Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3

[BatataPoha]

Therefore we can likely conclude Niina and Yasuko heard, and possibly saw, the whole thing before the killer went up the ladder to attack them too. Hearing a struggle and someone falling down the stairs you’d naturally call out to someone I feel… perhaps that alerted him to people being in the attic too.

I dunno about this. I think it was reported that they were attacked in their bed. I doubt they would be waiting for the killer to strike them in their bed if they heard him before he came up.

Much more likely they were in deep sleep or under the influence of drugs ( cough medications, sleeping pills, antidepressants) and missed the commotion downstairs.

 

[BatataPoha]

Has there been any mention anywhere of Yasuko possibly being hard of hearing?

 

[MesquiteO21]

My thoughts on various topics here.

1) The 2nd perp theory has literally no evidence.

I don’t even know for what exactly we need a 2nd perp. We can extend that to 3,4,5,6 folks all standing outside the house, unseen and unnoticed. Imo, zero evidence links to a 2nd guy involved. Infact this would be even more incredibly shoddy if there are 2 or more guys involved here.

2) Re: clothes - I don’t mind the theory that the killer could be a random Japanese guy. One reason why so many believe in the foreign military brat is coz of the sand and the killer not getting apprehended despite the TMPD. And yet the latter part could be completely a matte of luck/ chance and as far as the sand thing, the Miyazawas have been to the exact same places. So it isn’t exactly uncommon for a Japanese guy to have that kinda sand in my view.

It is however super interesting that he doesn’t attempt to destroy his stuff in any way. No burning, throwing them in cola, detergent, submersion, pooping, or any sort of thing.

No attempt whatsoever, despite the fact that he does infact sully some documents and the belongings of the Miyazawas. That shows some incredible confidence from a presumably first time killer about him not being traced.

3) Re: sanitary pads being natural to use to stop bleeding.

I beg to differ here. It would have been much easier for the killer to use his own handkerchief (he has two with him) or Miyazawas clothes from inside their cupboards. Even if he had concerns about sterility, he could have simply heated them in boiling water, or doused them in some kinda antiseptic.

These kinds of methods are what are shown in movies or pop culture in nomal life. If someone did this, especially if they are actively bleeding out, then I would consider this to be far more usual than anyone actively seeking out sanitary pads that weren’t even readily available to the killer.


4) the abduction or SA of the kids motive also doesn’t make much sense to me. Ultimately the killer had the opportunity to do more evil stuff and he didn’t (thankfully) so attributing this to his already gruesome crimes seems like an overreach to me.

5) the killer doesn’t demonstrate any good method of grappling one on one. Infact he is afraid to go after the mom and the young girl with his broken knife. I highly doubt this is someone skilled in any kind of combat skills.

It is more than likely his upper body strength comes from some different kinda activity- possibly something like tennis.

i was just tossing around the idea of a second perp since it's crazy to me that a high school kid would kill 4 people. and i don't even necessarily mean physical-wise, since teenagers definitely have the ability to be extremely strong with a lot of energy. Mentally, a teenager commiting a brutal act against 4 people is what kind of astounds me. Of course teenagers have committed mass killings with school shootings but such a personal/up close brutal killing of 4 people seems kind of rare for someone so young (unless of course he was on the older side of LE's assessment that he was born between '65 and '85). So i was just thinking out loud wondering if maybe there was someone else involved.

but it's definitely possible he was completely a lone wolf

 

[MesquiteO21]

i think i need to review the layout of the house again, i didn't realize Rei was downstairs from everyone else. does anyone have a quick link to the house blueprint/layout?

 

[Auntie Cipation]

i think i need to review the layout of the house again, i didn't realize Rei was downstairs from everyone else. does anyone have a quick link to the house blueprint/layout?

Mikio was [apparently] still awake and working on his computer on the first floor when the killing began.

When I referenced Rei being alone on the 2nd floor with everyone else upstairs, I was thinking of how it *would have been* after Mikio went to sleep, and how a retracted ladder between floors 2 and 3 would have made him even more separate.

But since the killing happened while Mikio was still downstairs, my comment was just speculation about whether that plan might have felt scary for Rei and thus Mikio might have planned to sleep downstairs himself that night.

All MOO

 

[Calcano]

i think i need to review the layout of the house again, i didn't realize Rei was downstairs from everyone else. does anyone have a quick link to the house blueprint/layout?

When familiarizing myself with this case I referred a lot to @FacelessPodcast great writeups in Thread 1. He included this picture of the layout. Hopefully it's what you're looking for.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

When familiarizing myself with this case I referred a lot to @FacelessPodcast great writeups in Thread 1. He included this picture of the layout. Hopefully it's what you're looking for.

Just to note that there is an error in this graphic (Rei should be 1, Mikio 2).

Gracias y hasta luego

 

[Hausos]

Just to note that there is an error in this graphic (Rei should be 1, Mikio 2).

Gracias y hasta luego

What? Isn’t the layout referencing their positioning after death? Why would Mikio be in Rei’s bed and Rei at the bottom of the stairs…?

 

[MiniMoo]

i was just tossing around the idea of a second perp since it's crazy to me that a high school kid would kill 4 people. and i don't even necessarily mean physical-wise, since teenagers definitely have the ability to be extremely strong with a lot of energy. Mentally, a teenager commiting a brutal act against 4 people is what kind of astounds me. Of course teenagers have committed mass killings with school shootings but such a personal/up close brutal killing of 4 people seems kind of rare for someone so young (unless of course he was on the older side of LE's assessment that he was born between '65 and '85). So i was just thinking out loud wondering if maybe there was someone else involved.

but it's definitely possible he was completely a lone wolf

There are children worldwide that have murdered at quite young ages like Mary Bell (10 years old, UK) and Amarjeet Sada (7 years old, India).

Not sure how rare it is, but I sure hope so.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

What? Isn’t the layout referencing their positioning after death? Why would Mikio be in Rei’s bed and Rei at the bottom of the stairs…?

No, the sequence of the murders

 

[annemc2]

What? Isn’t the layout referencing their positioning after death? Why would Mikio be in Rei’s bed and Rei at the bottom of the stairs…?

I think that the numbers are referencing the order of who was killed. Rei was 1st, for example.

eta: jinx, Faceless!!

 

[Cryptic]

Thank you for all your ideas @Cryptic. an over-achiever and someone who is always first at everything and never fails. Someone that got the highest grades in school, holds himself in high-esteem, cocky and thinks he can get away with doing anything…
But something happens to cause him to snap and, since he’s always used to winning and achieving what he wants, commits the murder out of rage and fury

I think this scenario is unlikely given the second criteria that the muderous over achiever be linked to a US military base.

I am thinking that over achievers having a melt down and committing rage murders of largely random, or completely random people are rare.

Rather, a more common over achiever murder scenario could be: I am cool, confident and succesful- but never, I mean never, do anything to sabotage the success that I worked for.

When applied to this case, I think an over achiever motive would be linked to the wife's position as a cram test tutor. For example:

- Flip Daniel into an over achiever who lives off base, is pretty acculturated in Japan, and who attends Japanese schools. He hires the wife as a cram tutor- then blames her when his customary success fails to materialize.... .

But, the likely additional requirement of "attending Japanese Schools", while clearly possible, adds yet another requirement to the already "requirement heavy" base connection.

 

[Hausos]

Someone on Reddit says he was in Japan during the time of the murders and there were whispers and a lot of people in Japan at the time thought it was a Yakuza hit? He said that the relative disrespect and lounging around shown after the murder are typical of such hits. Apparently, Mikio may have had a dodgy history?

Does anyone consider this theory?

 

[Cryptic]

If this person knew he was leaving Japan or had a way out of Japan quickly, could he commit the murder and then leave the base undetected? Not by the people on the base, but by the country outside of it?

Yes. @FacelessPodcast did some research that was confirmed by some former US servicemen.

There is a long standing, active treaty between the US and Japan that allows the US to bring in military staff and their dependents outside the authority of the Japanese government. These people enter, and leave Japan solely under US military auspices.

As a result, an individual connected to the base could commit the murders, then depart, with out the Japanese knowing it.

Though I have a completely unfounded suspicion that the Japanese could be given a courtesy copy list of the names and place of assignment of the people the US brings in for base staffing purposes, the entry and departure of these people are not subject to Japanese review.

 

[MiniMoo]

Someone on Reddit says he was in Japan during the time of the murders and there were whispers and a lot of people in Japan at the time thought it was a Yakuza hit? He said that the relative disrespect and lounging around shown after the murder are typical of such hits. Apparently, Mikio may have had a dodgy history?

Does anyone consider this theory?

I was living in Japan when this family was murdered and never heard of it being a Yakuza hit - not even a whisper. But then the Lucy Blackman case was still quite massive back then in the media as well as a nurse that was murdered in Okinawa just months before the Miyazawa family.

If Yakuza, would they really be touching an entire family though, also, its easy enough for them just to make people disappear if they really want to without leaving a crime scene behind or much of anything.

JMO

 

[Cryptic]

If Yakuza, would they really be touching an entire family though,

I would say absolutely not.

Japan has a functioning police force, a functioning judicial system, and a public with little tolerance for criminal violence. As a result, the Yakuza, if they want to exist long term, need to keep violence dialed down. They cant afford to go "Cartel".

Killing a male who crossed them is easy to see. I can even see killing his wife under special circumstances such as husbands "sin" was very severe- thus the need to send a very severe message. Wife was also involved in the husband's "sin"- so punishing her is also needed.

But.... I cant see the Yakuza killing children. Its too big a step towards Cartels in a society that will not tolerate it.

 

[MiniMoo]

I would say absolutely not.

Japan has a functioning police force, a functioning judicial system, and a public with little tolerance for criminal violence. As a result, the Yakuza, if they want to exist long term, need to keep violence dialed down. They cant afford to go "Cartel".

Killing a male who crossed them is easy to see. I can even see killing his wife under special circumstances such as husbands "sin" was very severe- thus the need to send a very severe message. Wife was also involved in the husband's "sin"- so punishing her is also needed.

But.... I cant see the Yakuza killing children. Its too big a step towards Cartels in a society that will not tolerate it.

I would think not too.

There were two types of Yakuza when I was there - old established organised crime families and then the wanna bes that were into unorganised crime and new to it all.

The ones that did make waves seemed to be from the second lot.

 

[Hausos]

I would say absolutely not.

Japan has a functioning police force, a functioning judicial system, and a public with little tolerance for criminal violence. As a result, the Yakuza, if they want to exist long term, need to keep violence dialed down. They cant afford to go "Cartel".

Killing a male who crossed them is easy to see. I can even see killing his wife under special circumstances such as husbands "sin" was very severe- thus the need to send a very severe message. Wife was also involved in the husband's "sin"- so punishing her is also needed.

But.... I cant see the Yakuza killing children. Its too big a step towards Cartels in a society that will not tolerate it.

But the Yakuza has before

Ōmuta murders - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

And I cannot access the article as it’s expired, but someone had commented this:

 

[FlowersInBloom]

i think i need to review the layout of the house again, i didn't realize Rei was downstairs from everyone else. does anyone have a quick link to the house blueprint/layout?

This video shows everything and really gives you a good look at the size of the house and where everything is… unfortunately it does not go up into the attic… but you can see all of the places of where the family died and killer was.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

But the Yakuza has before

Ōmuta murders - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

And I cannot access the article as it’s expired, but someone had commented this:

View attachment 519013

All ideas welcome here, @Hausos, thanks for joining in. I won’t be on this much but just to save speculation:

1. More broadly on the source of this idea about the yakuza. I’ve read probably thousands of Reddit posts on this case. I can count on one hand how many were worthwhile. The rest is just blue-sky thinking driven by speculation or old articles. Reddit is what it is. Worth saying, 99% of the legitimate articles on this case, even from solid Japanese sources, are via the police Kisha club, as you know. That is to say, they’re only publishing what the TMPD WANT them to. This is why, for more or less the last 20 years, they illuminate very little beyond regurgitating the same old points and questions. The English language Wikipedia page on this case is unfettered garbage, let alone the Japanese one. You can make up your own mind about whether YouTube or ‘Listverse’ are solid sources.

2. There is absolutely zero linking with the yakuza to these murders. Zero. When I put the idea to TMPD, the response was laughter and then “no.” You’ll find some oblique mention of biker gangs out there if you care to look. Again, there is precisely nothing backing it up. As far as we can be sure of much in this case; i'm comfortable in ruling out the yakuza in its entirety.

3. Mikio was NOT dodgy on any level whatsoever (whatever that means). This is why your reddit OP can give zero substantiated examples of it, I’m guessing? Nor can anyone else here. Of course, anything is possible. But can you or OP point to any single detail on this front? He had no ties to the mob and they simply had no interest in him. He was a good man who loved his family. The TMPD searched his life forensically. They found nothing. If they couldn’t, can some guy on Reddit? The killer was not yakuza and I would say there are a thousand reasons why this much should be obvious in his actions / profile.

4. This mob angle might take you to reading the work of Mr. Ichihashi (not his real name). You can search my comments on him in the past. Safe to say, I think his ‘work’ is about as useful as a chocolate teapot and borders on the personally offensive to Setsuko Miyazawa et al. In short, he cannot prove a single one of his claims. He dodged my request for interview several times citing the need to protect his journalistic anonymity. When I assured him he could keep this, he ghosted me. I wonder why.

Thanks again, here’s hoping you find the thread useful.