Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #2

[penelopeb]

Late to the party here - thank you for your posts @BatataPoha! Very insightful. Had some comments:

2]This might not have been the killer’s first break in and entering.

I actually agree with you on this, and wonder if the killer had broken into the Miyazawa home before the murders when they’ve not been around. Mostly because of Rei (I’ll come to this, you’ve already touched on it). We do know that all the Miyazawas went shopping before dinner that day and the house would have been empty. But I think he’d been watching them for a while and would have had other opportunities to break in too.

1] The first kill (Rei) was planned and executed just as the killer wanted.

I’ve always wondered how or if he knew that was the kids’ bedroom. And why he broke in even though the lights were on downstairs so he knew at least one person was still up. Wouldn't it have made more sense to begin the attack when everyone was asleep? 11pm isn't that late at all, especially on the weekend. He was taking a huge risk attacking at this time imo.

However, if he had broken in previously then he knew the balcony would lead him to the kids first. If he had been watching the family, he knew that Mikio being a workaholic perhaps kept late hours and went to bed last. Maybe he waited for the kids to be put to bed. And Yasuko to go to sleep in the attic. (Whether he knew Niina would be with her, who knows.) With Mikio on the first floor, the entire family were separated and couldn't put up a coordinated fight. So he started the attack just before Mikio's bedtime to make sure the family remained separated throughout and for his plan to go off without a hitch.

Which of course it didn't. But it would explain why Rei was strangled, to keep the element of surprise. And why he attacked at around 11pm, relatively early in the night when folks would still be up and he could've been spotted, and when the lights were still on. JMO.

As an aside: I think about Yasuko a lot. Was she frozen in fear upstairs while listening to the attack on Mikio? Or was she fast asleep with Niina? Even if there was no screaming, we all agree that the noise of the grappling between two men and then one of them falling down the stairs would have been loud enough to be heard through the walls by the neighbours much less someone right above. And if she was asleep and was caught totally off guard by the attack on her, then the Iries not hearing anything in the dead of sleep would make sense too, would it not? If she was awake, then she'd have also been listening as the killer came up the steps for her and Niina. There would have been nowhere to go, nowhere to hide. Absolutely bone-chilling to think about.

2] The document search was staged.

I believe so as well. He's just continuing his rampage of destruction. He threw some things in the toilet too (I believe Yasuko's handbag and the contents of it?) If he pooped on top of those things, it could explain why he didn't bother flushing.

5] My last one - The killer might be used to seeing blood in daily life.

Good point! But you wonder how a teenager could have such exposure to dead bodies and blood and gore. It absolutely didn't phase him at all.

 

[Charlot123]

About blood and dead bodies - if he, indeed, used to torture/abuse animals, then it is just another step. I think it is the death itself that is difficult to process, not the blood per se. I think he had some experience with something/someone dying; it should have been enough.

 

[Sor Juana]

His handkerchief, prompting the idea of him being from the fish industry. Him covering his victims, maybe even symmetrical placement of them. I don’t think these were strict rituals, just idiosyncratic behaviors. It is hard to see “methodical” in the killer because the scene is disorganized, only there may be traits of organization there. The dude is a planner. Maybe these traces of sands mean nothing but traces of prior childhood OCD, when he was gathering sands.

The theory about OCD is quite intriguing. OCD is often associated with ASD, and outbursts of violence are commonly linked to OCD. Worth considering, imho.

Regarding the sand, it’s my understanding that the small bum bag was purchased a couple of years earlier in Tokyo. My hypothesis about the sand in the bag points towards the fishing industry and cash transactions.

If the killer was involved in a family fishing business - either a shop or a fishing enterprise - he would likely have been cutting fish and selling part of the catch for cash. This could suggest a small, family-run fishing operation where customers could buy fresh fish. Handling fish and cash in such an environment would naturally lead to sand transfer. The sand could have adhered to their hands during fish processing and subsequently to the cash.

The presence of only two types of sand suggests that the activity was localised and narrowed down to certain area, with the fish being caught, unloaded on a sandy surface, and then moved to the market. The bum bag was primarily used to store cash, so it’s plausible that the killer handled banknotes with sand on them.

The sashimi knife, the fish cutting technique, the sand, and the sweater with DIVE written on it - all these elements fit the profile of someone associated with fish or fishing. My intuition tells me that the killer was likely a fish handler, well, at least part-time. He vanished just like a fish slipping away. JMO.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Regarding the sand, it’s my understanding that the small bum bag was purchased a couple of years earlier in Tokyo. My hypothesis about the sand in the bag points towards the fishing industry and cash transactions.

RSMB: The bumbag was neither small, nor purchased in Tokyo. We don't know where it was purchased. It was produced between September 95 to January 99 and was on sale throughout Japan. It was *wearable* on the waist but would have looked pretty oversized, particularly on the killer given his slim frame. I've seen nothing that points towards the TMPD considering the bag connected to fishing--though they have explicitly said they believe the killer was a student.

If the killer was involved in a family fishing business - either a shop or a fishing enterprise - he would likely have been cutting fish and selling part of the catch for cash. This could suggest a small, family-run fishing operation where customers could buy fresh fish. Handling fish and cash in such an environment would naturally lead to sand transfer. The sand could have adhered to their hands during fish processing and subsequently to the cash.

I don't follow how being involved in a family fishing business could lead to sand transfer when that sand is from a military base in California on the other side of the world? Also, 24 years ago, Japan was essentially entirely cash-based.

The presence of only two types of sand suggests that the activity was localised and narrowed down to certain area, with the fish being caught, unloaded on a sandy surface, and then moved to the market. The bum bag was primarily used to store cash, so it’s plausible that the killer handled banknotes with sand on them.

As you can see, the bag is pretty big for the primary purpose of containing cash.

The sashimi knife, the fish cutting technique, the sand, and the sweater with DIVE written on it - all these elements fit the profile of someone associated with fish or fishing. My intuition tells me that the killer was likely a fish handler, well, at least part-time. He vanished just like a fish slipping away. JMO.

Though I don't share this intuition, he could quite possibly have been a fish handler. That would also make scars or injuries on his hands seem normal. But the DIVE sweater belonged to Mikio, not the killer. He stole it before leaving.

 

[Incoherent]

Re: the sweater, it was Mikio’s and here is a picture of him wearing it. It was allegedly stolen and worn by the killer after his blood-soaked clothes were all discarded in the living room.

 

[Sor Juana]

The bumbag was neither small, nor purchased in Tokyo. We don't know where it was purchased. It was produced between September 95 to January 99 and was on sale throughout Japan. It was *wearable* on the waist but would have looked pretty oversized, particularly on the killer given his slim frame. I've seen nothing that points towards the TMPD considering the bag connected to fishing--though they have explicitly said they believe the killer was a student.

RSBM. The bags were sold across Kanto region (covers seven prefectures) and the Kanto region contains Tokyo. Indeed, the killer could get the bag from anywhere across Kanto but one could place some weight on the theory that it was Tokyo (where he resided). Given the killer's young age, he was probably a student. Many students also work part-time. Regarding the bag, I personally don't think such a bag would have been common for schooling in 2000. Possibly, the killer had used this bag for purposes other than his studies. Just my opinion. Even primary school pupils typically have more solid backpacks full of stuff. The killer's bag didn't seem to contain much. Here is the typical size of a student's school bag in Japan. The killer might have had another bag for school or college, larger.

I hope this case gets resolved soon so we can finally learn the truth.

 

[Sor Juana]

Re: the sweater, it was Mikio’s and here is a picture of him wearing it. It was allegedly stolen and worn by the killer after his blood-soaked clothes were all discarded in the living room.

Yes, I know the sweater was Mikio's and the killer stole it. We discussed this a few pages back. My point is that, out of all of Mikio's clothes, he chose this particular one - not the navy blue one or any other, but the one with the fish theme.

 

[Sor Juana]

I don't follow how being involved in a family fishing business could lead to sand transfer when that sand is from a military base in California on the other side of the world? Also, 24 years ago, Japan was essentially entirely cash-based.

This particular theme appears to be quite sensitive, as I can sense. While I do have an answer to this, we are limited in this thread regarding the extent and nature of the reasoning we can share. I certainly do not wish to appear as if I'm arguing with a verified author, as that is part of our restrictions. Therefore, I would prefer not to delve further into this topic. Thank you for your understanding.

 

[maamager]

The theory about OCD is quite intriguing. OCD is often associated with ASD, and outbursts of violence are commonly linked to OCD. Worth considering, imho.

snipped

(respectively) curious to why you think asd is relevant here. there’s absolutely no evidence that those with asd are any more violent than anyone else. and while ocd and asd are more common to manifest together moreso than in the neurotypical, it still accounts for around 15%. i’m not seeing how this moves the needle here. at all. very risky territory

 

[Sor Juana]

Post #21

For your convenience, here is a link to the clothing articles. It appears that a few items were only sold in the Kanto region.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

RSBM: Yes, I imagine the killer here will have an equally stupid reason for doing what he did. Though, of course, stupid to me -- in his own mind, his loathing probably felt very real. My guess here is that the Miyazawas were surrogates for his own rage, that they essentially 'did nothing wrong'. This is assuming the killer would even be able to articulate it. Many serial killers will spout some kind of divine mission from God or whatever BS to narrativise their acts, when in reality they simply felt a mix of deep sexual inferiority / hatred of women etc.

On the back of that, allow me a tangent. I went to a pretty bad school and random acts of violence were almost never caused by anything directly. But when you looked at the kids doing it, there were usually underlying core reasons at home. This, in turn, created a culture of violence and kids who started off studying hard and behaving well, ended up imitating that societal baseline to fit in. As an 11-year-old, the idea of breaking the rules or doing anything much outside of reading my book at break-time would have horrified me. By 15, you're spray-painting a 30-foot penis across your school entrance at midnight for no reason and cutting class to day drink. (The reasoning for it, at least with your friends, is because it's 'funny' but the true reason, deep down, is to reclaim the power you feel you have lost).

So, to bring this all back to our killer here, there are obviously a multitude of reasons why men kill, even if victims unknown to them are very rare. But if I were a betting man, I would say that the killer had some power removed from him in some way, he had control removed from him. And these murders were a way of 'regaining' the ultimate power. Of telling someone / or the world, 'you don't know who you're messing with'. This would have felt important, most likely, because deep down, they were actually just a terrified little boy caught between a supreme arrogance and paralysing insecurity. Obviously, all my own riffing, and completely separate from my POI. All JMO.


Totally agree. And to be clear re: the POI. I find the information stacked up pretty convincing on its own merit. But it's also simply the case that there is no other convincing POI on any level so far. Even the theoreticals absent a person feel thin in comparison. But the second something more solid or credible comes along, I'm happy to drop this guy. My opinion changes as the evidence does, as it must!

Along that line of thinking is there any feasible way for police to survey the nearby high schools or universities to see if there are any male suspects that may fit the suspect’s potential age range, military background and travel/living history that may have failed an exam, been expelled or had their parents called, etc. around the times of the murders? Perhaps such events could be a source of rage? Or if the schools’ admin, teachers or staff had a student that concerned them and exhibited violent tendencies or anger/rage towards others?

Along those lines could they ask the nearby air base something similar about possible officers or young adults who have recently been demoted, or their parents who are in the Air Force have just divorced or separated or perhaps he was banished or sent to the US or away from home due to behavioral issue or problem with them?

Just speculation or a thought

Also terrifying to think how determined how this killer was to jump on the car to reach the balcony or the bathroom window. I wonder if is it possible that the killer has a history of sneaking in and out of his own home, which may look similar to the Miyazawa’s or if he had broken into other people’s homes in Japan or in Tokyo or in that neighborhood in particular? I also wonder if the killer has a history of stalking and how long had he been thinking of targeting the Miyazawa’s and scoped out their house beforehand?

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

I think "very lucky escape" is more accurate. And as I've discussed at length throughout this thread, there are 12,000 people on Yokota AFB, all of which can access healthcare or medical attention without Japan having any inkling. That's just one base of the many throughout the islands. But even ignoring the possibility of US military bases, we know that the TMPD questioned and fingerprinted thousands upon thousands of men in hospitals (or recently released from hospitals) in the days after the murders. From what I've heard, several had presented themselves seeking medical attention for cuts. As there have been zero arrests, we can conclude either these cuts were unrelated. Or possibly the killer got extremely lucky again and no records were taken. Given this would have been on New Year's Day or thereabouts in the holiday season, such a scenario isn't beyond the realms of possibility. We see this in the Tobu-Nikko incident at the train station, too.

Is it possible that the perp’s mother or father have a background in medicine or nursing and they possibly stitched and treated the wound? I have a grandmother who would do that for us when we visited her in her home country.

Then again this is knife wound so the perp’s parent would likely need access to antibiotics and fluids and such so maybe unfortunately my thought process isn’t as realistic as I had speculated.

The TMPD DVD on the case also shows this. The documents found in the bathtub were Mikio’s, Yasuko’s, and those that include the whole family.

A part of me wonders if it possible that he was rummaging through the drawers and documents because he wanted to learn about or get some insight into the lives of his victims, the Miyazawas, or if he was looking for something in particular like an address of a former neighbor, babysitter or relative that he was familiar with and searching for or stalking/threatening? Or perhaps he was aware that the family planned to eventually move like the rest of the neighbors and looking for any property they might own or move to because he planned to hide there and escape his own life?

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

I wonder if it means anything that he picked the sweater with the English alphabet on it and an English word, dive, on it?

The idea of the killer being picky about which clothes he would steal makes me wonder if he was vain or really into maintaining his image via style, even in that moment?


Definitely reminds me of the fanny packs I would see my father or tourists would wear. I can imagine the killer’s parents may recognize it too.

 

[Incoherent]

View attachment 506966 View attachment 506967
RSBM. The bags were sold across Kanto region (covers seven prefectures) and the Kanto region contains Tokyo. Indeed, the killer could get the bag from anywhere across Kanto but one could place some weight on the theory that it was Tokyo (where he resided). Given the killer's young age, he was probably a student. Many students also work part-time. Regarding the bag, I personally don't think such a bag would have been common for schooling in 2000. Possibly, the killer had used this bag for purposes other than his studies. Just my opinion. Even primary school pupils typically have more solid backpacks full of stuff. The killer's bag didn't seem to contain much. Here is the typical size of a student's school bag in Japan. The killer might have had another bag for school or college, larger.
View attachment 506972
I hope this case gets resolved soon so we can finally learn the truth.

That particular type of bag is called a randoseru, and is gifted to a child when they begin elementary school and they use it until they finish grade 6 which is 11-12 years old.
After that they use their school or sports branded bags beginning in Junior High School which are just regular sports bags and backpacks, and some can have a hard casing, but not randoseru as pictured. Those are for younger kids. Kids out of elementary can choose what they like including hip bags.

Given the age of the lower limit is 15 I think we can say a hip bag such as the one found would be perfectly useable for a student to carry books, pens, etc. Perhaps more suited for a college student though but still a student.

 

[Incoherent]

Is it possible that the perp’s mother or father have a background in medicine or nursing and they possibly stitched and treated the wound? I have a grandmother who would do that for us when we visited her in her home country.

Then again this is knife wound so the perp’s parent would likely need access to antibiotics and fluids and such so maybe unfortunately my thought process isn’t as realistic as I had speculated.

I think it’s very reasonable to assume someone with military background would know how to treat such a wound, and as mentioned before there would be access to care on the base too without it being recorded in Japan. So I don’t think your thoughts are unreasonable here.

A part of me wonders if it possible that he was rummaging through the drawers and documents because he wanted to learn about or get some insight into the lives of his victims, the Miyazawas, or if he was looking for something in particular like an address of a former neighbor, babysitter or relative that he was familiar with and searching for or stalking/threatening? Or perhaps he was aware that the family planned to eventually move like the rest of the neighbors and looking for any property they might own or move to because he planned to hide there and escape his own life?

The documents dumped in the bathtub were also torn up, not just thrown in there. He physically ripped a lot of them before throwing them in. And then turned the water on and filled the tub.

There’s a lot of speculation here as to whether he was searching for something or not. Given he didn’t even take half the amount of money laying around and left the rest, it makes you wonder what he was doing moving all those draws and documents about the place and if that was his focus after the murders. Or whether he was just searching for the sake of it and throwing things about as he came across them.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Post #21

For your convenience, here is a link to the clothing articles. It appears that a few items were only sold in the Kanto region.

What you are posting is the translated police information appeal (revised second edition compiled by Seijo PD). As you can see, the translation isn't great. But this is moot because the latest TMPD information on the hip bag is that it was on sale nationwide. Posted for your convenience:

ヒップバッグとマフラーの特徴は？　警視庁

RE: the killer choosing the DIVE sweatshirt. If he had chosen a Lacoste shirt, would he have wrestled crocodiles? Again, I'm not saying there's zero chance the killer was involved in the fishing industry. I'm just trying to understand what we see here that supports that when we don't know he didn't just pick up the first clean sweatshirt he found.

As for not thinking it's a school bag, you are entirely free to disagree with me. That's something I've always welcomed. What I find puzzling is rejecting the TMPD's notion that it is literally a school bag. Similarly puzzled by the idea that the sand is a "sensitive" topic for me, when I've spoken openly about it for years now. At any rate, I'm happy to discontinue that topic with you, and all others. Thank you for your contributions here, very much appreciated.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Re: the sweater, it was Mikio’s and here is a picture of him wearing it. It was allegedly stolen and worn by the killer after his blood-soaked clothes were all discarded in the living room.

View attachment 506961
View attachment 506962

Yes, along with *some of* the cash in the home that night, it's the only thing that's missing from the house.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Along that line of thinking is there any feasible way for police to survey the nearby high schools or universities to see if there are any male suspects that may fit the suspect’s potential age range, military background and travel/living history that may have failed an exam, been expelled or had their parents called, etc. around the times of the murders? Perhaps such events could be a source of rage? Or if the schools’ admin, teachers or staff had a student that concerned them and exhibited violent tendencies or anger/rage towards others?

I know that they did look into the schools extensively and found nothing. Given that they think the killer was between 15-24 on the night of the murders and have explicitly stated he was "living the student lifestyle", I think it's very reasonable to conclude that, if he was going to have some kind of disappointment or preoccupation, that might have sat within his formal education, yes. The fact that they combed the schools and would have been looking for violent students, or students with unexplained injuries, and came up with nothing. They themselves say he was a student. They have fingerprinted over 1 million men in this case, put 280,000+ personnel on the case, so we know it's not for lack of trying. Where is the student, then? It only further supports my theory that his school wasn't available to the TMPD.

Along those lines could they ask the nearby air base something similar about possible officers or young adults who have recently been demoted, or their parents who are in the Air Force have just divorced or separated or perhaps he was banished or sent to the US or away from home due to behavioral issue or problem with them?

In the words of a very prominent author in Japan: "I'm not sure the TMPD would even begin to know where they'd ask for the permissions to approach that US military base, let alone without a name." Perhaps there is some mechanism where the US airforce would allow a foreign police force on to their sovereign soil to start fingerprinting high school kids. But if there is, I don't know of it. What's sad is that I do think they would've found the killer this way...

Just speculation or a thought

Also terrifying to think how determined how this killer was to jump on the car to reach the balcony or the bathroom window. I wonder if is it possible that the killer has a history of sneaking in and out of his own home, which may look similar to the Miyazawa’s or if he had broken into other people’s homes in Japan or in Tokyo or in that neighborhood in particular? I also wonder if the killer has a history of stalking and how long had he been thinking of targeting the Miyazawa’s and scoped out their house beforehand?

I think some sort of antecedents are not just possible but very likely. Now, had he broken into homes in Tokyo before this, he did so without leaving any trace or popping up on the TMPD radar. But given that we know the evidence points to a killer that has been to the other side of the world, it opens up the possibility that these antecedents took place outside of Japan. As for watching the family, I've gone back and forth with this for 15 years now. Sometimes I think it was the Miyazawas themselves that he watched. Others, I think it was possibly the house that he was taken with and they simply happened to be in it. But I always end up on the side of the former. Had the house been entirely isolated, that would be one thing but it was not. Why the Miyazawas and not the Iries? Why not the neighbours opposite?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Is it possible that the perp’s mother or father have a background in medicine or nursing and they possibly stitched and treated the wound? I have a grandmother who would do that for us when we visited her in her home country.

Then again this is knife wound so the perp’s parent would likely need access to antibiotics and fluids and such so maybe unfortunately my thought process isn’t as realistic as I had speculated.

This is definitely possible, yes!

A part of me wonders if it possible that he was rummaging through the drawers and documents because he wanted to learn about or get some insight into the lives of his victims, the Miyazawas, or if he was looking for something in particular like an address of a former neighbor, babysitter or relative that he was familiar with and searching for or stalking/threatening? Or perhaps he was aware that the family planned to eventually move like the rest of the neighbors and looking for any property they might own or move to because he planned to hide there and escape his own life?

Or he was simply curious about who he had just slaughtered. Maybe he wanted to know their names. What they did for a living. Given that he placed some (but not all) of their papers and belongings in the tub and the toilet, it seems strange if he were specifically looking for something to do that. Why not simply dump out each draw on to the floor in turn? There are just so many choices here that we have access to without any context. So, in the end, they become like a Rorschach test of sorts. My feeling is that, if he were looking for something concrete, there would be a logic to that. And if there was a thread of logic to that search, the police would have been to reverse-engineer it.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

That particular type of bag is called a randoseru, and is gifted to a child when they begin elementary school and they use it until they finish grade 6 which is 11-12 years old.
After that they use their school or sports branded bags beginning in Junior High School which are just regular sports bags and backpacks, and some can have a hard casing, but not randoseru as pictured. Those are for younger kids. Kids out of elementary can choose what they like including hip bags.

Given the age of the lower limit is 15 I think we can say a hip bag such as the one found would be perfectly useable for a student to carry books, pens, etc. Perhaps more suited for a college student though but still a student.

Absolutely. And this is one of the few things the detectives have explicitly said about the killer.