Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3

[Sor Juana]

I can't speak to coverage but here is a still from CCTV in late 2000 showing suspects of a COMPLETELY SEPERATE CASE murder in Ibaraki, at a convenience store before the crime. Poor quality but enough to make out clothing and features.

Wanted to caps that in case people think I'm posting suspects in this case.

This is actually the case I mentioned before. Police withheld the images for almost 18 years before the public knew they existed as the men were believed to be minors.

View attachment 519549

Currently, Japan has around 5m cctv cameras nationwide. In 2000, this number was much lower, less than 1m. In Tokyo, there would have been tens of thousands of cameras across the city. With that in mind, the average for Tokyo would be one camera per several hectares. Of course, this is misleading, as some areas have many cameras while others have none. But it provides an indication that, back then, the city wasn’t as well covered as it is now.

In 2023: "Tokyo, Japan – 37,266 cameras for 37,194,104 people = 1 camera per 1,000 people and 7.11 cameras per square mile." source: The 10 most populated cities in the world (and their camera figures)

 

[Sor Juana]

That depends on the car. Anything out of place in the neighborhood, yes. But not something typical for the area. I am also thinking that the car that “had the right to be there” could be totally missed. A garbage truck or any mail delivery would be missed (I know that Japanese mailmen use bikes, but if the amount is too huge, he could take a car.) Also, NY. Gifts, gifts from abroad since the neighbors recently left GB? Here, FEDEX or USPS, I don’t know what delivery system would be in Japan.

I am also thinking, the intercom and cable for Mikio’s computer. They needed to be installed. Interestingly, when did it happen?

That's true, indeed that a service vehicle or a person in a service uniform attracts less attention. As you mentioned in your earlier post, I fully support this line of thought. It hasn't been discussed before, but I think it's a very good point. Whether it's a garbage collector, mailman, or even a delivery courier (car or bike), real or fake, such roles generally draw less scrutiny from neighbours. Not a fire truck though.

Regarding intercom or computer cables, I believe the internet cable should have been relatively recent, likely from that year or the year before. However, imo, the killer does not seem to align with a technical role that requires skill, focus, and communication abilities. I know there have been serial killers with technical backgrounds, such as Richard Kuklinski or Dennis Rader. Here, I am not sure what it is. In my view, this killer did not possess any skills beyond very basic ones. JMO.

 

[Sor Juana]

Do you think it’s possible he actually is on CCTV out there somewhere, no matter the mode of transport, and that he’s just been… missed?

RSBM. In my opinion, it’s very likely that he appears on camera but was not identified due to poor visibility, whether from distance or lighting. There's little that can be done about it until he is arrested and his route is revealed. Only then could you attempt to locate him on the footage.

 

[Charlot123]

That's true, indeed that a service vehicle or a person in a service uniform attracts less attention. As you mentioned in your earlier post, I fully support this line of thought. It hasn't been discussed before, but I think it's a very good point. Whether it's a garbage collector, mailman, or even a delivery courier (car or bike), real or fake, such roles generally draw less scrutiny from neighbours. Not a fire truck though.

Regarding intercom or computer cables, I believe the internet cable should have been relatively recent, likely from that year or the year before. However, imo, the killer does not seem to align with a technical role that requires skill, focus, and communication abilities. I know there have been serial killers with technical backgrounds, such as Richard Kuklinski or Dennis Rader. Here, I am not sure what it is. In my view, this killer did not possess any skills beyond very basic ones. JMO.

I can’t guesstimate his intellectual capacity. I have a feeling that he may have some barriers (speech, hearing, or illness?) for which he overcompensates in another way, but we know too little. I can see why you assume he doesn’t have the skills, though.
On the other hand, the intercom - didn’t work. No calls from the house. I am still not sure what he did with the cable, tbh. I don’t know why there were no calls from the house given that the owners had mobile devices.
So, anything is possible. I tend to stick with “average” because this is how he probably avoided capture, by not standing out in any way. Lower than average, with bursts of aggression that are surprising to the murderer himself, is also a possible version.

 

[Charlot123]

RSBM. In my opinion, it’s very likely that he appears on camera but was not identified due to poor visibility, whether from distance or lighting. There's little that can be done about it until he is arrested and his route is revealed. Only then could you attempt to locate him on the footage.

Plus, even if he is on the footage, the quality from 2000 is low, and he is 23 years older now. Good luck to anyone trying to work with such information.

 

[Charlot123]

One more consideration. About the hand injuries and blood loss.

My biggest loss of blood was from a small wound on my big toe. I managed to cut an artery.

Arterial blood is pumped under high pressure. What naturally stops the blood is our own blood clot. But the pressure in the arterial system washes the clot off.

However, most cuts go through veins. So if the killer cut himself but the blood was venous, with low blood pressure in the venous system, it indeed would have been enough to use a sanitary product, press it tightly for a while, and the bleeding would stop. So I doubt that he was all that bloodied when he left the house. The scar is probably noticeable because the wound penetrated into the dermis, but unless the person is prone to extensive scarring, it might attract no attention. One wonders how he might know about the clotting, but one prior injury and someone knowledgeable helping him could be enough.

 

[FlowersInBloom]

One more consideration. About the hand injuries and blood loss.

My biggest loss of blood was from a small wound on my big toe. I managed to cut an artery.

Arterial blood is pumped under high pressure. What naturally stops the blood is our own blood clot. But the pressure in the arterial system washes the clot off.

However, most cuts go through veins. So if the killer cut himself but the blood was venous, with low blood pressure in the venous system, it indeed would have been enough to use a sanitary product, press it tightly for a while, and the bleeding would stop. So I doubt that he was all that bloodied when he left the house. The scar is probably noticeable because the wound penetrated into the dermis, but unless the person is prone to extensive scarring, it might attract no attention. One wonders how he might know about the clotting, but one prior injury and someone knowledgeable helping him could be enough.

From what I remember the killer’s blood was also found on the towel in the toilet room, which he wiped his hands on after defecating.
You would naturally think that if your hand/hands had been sliced open by a knife you would attempt to tend to the wound as soon as possible… which, in the timeline of events, would be right after Yasuko and Niina were killed.
I wonder if he was having trouble stemming the bleeding and the wounds were continuing to bleed for a while after, which is why his blood was found in various places…
But then I also wonder, wasn’t it said he was carrying around drawers and documents and throwing them around the place? If he did so, would that indicate his wounds weren’t that bad as he still had strength in his hands to carry things around the house?
From previous posts about this I remember that his gloves were slashed up quite badly and there was his blood all over them…
Does losing a lot of blood necessarily mean the wound is worse or just that he managed to nick an artery…?

 

[Sor Juana]

Regarding Buddhist temples, Gōtokuji Temple is situated in the northern part of Setagaya, about 5km from the crime scene. The map shows the extent of territory it covers, which is impressive. The Mangan-ji temple (in the southern part) also has quarters for monks.

 

[Sor Juana]

I can’t guesstimate his intellectual capacity. I have a feeling that he may have some barriers (speech, hearing, or illness?) for which he overcompensates in another way, but we know too little. I can see why you assume he doesn’t have the skills, though.
On the other hand, the intercom - didn’t work. No calls from the house. I am still not sure what he did with the cable, tbh. I don’t know why there were no calls from the house given that the owners had mobile devices.
So, anything is possible. I tend to stick with “average” because this is how he probably avoided capture, by not standing out in any way. Lower than average, with bursts of aggression that are surprising to the murderer himself, is also a possible version.

- The evidence is too conflicting. It’s not only about the nature of his actions and their atrocity, but also how he carried them out, particularly with Yasuko and Niina, and what he left behind. I can’t see this as part of a normal range of behaviour or something too 'emotional' that went overboard. Even a twilight state in epilepsy seems more 'normal' in comparison. I recall cases where a mother, in such a state, microwaved her child, only to return to normal and then be unable to find the baby. It’s something no one would expect. But in my view, this is not just about emotional instability or poor impulse control; it’s far more severe. Let specialists determine the appropriate term for it.
- Regarding the phone calls, I have no idea. It’s possible, by coincidence, they didn’t have their mobile phones upstairs, perhaps forgetting to bring them or leaving them charging downstairs. I hope the police thoroughly investigated this and that their technicians examined everything they could reach.
JMO

 

[Charlot123]

From what I remember the killer’s blood was also found on the towel in the toilet room, which he wiped his hands on after defecating.
You would naturally think that if your hand/hands had been sliced open by a knife you would attempt to tend to the wound as soon as possible… which, in the timeline of events, would be right after Yasuko and Niina were killed.
I wonder if he was having trouble stemming the bleeding and the wounds were continuing to bleed for a while after, which is why his blood was found in various places…
But then I also wonder, wasn’t it said he was carrying around drawers and documents and throwing them around the place? If he did so, would that indicate his wounds weren’t that bad as he still had strength in his hands to carry things around the house?
From previous posts about this I remember that his gloves were slashed up quite badly and there was his blood all over them…
Does losing a lot of blood necessarily mean the wound is worse or just that he managed to nick an artery…?

Well, I am not a surgeon, so it is not a specialist’s opinion. However, I had several klutzy wounds in life. In answer to your question, both could be true. We are discussing different kinds of wounds, though, “deep piercing” if an artery vs “cutting” a vein. IMO, “a bloodied scene” and “losing a lot of blood” are not necessarily equal things. “A lot”, physiologically, means more than natural blood reservoirs - mostly, spleen and liver - can rapidly replenish. If he was unlucky enough to lose 750 ml rapidly, he’d be in stage I hemorrhagic shock. But it is survivable, and one has to really try his hardest to lose that much. I assume he lost less.

Do people think that he cut himself when attacking Mikio? Then, highly likely, it was his first knife attack. However, that alone could explain the viciousness of attacking the two remaining victims - he was scared and afraid of another self-injury.

(I remember reading somewhere that Haruko said there was “not too much” blood in the house?)

Also, was there one would, or several? From what I have read, many murderers/attackers injure themselves during the attacks, so if he, indeed, managed to cut himself, especially, several times, it screams, inexperienced. More likely, then, these were superficial venous cuts, and …maybe he didn’t know about blood clots? So he’d press hard (any cloth would do), then the bleeding would stop, then he’d try to wash it off, dislodge the clot and it would start bleeding again. But it doesn’t mean that he lost a lot of blood, though.

If he pierced a hand artery, given that the knife appears sharp on the picture, the splatter pattern would be like a fountain of blood, rapidly pooling in a small area of the floor. Imagine a water track from a fountain as opposed to spilling the same water from a cup. I guess he’d need help if he pierced a hand artery, a suture or cauterization, unless it was small. If he merely pierced a small artery, he’d manage, but need to keep the area elevated, and…in my case, it took two hours to stop (and mine was tiny in a mundane situation.) The blood loss was small, but the bleeding felt unstoppable. There is no scar or trace of injury. Venous cuts can heal themselves, although sutures are often applied to larger cuts, for faster healing and cosmetic purposes.

But let us look at it from his position. If, as @Sor Juana has said, he was holding the knife via a holed handkerchief, theoretically, it was to prevent accidental self-slashing, and pierced (arterial) wound is more likely. That would have been more dangerous, but can leave a very small scar. But you say, his gloves were slashed? It likely means, several wounds that are probably superficial and venous. Those would bleed, of course, but slowly. They may leave noticeable scars, even now.

So his reaction. If wounding an artery, he’d need someone’s help. Call, ask to pick him up, someone need to suture it. If these are several superficial hand wounds, he’d manage himself, but he is probably scared and inexperienced, so he makes a mess. Then his behavior may be fear-driven, and he dissociates because of hyperventilation.

You know who I am thinking of? An introverted kid, playing some games available in 2000, marching around the house, with a knife in a napkin or handkerchief, “make-believe play”. He is probably doing pushups and is slim but strong. He tries invasion, but a real-life situation is different, hence, all this mess. It is not impossible that he killed Yasuko and Niina as “witnesses”, overdoing it because of own fear. In such a scenario, it is possible that his target was Rei, but what did he need is unclear. Maybe, a younger brother or a playmate?

 

[Charlot123]

- The evidence is too conflicting. It’s not only about the nature of his actions and their atrocity, but also how he carried them out, particularly with Yasuko and Niina, and what he left behind. I can’t see this as part of a normal range of behaviour or something too 'emotional' that went overboard. Even a twilight state in epilepsy seems more 'normal' in comparison. I recall cases where a mother, in such a state, microwaved her child, only to return to normal and then be unable to find the baby. It’s something no one would expect. But in my view, this is not just about emotional instability or poor impulse control; it’s far more severe. Let specialists determine the appropriate term for it.
- Regarding the phone calls, I have no idea. It’s possible, by coincidence, they didn’t have their mobile phones upstairs, perhaps forgetting to bring them or leaving them charging downstairs. I hope the police thoroughly investigated this and that their technicians examined everything they could reach.
JMO

Well, if - if! - Richard Allen is proven to be the Delphi killer, here is your example. As average as can be, nondescript, local, living nearby, still, six years after the murders. This is what I mean. Either this, or someone whose “bisiness” makes him invisible but allows to get next to many houses.

I once saw witnessed an incredibly strange dissociative episode, when the person was walking around the whole apartment house using a 4th floor ledge. Lunatism exists. It is probably intense dissociation when actions are not “senseless”, but the person retains no memory of them. There were many witnesses, and the guy appeared totally “out of it” but his movements were organized.

In the Setagaya case, though, I think the murderer had a purpose when he broke in, was interrupted by Mikio, and then, overkilled because he was inexperienced and Yasuko was protecting her daughter. A mixture of intense anger and fear. Probably the behavior will be similar to that of the perpetrator in Idaho murders. Could, however, the fear on seeing own blood make the Setagaya killer hyperventilate and that caused dissociation? Maybe?

About the temples that you kindly linked. Would any of them be accessible if he took a shortcut through the Setagaya park? Would they have bird feeders? Do you suppose that either could be located close to that place where Zelkowa trees grow in Tokyo?

 

[FlowersInBloom]

About temples… isn’t the end of the year in Japan when all Japanese people go to shrines and Buddhist temples to pray? Wouldn’t that mean the killer would be walking into quite literally the busiest possible place full of people during the morning of the 31st? He would know that surely and want to avoid people as much as possible…?

I also just did a quick Google maps check for Soshigaya Park to one of those temples and it takes 1 hour 20 minutes to walk and is still in Setagaya… would this be the wisest move for him at that time?

 

[TokyoSleuth]

About temples… isn’t the end of the year in Japan when all Japanese people go to shrines and Buddhist temples to pray? Wouldn’t that mean the killer would be walking into quite literally the busiest possible place full of people during the morning of the 31st? He would know that surely and want to avoid people as much as possible…?

I also just did a quick Google maps check for Soshigaya Park to one of those temples and it takes 1 hour 20 minutes to walk and is still in Setagaya… would this be the wisest move for him at that time?

People go on New Years Day, not the 31st.

I think it more likely he lived near the park and just went home though. Japan is a very contradictory mix of a place where it is indeed the land of twitching curtains as you heard on the podcast, while at the same time being somewhere where privacy is sacred and people mind their own business. So if your antics cross over into the public space, like with garbage, then you'll hear about it. But at the same time, many people haven't the slightest interest who their neighbors are. Including myself in this by the way. If you showed me photographs and asked me to pick out my neighbors or their clothing, I wouldn't even be able to make an educated guess.

 

[FlowersInBloom]

People go on New Years Day, not the 31st.

I think it more likely he lived near the park and just went home though. Japan is a very contradictory mix of a place where it is indeed the land of twitching curtains as you heard on the podcast, while at the same time being somewhere where privacy is sacred and people mind their own business. So if your antics cross over into the public space, like with garbage, then you'll hear about it. But at the same time, many people haven't the slightest interest who their neighbors are. Including myself in this by the way. If you showed me photographs and asked me to pick out my neighbors or their clothing, I wouldn't even be able to make an educated guess.

I see thank you, I had read that some temples also offer services on the 31st as the new year often attracts several million people on the day and the days after… or perhaps they would be readying their services on that day too. Either way, I would find it to be not the smartest move to try and head to or hide out at a temple on December 31st in Tokyo.
I also think wherever home is, he went there and went there quickly after leaving the Miyazawa house.

I have seen that news channels on TV were already running the story of the murder by the evening of the 31st. I wonder how quickly it was reported about the killer’s belongings that were left behind. People of Tokyo could have potentially known details of the murder the very same day the family was discovered and began to think about who they saw that morning.

 

[Charlot123]

About temples… isn’t the end of the year in Japan when all Japanese people go to shrines and Buddhist temples to pray? Wouldn’t that mean the killer would be walking into quite literally the busiest possible place full of people during the morning of the 31st? He would know that surely and want to avoid people as much as possible…?

I also just did a quick Google maps check for Soshigaya Park to one of those temples and it takes 1 hour 20 minutes to walk and is still in Setagaya… would this be the wisest move for him at that time?

I am sorry. You probably have to explain to me, then. Since I didn’t know how New Year was typically celebrated in Japan, I had to read. According to what I read, the temples would be usually visited after the NY, the 1st or the 2nd of January. Perhaps I am wrong? I was proceeding from that fact, that maybe, at the end of the year, it would be empty in the temples? But if it is not so, let’s drop this theory. (In fact, the real reason I entertained it was of my impression of Buddhist temples. In contrast to Christian ones, they are not social, and it seemed to me like a good place to escape, psychologically.)

 

[Incoherent]

I am sorry. You probably have to explain to me, then. Since I didn’t know how New Year was typically celebrated in Japan, I had to read. According to what I read, the temples would be usually visited after the NY, the 1st or the 2nd of January. Perhaps I am wrong? I was proceeding from that fact, that maybe, at the end of the year, it would be empty in the temples? But if it is not so, let’s drop this theory. (In fact, the real reason I entertained it was of my impression of Buddhist temples. In contrast to Christian ones, they are not social, and it seemed to me like a good place to escape, psychologically.)

Excuse my butting-in here.

What @TokyoSleuth said is correct and Buddhist temples and shrines are visited on 1st Jan to around the 3rd or 4th. The popular temples in Tokyo draw in upwards of several million people. New Year is a very big deal in Japan, it’s just not celebrated as it would be in the West.

However @FlowersInBloom is also partially correct here because 1st Jan also counts from midnight, and many people are packed into the roads leading to and the temples themselves like sardines from the evening of the 31st to be able to pray for luck as midnight hits.

I do agree that it would be a stupid mistake if the killer decided to hang around a temple on the 31st during preparation time. It would be busy there. If we speculate on that for a second, whether he knew it or not may be a different story depending on whether he was Japanese or not, and whether he understood the culture or not.

Just as a side note, the Gotokuji temple mentioned in the posts above is one I have been to many times. It is serene and very beautiful there and somewhat famous. Though the only reason I found it is because the Setagaya City Hall office is located behind it and I had to go there for business!

 

[Charlot123]

People go on New Years Day, not the 31st.

I think it more likely he lived near the park and just went home though. Japan is a very contradictory mix of a place where it is indeed the land of twitching curtains as you heard on the podcast, while at the same time being somewhere where privacy is sacred and people mind their own business. So if your antics cross over into the public space, like with garbage, then you'll hear about it. But at the same time, many people haven't the slightest interest who their neighbors are. Including myself in this by the way. If you showed me photographs and asked me to pick out my neighbors or their clothing, I wouldn't even be able to make an educated guess.

I suspect you are right. He just went home, and probably, took a cut through the park. I suspect that he was either unseen, or was super ordinary, or maybe, was expected to be there at that time. To me, it seems that he dresses in a Japanese way, probably, doesn’t stand out looks-wise, eats typical Japanese food and knows the area around the Miyazawas house too well. A Japanese man in Tokyo, a 34-million city. For this very reason, we come to the same point, genetic genealogy will probably help us. Without it, the case will not be solved.

 

[Janitor101]

From what I remember the killer’s blood was also found on the towel in the toilet room, which he wiped his hands on after defecating.
You would naturally think that if your hand/hands had been sliced open by a knife you would attempt to tend to the wound as soon as possible… which, in the timeline of events, would be right after Yasuko and Niina were killed.
I wonder if he was having trouble stemming the bleeding and the wounds were continuing to bleed for a while after, which is why his blood was found in various places…
But then I also wonder, wasn’t it said he was carrying around drawers and documents and throwing them around the place? If he did so, would that indicate his wounds weren’t that bad as he still had strength in his hands to carry things around the house?
From previous posts about this I remember that his gloves were slashed up quite badly and there was his blood all over them…
Does losing a lot of blood necessarily mean the wound is worse or just that he managed to nick an artery…?

I agree that his wound/s were most likely not so serious that he required immediate medical attention. I think the thick gloves he was wearing provided more than adequate protection against the sharp knife penetrating very deeply into his hand/s. He was able to sit quite calmly at the computer and visit websites and such while eating his ice cream and drinking his tea. And didn't he also dig into a melon from the fridge most likely with an uninjured hand, and was able to undress/dress without any apparent difficulty?

The more I think about this guys coldblooded nature the more terrifying he becomes to me. His ability to murder 4 people and then calmly tossing back some food and making himself completely at home in a bloody crime scene, just sends chills up my spine.

 

[TokyoSleuth]

His ability to murder 4 people and then calmly tossing back some food and making himself completely at home in a bloody crime scene, just sends chills up my spine.

Do a google of Futoshi Matsunaga's murder spree just two years beforehand. He broke into houses and kept entire families prisoner for years, eventually persuading them to kill and later dismember and dispose of each other.

I'm not trying to draw any comparison here, just that for some reason research into cases like this has actually helped me to visualize the actual criminal more, not just seeing some terrifying phantom with no face who seemingly disappeared. More and more he just fits a pattern of other killers between 1960 and 2000 who were mentally disturbed individuals who committed horrific knife crimes against innocents, children included. Not a Korean hit man, not a yakuza member, not a spy, not an American military man protected by governments, just a dangerous local man with a knife who took out his perceived slights on an innocent family. I feel like the limits to DNA, coupled with the previous statute of limitations on murder has led to a sad phenomenon in Japan where a disproportionate number of kidnappings and murders will never even be reopened, let alone solved.

@FacelessPodcast, any plans to release your podcast in Japanese? I feel like you could be a great boost to renew case pressure from the public, especially younger generations who don't know about the crime. Stoking international interest is one thing, but Japan is still a very insular society and interest internationally goes somewhat unnoticed.

 

[Hausos]

Do a google of Futoshi Matsunaga's murder spree just two years beforehand. He broke into houses and kept entire families prisoner for years, eventually persuading them to kill and later dismember and dispose of each other.

I'm not trying to draw any comparison here, just that for some reason research into cases like this has actually helped me to visualize the actual criminal more, not just seeing some terrifying phantom with no face who seemingly disappeared. More and more he just fits a pattern of other killers between 1960 and 2000 who were mentally disturbed individuals who committed horrific knife crimes against innocents, children included. Not a Korean hit man, not a yakuza member, not a spy, not an American military man protected by governments, just a dangerous local man with a knife who took out his perceived slights on an innocent family. I feel like the limits to DNA, coupled with the previous statute of limitations on murder has led to a sad phenomenon in Japan where a disproportionate number of kidnappings and murders will never even be reopened, let alone solved.

@FacelessPodcast, any plans to release your podcast in Japanese? I feel like you could be a great boost to renew case pressure from the public, especially younger generations who don't know about the crime. Stoking international interest is one thing, but Japan is still a very insular society and interest internationally goes somewhat unnoticed.

I agree with you. I’ve also read up on lots and lots of crime/murder cases in Japan. I feel like the killer here isn’t that much different from other killers. There have even been young adults in Japan who’ve killed or helped killed and when given their sentences they’ve said things like “don’t care” or smiled and yelled something crazy like “Merry Christmas!”

If you go on the darker corners of the Japanese internet you’ll see people writing things like “I’m so mad, I want to stab someone”. Or Japanese 2channers talking about how they want to go on stabbing sprees. Morbid, and likely trolls, but there’s certainly something to it.

Just feel that with everything considered, including the possible motive, the killer still feels so Japanese to me. (US military have certainly committed crimes in Japan but the vast majority of them are either sexually related, burglaries/stealing, or car accidents resulting in someone’s death).

Also, Faceless releasing his podcast in Japanese would be AMAZING. Would love to hear their thoughts regarding the podcast and new theories surrounding the case. Keeping interest alive in this case is so, so important. Maybe the Japanese can advocate for some change regarding the DNA laws (doubt it but maybe the government can make an exception for serious crimes?)

All of the above is my opinion, ofc.