Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Thanks, that's wild! Yes, skating isn't quiet and with young children trying to get to nap/get to bed I totally get the annoyance now that I'm a parent haha... I'm glad the skate park is still used.

I think the killer was a bit on the fringe/socially awkward and never quite fit in. So if a skateboarder (or not) and interacted with this regular group in some form at the skate park, I feel like he wasn't quite 'in' the cool/regular crowd. He would've been in and out and almost outcast/observer (poser?).

I think he was an outcast and maybe that's why the expensive/overtly stylish clothes? BUT I am thinking like a Canadian who isn't in Tokyo! However, I do remember the 00's well (living in Vancouver BC at the time)... the killers style was typical and trendy - not skate clothes I have seen skaters skate in. Most guys I knew wouldn't skate in those clothes but more like something one would wear who was really trendy. MOO
I also don’t think he was a skater or had anything to do with the groups at the skate park. Due to the age range given I don’t doubt he knew people and was friends with those who were skaters, but he wasn’t one of them and didn’t know those at Soshigaya park.

I think just a coincidence Mikio was having noise trouble trying to get the kids to bed and had a few arguments with the skaters outside.
 
Does anyone know if it's true the hankerchief was ironed? Or is this a mix up and referring to what @FacelessPodcast mentioned about the nose bent and killer used as face mask? <modsnip: If it's not an approved source, do NOT even mention it> If so, isn't this another military trait? The ironing of such things?

Said article mentions killer was vegetarian according to the food ate the day before but isn't that common cuisine in Tokyo so not necessarily a vegetarian diet per se?

ETA: Oops, it's an article Nic wrote! So I guess true and I didn't hear about the ironing of the hankerchief until I read that.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

... I’ve been reading excerpts from An Irie’s book this afternoon about the murders. She says of Rei:

“He was certainly a special child. He couldn’t speak words clearly and he couldn’t look you in the eyes. Not only that, instead of words, strange sounds and loud voices would just spill out from him”

So I take this to mean that Rei was likely unable to communicate effectively with words and was often making loud noises, shouting, making sounds, etc.

It could explain the sound-proofing installation a bit more and also indicate why Mikio was not alerted quicker if Rei was usually making noises like these.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
About the bathroom window, this is an emergency escape route, carefully prepared and thought out. The window is open, the screen is down, the shower curtain is open. If someone opens the front door, the same police, then he will run away through this window. A wonderful place to get away if anything.
RSMB: I had some trouble understanding your meaning in parts. But taking your points in turn. If the Tokyo MPD is uncertain as to the killer's escape route, I'm wondering what basis there is for deeming this window a "wonderful" option.
Through the window in the living room you can see what’s in front of the house, you can also see it from the nursery, and you can also hear it.
I don't actually know what this sentence means.
The police can be seen, the neighbors can be seen and heard. But obviously I didn't have to use it.
Nor this one.
It turns out that he is very advanced in this regard, and he had to climb into houses before, and more than once.
Based on what? Perhaps you could share some links or evidence for this?
In fact, he got in without a trace, disappeared without a trace - and no one can understand how he did it.
That's not strictly true, there are traces of him both inside and outside the house. And it's not that his methods are inconceivable --they are certainly understandable-- it is that we don't have certainty given the problems with the window sill and Haruko's lack of a recollection surrounding the front door as she discovered the bodies. The fact that the police are still unsure (at least publicly) is not evidence of him being some criminal mastermind. Particularly, given that the TMPD have not discussed Rei's balcony as an ingress/egress point. How do we know he simply wasn't lucky?
He searched well too, bank cards, savings books, looked for passwords (PIN), like a pro.
Citation needed. Particularly the PIN number part. Where is that coming from?
But the murders - in general, like the first time, complete improvisation, a bunch of wrong actions, decisions.
This is word salad to me, I'm afraid.
Starting from the choice of knife and the way to carry it. He wanted to rob quietly,
How do you know this? Based on what? If it is only just your opinion, I think it's a good idea to add 'JMO'.
he improved his skills, but something went wrong. He realized this when he got hurt and was covered in blood. He could have taken off his jacket and left it in the nursery,
By nursery, I assume you mean the kids' bedroom?
and then put on a clean one, but for some reason he didn't do it, didn't have time?
He enters the house around 11pm and leaves, at the earliest, at 1:23AM. That is plenty of time to take one of Mikio's jackets. There is no evidence he rushed out of the house and didn't have enough time to grab a jacket.
When he took off his gloves in the kitchen changing the knife, he realized that he had already left a mark so it was impossible to hide the traces, a lot of his blood everywhere, fingerprints. That's why he was so angry at the end.
This is definitely a possibility. But not a certainty.
Ice cream and cold tea - he tried to cool down.
As above.
And he's not afraid of blood, and calmly walks around bodies.
A reasonable supposition, though again, we don't know that.
So he had encountered this before,
Evidence?
maybe he killed animals.
Evidence?
If his work is connected with something like that, for example, cutting fish, animals, then the injury is easy to explain - like he cut himself at work, it happens, and those around him will believe in a light one.
Or he could've said he cut himself while making dinner. It depends who and what he has around him.
 
Thank you for this info! Yes I tried to read as much as I could but I don't get much time on here in general so couldn't read all the threads wholly unfortunately. Even when I do read the threads I find it hard to remember all the details as there is a lot here to process.

Also, reading other sources I find some things confusing. I don't think we can post Wikipedia links here but the Japanese Wikipedia page that translates to English mentioned (to paraphrase - I believe we can paraphrase on here as I checked TOS) the entry/exit ideas and the front door is mentioned and if so, he may have taken his shoes off then put back on as bloody footprints were only going in one direction - up the stairs. Also footprints walked sideways up the stairs not forward which is taught in military (or seen on TV!)

I have also read it was thought the killer took the NYE cards but it was actually police which was probably clarified here as well in the threads somewhere.
To be clear, the wikipedia pages are so problematic, they're responsible for much of the confusion that clouds this case. So many contradictory ideas that are posited as fact. And that's ignoring the inherent problem with hitting the translate button on the Japanese or Chinese wiki pages.

The things re: the slippers. There is not one single solid source to prove the killer wore slippers in the house / had been in the house before. Nobody has pasted one here certainly. LE said themselves there is zero evidence for a prior visit from the killer. Whatever wikipedia says, that's the whole ballgame there. Moreover, if the guy had visited before to the point where he was offered slippers (home visits are not common in Japan either) then that's a close relationship. The TMPD have put the population of Reno on this case across 24 years. They have uncovered no link. The slippers are not a thing until someone can post something proving otherwise.

RE: the NYE cards, correct. This was a misunderstanding.
 
About the balcony. Someone asked how there were no traces left on top of the car if he used it to stand on it and get to the balcony.
RSBM: We don't know that there wasn't. Perhaps they were faint and not easily visible in the photos we have.
I wonder, the tape we have been discussing many times. The tape can be used for the skateboard, but it can also be put on top of the car hood or any horizontal surface the man used as the "support" to get to the balcony.
As I've said many times, the grip tape is not substantiated. It's not on the TMPD materials, they have not discussed it.
That tape is essentially a paper with a strong friction force. It is used for skateboards but can be used to scale surfaces, too. What if the intention was to use it to climb on the balcony? It is another question whether he put it back afterwards (then some of the sand in the tummy bag, as there were several found, not only the Mojave one, but Miuri coast as well, could be from the sneakers on the paper). Or maybe, he later threw out the used tape in the house, or burned, or shred and dumped into the bathroom paper mess.
The climb from the car roof to the balcony was not challenging. If he's able to get up to the bathroom window, he's able to get to Rei's balcony. 100%.
<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>
@FacelessPodcast, do you know if there are any rocks to climb in Mojave desert? I am horrified of that place although there is an interesting Chinese park nearby that I want to visit.
Yes, there are plenty of climbing opportunities in the Mojave. It's a huge area.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
<modsnip: Quoted post was removed.>
Nic, do you, by any chance, know if a robbery aiming at something expensive has been fully ruled out by TMPD as the motive for the Setagaya murders? (What do we know here about true cost of things? I just went to an Asian museum, only to realize that an unpresentable piece of old jade is worth millions, because, Tang dynasty). And then, go find what has been stolen from the Miyazawas, given the mess and that it looks like a disgruntled student was searching through Yasuko’s papers?
It has not been ruled out at all. In fact, they still consider this officially a ROBBERY homicide. However, except for Mikio's sweater, Yasuko's pads, and some of the money, there is nothing known to be missing from the house.
Some things might look like more than one person was involved. That the DNA of one person has been found doesn’t mean there was only one.
Within the house, there was only one assailant. Only one man killed the Miyazawas. If anyone else was complicit, they were outside / far away the whole time. Is it possible, for sure? There's also no evidence for it. I don't really have much of an opinion on it. I guess if more information were to emerge, we could opine.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It's possible Rei was strangled simply because the killer woke Rei inadvertently by creating noise as the killer fumbled with those sliding glass doors. Maybe Rei was awakened as the killer approached his bed and Rei attempted to make a run for it. In the struggle to subdue Rei, the killer simply had no time to scramble for his knife and was forced to asphyxiate the boy instead. This may be the reason Rei was found 'askew" on his bed.
This is entirely possible, yes.
But why no muddy footprints were visible on the family car is still a mystery (see @Incoherents photo of the car above) especially if it was the killer himself who left his footprints underneath the bathroom window. Did he remove his shoes before he shimmied up the balcony? It's possible, I guess.
We don't know at what point he got on top of the car, if he did that, versus walked in the mud. I guess it's also possible there were faint traces of mud on top of the car / hood.
I still think it's also possible he may have used the bathroom window as an exit point even though no threads or fibers, etc. were found. He had shed almost all of his belongings inside the house and maybe he just got lucky leaving no evidence behind in the window.
Yes, it's definitely possible. I just find it less likely given the absence of those things / the difficulty involved.
Did I read that the group of LE officers and lab techs that were first to process the scene weren't top notch as the more experienced group were off celebrating the NY holiday?

Maybe they missed something?
From discussions with LE, people like Chief Tsuchita and so on were called back from their holidays pretty soon. It's entirely possible the first man into the house wasn't as senior as he normally would be. But I think it's reasonable to conclude that they immediately would've realised just how major this crime was.
 
Does anyone know if it's true the hankerchief was ironed? Or is this a mix up and referring to what @FacelessPodcast mentioned about the nose bent and killer used as face mask? <modsnip: If it's not an approved source, do NOT even mention it> If so, isn't this another military trait? The ironing of such things?

Said article mentions killer was vegetarian according to the food ate the day before but isn't that common cuisine in Tokyo so not necessarily a vegetarian diet per se?

ETA: Oops, it's an article Nic wrote! So I guess true and I didn't hear about the ironing of the hankerchief until I read that.
I actually don't know if they were ironed. I wrote those articles years before seriously investigating this case. From memory, the TMPD do theorise that the killer could've been a "mommy's boy" given the food in his stomach. I think thi theory touched on the handkerchief being ironed too.

I guess it would be possible for the handkerchiefs to be both ironed and for one of them (not used with the knife) to be covering his face.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If the Tokyo MPD is uncertain as to the killer's escape route, I'm wondering what basis there is for deeming this window a "wonderful" option.
House, one entrance - the front door. Neighbors, police - how will they enter the house? Through the doors, they will not climb through the balcony or window. There are no other exits in the house, except for the bathroom window, through which you can safely escape if someone unexpectedly enters, while he enters, while he goes up to the second floor - there is more than enough time to escape through the bathroom window. Therefore, this is a “wonderful” escape option.
I don't actually know what this sentence means.
From the place where he was, above the front door, through the window you can see everything in front of the house. If, for example, you hear the sound of a police car, you can look out and see it.
Citation needed. Particularly the PIN number part. Where is that coming from?
He left bank cards, passports, and passbooks by the sofa. Also mobiles on it. This is an assumption that he was looking for passwords (PIN) codes for them. Perhaps it was possible to somehow check the balance from mobile phones, and he tried dates of birth and other standard combinations, and looked for records and clues in the boxes.
Based on what? Perhaps you could share some links or evidence for this?
Are the existing facts not enough? An unknown person entered the house, then left it, and did it in such a way that no one can understand how he did it. This suggests that he is a master at this, a pro. No one could do this the first time, there would be traces left. Training, practice - this is the ideal result.
By nursery, I assume you mean the kids' bedroom?
Yes, but is there a difference? They not only slept there, but also played there, there were toys. Whatever you call it, the essence is the same.
He enters the house around 11pm and leaves, at the earliest, at 1:23AM. That is plenty of time to take one of Mikio's jackets. There is no evidence he rushed out of the house and didn't have enough time to grab a jacket.
I meant about his jacket, he penetrates, say, through the balcony, attacks Rei. Then what prevents him from taking off his jacket and leaving it there? And after all, put back on a clean one and leave in it. He didn’t do that, he didn’t have time to do it or didn’t think that he would stain it, maybe murders weren’t part of his plans at all.
Evidence?
Walking past corpses, pools of blood, more than once, as if this is in the order of things. Morally and psychologically, it didn’t bother him. Otherwise, he would have covered them with something, at the very least, or dragged the bodies far away.
Haruko's lack of a recollection surrounding the front door as she discovered the bodies.
<modsnip: No link to quoted information>
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Are the existing facts not enough? An unknown person entered the house, then left it, and did it in such a way that no one can understand how he did it. This suggests that he is a master at this, a pro. No one could do this the first time, there would be traces left. Training, practice - this is the ideal result.
Apologies but how do the existing facts make you think it was a robbery?

Not only very few things (and money) were taken, but no pro would enter a house with four people in it and with the lights still on (Mikio was still up).
Also, a "pro" would make a mess like that?
A "pro" would leave his feces?

This all look like uneducated guesses based on gut's impressions.
 
ADMIN NOTE:

Many posts have been removed and/or edited.

Reddit is not an approved source for anything at Websleuths (other than an account known to be that of a victim or an officially named POI/suspect). Anyone can post anything on the internet that may or may not be true and many people play games just because they can. I could have an account there and talk about the elves, my busy workshop at Christmas, and the sleigh needs repair. That does not mean I am Santa Claus.

WS requires links to anything stated as fact. Do NOT introduce something that can not be supported and linked to either MSM or LE, or scholarly articles to support. No "I think I read somewhere .." or "wasn't it said that ...". This results in subsequent discussion, and next thing we know it's being stated as fact. That is precisely how rumors get started (and attributed back to WS :rolleyes:). It also creates a tremendous amount of cleanup for staff. and after we've had to go through 15 to 20 pages to find and clean up responses, that really makes us very, very cranky.
 
Apologies but how do the existing facts make you think it was a robbery?

Not only very few things (and money) were taken, but no pro would enter a house with four people in it and with the lights still on (Mikio was still up).
Also, a "pro" would make a mess like that?
A "pro" would leave his feces?

This all look like uneducated guesses based on gut's impressions.
He left behind everything about him besides his name written on the bathroom mirror. This man was no pro. Not being able to agree on how he entered the house is irrelevant for this case to be solved - he got inside one way or another. If Japan had the laws to allow his DNA to be used in other ways this would have been over and done with a decade ago.
 
House, one entrance - the front door. Neighbors, police - how will they enter the house? Through the doors, they will not climb through the balcony or window. There are no other exits in the house, except for the bathroom window, through which you can safely escape if someone unexpectedly enters, while he enters, while he goes up to the second floor - there is more than enough time to escape through the bathroom window. Therefore, this is a “wonderful” escape option.
RSBM: Wrong.
 

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
150
Guests online
3,170
Total visitors
3,320

Forum statistics

Threads
604,405
Messages
18,171,675
Members
232,550
Latest member
ARC1986
Back
Top