Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #2

[Charlot123]

I would also like to reiterate these points. The surroundings of the Miyazawa house are not quiet, secluded, or isolated. It is a busy neighbourhood with families and a lot of people using the parks, tennis courts, skate parks, and children’s play park directly behind the house.
During the day it is noisy. There is a constant flow of traffic on the road behind the house and people walking around.
After going to the house several times already and now living in the neighbourhood next to it, I can quite confidently say that any notion the house was “chosen” for its isolation and the reason the killer went unnoticed are false. Of course, JMO.

People interested in this case seem to forget quite quickly that this neighbourhood is in Tokyo, not some remote village with no one for miles.

He got lucky. Whichever way he entered.

At the time there was a house directly in front occupied, and the other side of the house occupied too.
The bathroom window is on the children’s play park side in direct view of the road and houses there too. There are even houses the other side of the river that look down on that bathroom window.

Whichever way he actually did enter from he ran huge risks of being seen. He just wasn’t. It is part of the reason this case is so remarkable. Being able to murder all 4 of them in a wooden house in a neighbourhood surrounded by houses, and no one to hear or see a thing is quite incredible.

Could it be the date that made him lucky? December 30th. I don't know how it would be in Tokyo, but here, in the US, probably any time between Dec 22 and Jan 1 is good as fewer people stay home. Alternatively, in Post-Soviet Orthodox countries, any time between Dec 31 and Jan 13 is good to break in now. I can only guess, but South Korea would be more like the US.

So what about Tokyo? Some people might celebrate Christmas, not many, but their traditions still might be accommodated by the companies. Definitely most will celebrate NY and maybe, it is bigger that in the West because Christmas is not a majority's holiday. But then, there is also Asian NY that is a floating one, in 2001 it fell on January 24th. Can anyone think of any major holidays between Dec 24, 2000 and Jan 24, 2001 in Japan?

So, maybe some people had merely left for vacations before the NY? Is Tokyo big on vacationing? Could be, in 2001. Wherever I go, I see Japanese tourists, usually, in large groups.

Does anyone know if what I am thinking of (the proximity of the NY and New Century) could have been the factor?

Also, thinking of the base. I would assume that if servicemen fly home to celebrate, it would be before Christmas. And if your poi's family was religious, @FacelessPodcast, I could bet there is a higher chance of them being Episcopalians, although Catholics are possible, too. I would be unsurprised with Buddhists/Shinto, but i see what happens with religious Buddhist West Asians in the US, which way they lean (some, atheist, more, towards a stronger/majority religion. The people holding on traditional family religion would be 4th generation Japanese living in Hawaii, not someone whose family moved to a new country during the time of post/Korean war, this is when, for all practical matters, the Chinese Exclusion act of 1882 really stopped to exist - it is interesting to Google.) So, if the family was to leave the country, before the NY Eve is possible, but unlikely. I would think, any movement on Dec 23-26 is highly unlikely, shortly before the NY is more likely but after the NY is most likely. Thinking of the flights schedule.

 

[dms]

Having the DNA samples, one would assume that the Tokyo police have run them through large DNA databases like Ancestry and MyHeritage to search for the killer's siblings or distant cousins. If such relatives were identified, particularly those of European ancestry through the mother, it could potentially provide better insights into the killer's origins. However, I haven't come across any reports on this specific exploration.

It might be helpful to you to read the previous thread and all of this one, as the things you are arguing have already been discussed ad nauseum.

 

[SteveL]

Having the DNA samples, one would assume that the Tokyo police have run them through large DNA databases like Ancestry and MyHeritage to search for the killer's siblings or distant cousins. If such relatives were identified, particularly those of European ancestry through the mother, it could potentially provide better insights into the killer's origins. However, I haven't come across any reports on this specific exploration.

Please read previous posts and listen to the “Faceless” podcast. Everything you keep bringing up, arguing, and countering has been discussed in great detail.

 

[Incoherent]

Re: the size of the sneakers - I think the phrase “comical” in relation to the killer’s height and weight was a bit over exaggerated on my part lol, but if you see here from the Fuji TV re-creation screen grabs I shared where they used an actor that was the same deduced height and weight and wearing everything the killer wore, the sneaker size does look much too big:


It could be that the sneakers were deliberately too big for his feet, it could be that he just had big feet for his stature, and it could be that he was still growing as the age range given is still of growing age. But really from my side, just an observation.

Could it be the date that made him lucky? December 30th. I don't know how it would be in Tokyo, but here, in the US, probably any time between Dec 22 and Jan 1 is good as fewer people stay home. Alternatively, in Post-Soviet Orthodox countries, any time between Dec 31 and Jan 13 is good to break in now. I can only guess, but South Korea would be more like the US.

So what about Tokyo? Some people might celebrate Christmas, not many, but their traditions still might be accommodated by the companies. Definitely most will celebrate NY and maybe, it is bigger that in the West because Christmas is not a majority's holiday. But then, there is also Asian NY that is a floating one, in 2001 it fell on January 24th. Can anyone think of any major holidays between Dec 24, 2000 and Jan 24, 2001 in Japan?

So, maybe some people had merely left for vacations before the NY? Is Tokyo big on vacationing? Could be, in 2001. Wherever I go, I see Japanese tourists, usually, in large groups.

Does anyone know if what I am thinking of (the proximity of the NY and New Century) could have been the factor?

Also, thinking of the base. I would assume that if servicemen fly home to celebrate, it would be before Christmas. And if your poi's family was religious, @FacelessPodcast, I could bet there is a higher chance of them being Episcopalians, although Catholics are possible, too. I would be unsurprised with Buddhists/Shinto, but i see what happens with religious Buddhist West Asians in the US, which way they lean (some, atheist, more, towards a stronger/majority religion. The people holding on traditional family religion would be 4th generation Japanese living in Hawaii, not someone whose family moved to a new country during the time of post/Korean war, this is when, for all practical matters, the Chinese Exclusion act of 1882 really stopped to exist - it is interesting to Google.) So, if the family was to leave the country, before the NY Eve is possible, but unlikely. I would think, any movement on Dec 23-26 is highly unlikely, shortly before the NY is more likely but after the NY is most likely. Thinking of the flights schedule.

Hi Charlot I think I can help with some of your questions here.

New Year in Japan is very busy because it is a big family affair. Companies here close specifically so that people can be with their families. Any travelling done during this time would have usually only have been done to go back to your family’s house if you didn’t live with them. Vacations are rarely taken during this time.
The streets of Tokyo would have been bustling at this time as people prepare. Traditional meals would be eaten on the 31st that require preparation, decorations and money envelopes need to be bought for younger kids, food and drink over the holiday would be needed before things close for a few days.

The Miyazawa’s shopped the day of the murder, or just before, most likely preparing for this. Their family next door would have also gathered with them on the 31st.
On Jan 1st they would have all likely gone to a temple or shrine to pray for luck, in a tradition called “hatsumode”. Temples and shrines at this time become very congested on the day and day before. Most people do this.

To conclude here, around this time there would have likely been an increase of people in the neighbourhood as people come in, rather than a decrease, as it is a family residential neighbourhood.

It is the one time of the year you can almost guarantee an entire family would have been in one place at the same time.

 

[Charlot123]

Having the DNA samples, one would assume that the Tokyo police have run them through large DNA databases like Ancestry and MyHeritage to search for the killer's siblings or distant cousins. If such relatives were identified, particularly those of European ancestry through the mother, it could potentially provide better insights into the killer's origins. However, I haven't come across any reports on this specific exploration.

Besides other factors, you can not run the samples collected in 2001 through Ancestry or My Heritage - you need to process them again and present in algorithms used in current databases. If Japanese Police contained them well, with PCR technology you can get as much DNA as possible from them, so potentially, they can send DNA all over the world, in all crime labs, but then, as other participants said, see thread one. (((

On the other note, the fathers of Mikio and Yasuko are gone. But if some samples have mixed blood, they'd better collect DNA from both mothers (If I am right, they are still alive) and other relatives, as they may need to phase out admixtures. Unless they keep all Miyazawas DNAs, which I hope they still do. Just on a side note, because you never know.

 

[Skip]

The more I read about this case from various sources, the more I think there was a specific motive. The way the house was ransacked, yet papers were laid across the kitchen table and thrown into the tub, indicates that someone was looking for something. I do wonder how thoroughly any of the contacts of the parents through work were vetted, and if police also checked into the parents of the students, or co-workers' contacts. And if they cross-checked the criminal database with every Japanese citizen's fingerprints, then it's much less likely the POI is even a citizen.

But, that part isn't really clear to me. I'm American, and we're not even fingerprinted here unless you are arrested or have a specific job that requires it (in some states, even teenagers need to be fingerprinted to work with children, for example). And, I'm pretty sure that those databases are kept separate.

The fact that DNA was apparently found in home slippers is also puzzling. What source was it, skin cells? The thing is, though, DNA can "migrate" to surfaces you don't even touch. So that's not a smoking gun, exactly, either.

And I do not at all blame the sister, "Ann", for refusing private DNA testing (assuming she even has ownership of the house) or refusing to talk to certain media. Not to mention, the house in the video looked impeccably clean, so it's possible that there are no traces even left. Regardless of a reason, it's her right to refuse.

Considering how many officers have been on this case, it's surprising that the culprit hasn't yet been caught. There's too many people involved for it to be an inside job or an acquaintance of theirs as well. My guess is just as good as anyone else's. This tragedy is just a mystery.

 

[Melted]

Just catching up on this thread. Going to listen to the podcast before I dive into the entire thread. I’m assuming faceless hasn’t named his POI yet?

One question for faceless, do you think there is a connection between the neighbor and the poi?

 

[Dr. Snoop]

I cannot provide details on how the stolen amount was determined, I assume it was done via checking Mikio's withdrawals, expenditure that day, what the family next door would have known. <...>
What suggests to you that he had any skill wielding a knife? Maybe you might say the fact he wrapped in such a way to avoid cutting himself. Except then he did cut himself and lost a fairly significant amount of blood. He also broke the knife the second he used it and had to abort his subsequent attacks with it to trade up. It's quite possible he cut his other hand too. Respectfully, I see no logic in connecting a sashimi knife with one arbitrarily chosen port. Sashimi knives are quite obviously found all over Japan. What single shred of evidence points to Misaki Port? <...>

I find it incomprehensible why anyone would reject the only single piece of evidence in these murders pointing to a specific location. Two types of sand: Mabori Beach and Edwards Air Base. <...>

Respectfully, I'd like to reiterate the question: why is that US sand considered evidence? The origin of the sand is narrowed down to the desert, with less certainty tied to the specific base area. There's no detailed description of the area's size, making it challenging to pinpoint the sand precisely to the base. The tech report could offer more insights into this and other potential sand sources.

In the meantime, it's worth considering that Japan is one of the world's largest importers of sand for construction, while the US is the largest sand exporter globally. The US exports over 30% of all sand, with major exporters like the Las Vegas Sands Corp obtaining sand from the Mojave Desert. Given the significant construction activities on the Miura Peninsula during the time of the murder, it might be worthwhile to explore connections with construction companies and their suppliers, if any of them used sand imported from the US. However, it seems that the Tokyo police may have already ruled out a connection to the military base for various reasons outlined by Cryptic in the previous thread.

Regarding skill, the young individual slashed three people within a matter of minutes. Such actions wouldn't be accomplished, even in a fit of insanity, without the application of a certain level of skill.

I didn't specifically associate the knife with Misaki port. My suggestion centred around establishing a connection between the killer and the Miura Peninsula, specifically targeting fish processing locations on the peninsula. The mention of the port was related to its role as an entry point for workforce from China (where barley tea is popular and valued, and where fish knives are wrapped in a distinctive manner, and clothes washed differently).

Hope that helps.

 

[Dr. Snoop]

There is zero in the way of concrete evidence that points to any kind of developmental disorder. Let alone some kind of apocalyptic credo. <...>
What single element in the evidence tells you this man was an illegal immigrant from China?

The manner in which he killed Yasuko, the knife cuts he inflicted on her, suggests that he was in an altered state of mind—whether it be a psychotic episode or something else - manifesting as a frenzied and brutal slaughter, among other actions.

There is no concrete evidence confirming that the killer was an illegal immigrant. However, the absence of substantial evidence about his identity leaves room for the possibility that he could be one. I mentioned some additional considerations earlier, providing a link to those points.

 

[Dr. Snoop]

Respectfully this has been discussed a lot in the previous threads and in the Faceless podcast. Japan laws currently prohibit the use of DNA for genetic genealogy.

Tokyo DNA Clinic: "DNA worldwide offer advanced family reconstruction cases that no other lab can provide (up to 5th cousin relationships)."

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Tokyo DNA Clinic: "DNA worldwide offer advanced family reconstruction cases that no other lab can provide (up to 5th cousin relationships)."

The use of DNA in police investigations.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

1) I also don't think that Kuromitsu's posts were the killer's, but it is possible they were made by someone planning to throw LE off track. He made several conflicting sentences. One, that all his family died because of these people and two, that this family was chosen randomly. However, what he did well was describing the elated feeling he experienced while taking a plane out of the country. Don't you think that people pay attention to the same things, mentally? When someone leaves the country sitting in an airplane and feeling elation and liberation, this is how we all think, the killer flew out the next morning. And even if we say, "oh, red herring", we still hold on to the belief that he left the country by the plane.
For all I know, he might have left by sea, by air or simply stayed.

2) He focused on some details to throw off track, this is why I wonder what his connection to the killer was. Also, I don't know Japanese, but think that he writes well. What would you say? I wish I could have known Japanese to compare some writing styles.

3) Why do you think that 27.5 cm sneakers on a 170cm person look borderline comical? It is US size 9.5. In my family i have three very tall people wearing very large sizes. I know that leg may grow faster that the rest of the body. If it is narrow or normal, it doesn't stand out. If he were thin and the size were 27.5 wide, I would have doubts.

1) If they were someone trying to throw LE off the track and had some kind of connection to the killer, the TMPD would've found it. They located this man, he had nothing to do with the murders. I can only conclude that means he had zero connection to the killer.

3) Maybe the word 'comical' was written in an off-hand way. But it's definitely true that for a relatively short man, he had notably large feet.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

One question. Since no one knows how the killer got into the house...was there any potential, but not obvious, communication between the two houses? Between the garages, or could there be a cellar under both of them? Could someone have entered one house and got into the other one internally?

There is no such pathway between the two houses that I know of.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Nevada desert. It is not possible to pinpoint the exact location with absolute precision based solely on a sample of sand grains. In forensic geology, experts use methods such as petrography, X-ray diffraction or scanning electron microscopy to examine the mineral content and structure of sand samples. These analyses can help geologists identify specific geological formations or regions associated with particular mineral compositions. Do you have a reference to the report produced by the forensic geologists, allowing me to review their findings?

Respectfully, you are wrong. I leave it to you whether you wish to go back into Thread 1 to understand why that is / listen to FACELESS to hear the words of the world-leading expert in this field.

<modsnip>

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Also, thinking of the base. I would assume that if servicemen fly home to celebrate, it would be before Christmas. And if your poi's family was religious, @FacelessPodcast, I could bet there is a higher chance of them being Episcopalians, although Catholics are possible, too. I would be unsurprised with Buddhists/Shinto, but i see what happens with religious Buddhist West Asians in the US, which way they lean (some, atheist, more, towards a stronger/majority religion. The people holding on traditional family religion would be 4th generation Japanese living in Hawaii, not someone whose family moved to a new country during the time of post/Korean war, this is when, for all practical matters, the Chinese Exclusion act of 1882 really stopped to exist - it is interesting to Google.) So, if the family was to leave the country, before the NY Eve is possible, but unlikely. I would think, any movement on Dec 23-26 is highly unlikely, shortly before the NY is more likely but after the NY is most likely. Thinking of the flights schedule.

SBM: Yokota AFB has a population of some 12,000. Whatever the number of servicemen and women returning to America for the holiday season, there is still going to be a large contingent on-base. Just to give you an idea, this is from an on-base list of business opening hours over the holiday season:


As for my POI, he is a Christian, yes. He was in Tokyo at the time of the murders, on-base.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

The more I read about this case from various sources, the more I think there was a specific motive. The way the house was ransacked, yet papers were laid across the kitchen table and thrown into the tub, indicates that someone was looking for something. I do wonder how thoroughly any of the contacts of the parents through work were vetted, and if police also checked into the parents of the students, or co-workers' contacts. And if they cross-checked the criminal database with every Japanese citizen's fingerprints, then it's much less likely the POI is even a citizen.

It does seem as if he was looking for something, yes. Though whether it was something specific or just browsing, nobody knows. His odd computer usage, for example, suggests he was just curious what was on there vs. actually trying to find a specific file or something. As for how thoroughly the contacts of parents were vetted: extremely thoroughly. I can't discount the TMPD overlooked something. But I would be very comfortable in betting my bottom dollar that whoever the killer is, he won't be found in the parents' social circle. And to clarify, there is no national database of fingerprints in Japan, only in South Korea. The TMPD could only cross-ref with the criminal database which, obviously, the killer was not found on.

But, that part isn't really clear to me. I'm American, and we're not even fingerprinted here unless you are arrested or have a specific job that requires it (in some states, even teenagers need to be fingerprinted to work with children, for example). And, I'm pretty sure that those databases are kept separate.

As above.

The fact that DNA was apparently found in home slippers is also puzzling. What source was it, skin cells? The thing is, though, DNA can "migrate" to surfaces you don't even touch. So that's not a smoking gun, exactly, either.

I don't know where this thing about the slippers comes from. I would discount.

And I do not at all blame the sister, "Ann", for refusing private DNA testing (assuming she even has ownership of the house) or refusing to talk to certain media. Not to mention, the house in the video looked impeccably clean, so it's possible that there are no traces even left. Regardless of a reason, it's her right to refuse.

I do not blame her, either. And of course it's her right to refuse; that much is self-evident. My point here is that if she wanted to know more about the killer and was beseeching the media to do more to help find him, you might understand my puzzlement when she turned down all contacts. Also, we would need such a miniscule amount of DNA to have some findings re: the killer and he bled a significant amount. It wouldn't shock me if there was some kind of trace in a door jamb or under a floor board.

Considering how many officers have been on this case, it's surprising that the culprit hasn't yet been caught. There's too many people involved for it to be an inside job or an acquaintance of theirs as well. My guess is just as good as anyone else's. This tragedy is just a mystery.

I totally agree it's not an inside job, or someone known to the family.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Just catching up on this thread. Going to listen to the podcast before I dive into the entire thread. I’m assuming faceless hasn’t named his POI yet?

One question for faceless, do you think there is a connection between the neighbor and the poi?

I won't be naming him.

And no, I think there is no connection between him and the family. To clarify, the neighbours were the maternal family, the "An Irie" family (not her real name). There was also a couple over the road. They heard nothing and were eliminated from the investigation.

Side point: somebody mentioned that the two grandfathers had passed but that grandmothers were alive: it's only Setsuko who is still with us, Mikio's mother.

 

[SteveL]

Respectfully, I'd like to reiterate the question: why is that US sand considered evidence? The origin of the sand is narrowed down to the desert, with less certainty tied to the specific base area. There's no detailed description of the area's size, making it challenging to pinpoint the sand precisely to the base. The tech report could offer more insights into this and other potential sand sources.

In the meantime, it's worth considering that Japan is one of the world's largest importers of sand for construction, while the US is the largest sand exporter globally. The US exports over 30% of all sand, with major exporters like the Las Vegas Sands Corp obtaining sand from the Mojave Desert. Given the significant construction activities on the Miura Peninsula during the time of the murder, it might be worthwhile to explore connections with construction companies and their suppliers, if any of them used sand imported from the US. However, it seems that the Tokyo police may have already ruled out a connection to the military base for various reasons outlined by Cryptic in the previous thread.

Regarding skill, the young individual slashed three people within a matter of minutes. Such actions wouldn't be accomplished, even in a fit of insanity, without the application of a certain level of skill.

I didn't specifically associate the knife with Misaki port. My suggestion centred around establishing a connection between the killer and the Miura Peninsula, specifically targeting fish processing locations on the peninsula. The mention of the port was related to its role as an entry point for workforce from China (where barley tea is popular and valued, and where fish knives are wrapped in a distinctive manner, and clothes washed differently).

Hope that helps.

Please read previous posts and listen to the “Faceless” podcast. Everything you keep bringing up, arguing, and countering has been discussed in great detail.

 

[SteveL]

The manner in which he killed Yasuko, the knife cuts he inflicted on her, suggests that he was in an altered state of mind—whether it be a psychotic episode or something else - manifesting as a frenzied and brutal slaughter, among other actions.

There is no concrete evidence confirming that the killer was an illegal immigrant. However, the absence of substantial evidence about his identity leaves room for the possibility that he could be one. I mentioned some additional considerations earlier, providing a link to those points.

Please read previous posts and listen to the “Faceless” podcast. Everything you keep bringing up, arguing, and countering has been discussed in great detail.

 

[Incoherent]

As for my POI, he is a Christian, yes. He was in Tokyo at the time of the murders, on-base.

Adding for interest:

The closest train station to Yokota Air Base is Higashi-Fussa, and it takes approximately 1 hour via train to the closest station to the Miyazawa house Chitose-Karasuyama. It’s a very doable journey transferring train line at minimum only one time. There is walking involved to and from those stations but also buses available.
If by car as we’ve discussed the possibility of previously, directly to Soshigaya Park from the Air Base is just 45 minutes via toll and 1 hour outside of it. Again, a very doable journey

Now I’m wondering, if he drove back to Yokota after the murders and went via toll, would information be out there of that car passing through? Possibly cars very early morning of the 31st Dec. 2020? Assuming he went the quickest way back there and did go directly back.