCD tendencies. Army = routine and predictability, Religion = rituals.

If I were to guess, and it is a complete guess, the killer would be nominally Christian - go through the motions, make all the right sounds, but in his heart there is nothing but himself.