Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Okay thanks, so the sheet on Yasuko sounds like done by authorities and not the killer. I always thought acts of violence to the face (not head but face particularly) were more personal from crimes especially with women - especially if done post mortem with intent. I still come back to her being the main target here for some reason. Not that she necessarily knew him, but perhaps if a brief encounter before somewhere that set him off, MOO.

Again, back to killer's utter vileness, disregard and disrespect... to throw a cabinet on Mikio after it all? Unbelievably callous, almost perverse really. Like I wonder if the killer got a kick out of that somehow?? JMO... I am just trying to understand the personality of this coward. Someone has to recognize those clothes and who this person is!
My personal opinion surrounding the brutality of the Yasuko and Niina’s killings is that he was in pure panic mode by that point.

If we go by the suspected order of events the killer had already manually strangled Rei to the point of death (which is no easy feat), had a brutal struggle with Mikio wherein he sliced his hand open and broke his knife in Mikio’s head. After that he then went to kill Yasuko and Niina, failed due to his weapon being broken, then had to go to the kitchen downstairs to get another. Time would then need to elapse to allow Yasuko and Niina to come down the ladder in which the killer would be waiting, probably shaking with a mixture of rage and fear, before approaching them and needing to kill them too. They had tended to their wounds before coming down so there was likely a few minutes of waiting time minimum. Can you imagine what was going through his head?
By that point he just needed them dead and as quickly as possible so the attacks were furious and unrelenting. JMO.
 
My personal opinion surrounding the brutality of the Yasuko and Niina’s killings is that he was in pure panic mode by that point.

If we go by the suspected order of events the killer had already manually strangled Rei to the point of death (which is no easy feat), had a brutal struggle with Mikio wherein he sliced his hand open and broke his knife in Mikio’s head. After that he then went to kill Yasuko and Niina, failed due to his weapon being broken, then had to go to the kitchen downstairs to get another. Time would then need to elapse to allow Yasuko and Niina to come down the ladder in which the killer would be waiting, probably shaking with a mixture of rage and fear, before approaching them and needing to kill them too. They had tended to their wounds before coming down so there was likely a few minutes of waiting time minimum. Can you imagine what was going through his head?
By that point he just needed them dead and as quickly as possible so the attacks were furious and unrelenting. JMO.
As much as horrific this reconstruction is, it is very much a possibility.

Even though humans are complex beings, they are very "simple" on a fundamental and primordial leveI.
In my opinion rage and fear are much easily explainable "reasons" (so to say), than other conjectures about the brutality on the women in particular: they were simply the last victims after an escalation in brutality and uncontrollable events.

Truly sends shivers down one's spine.
 
As much as horrific this reconstruction is, it is very much a possibility.

Even though humans are complex beings, they are very "simple" on a fundamental and primordial leveI.
In my opinion rage and fear are much easily explainable "reasons" (so to say), than other conjectures about the brutality on the women in particular: they were simply the last victims after an escalation in brutality and uncontrollable events.

Truly sends shivers down one's spine.
He was also losing a lot of blood by that point too, and had no way of knowing if Yasuko had means of contacting someone via phone up in the loft. Likely he would be thinking unless he finished it now the chances of him being caught would significantly increase as time went on.

I think to myself if it were me in this situation and the killer had left, I would yell out of the loft window at the top of my lungs… the Irie’s would hear and call the police possibly, or the house opposite. But it is easier to say that than what really goes through a persons mind in such a situation, which is something I cannot truly fathom.
 
Apologies but how do the existing facts make you think it was a robbery?
I didn't say it was a robbery. I think that since the criminal entered the house and left it in such a way that no one can understand how he did it, did not leave any traces or clues (exclusively in the method of entry and nothing more). So he is a pro at this. Namely in the art of entering without a trace. Thieves with decent experience are capable of this. Pros leave a mess - regarding boxes, search - time is important to them, they know where to look and how to do it quickly. When everything went wrong, why bother with hiding something that cannot be hidden?

The criminal who committed this has not been found to this day. Does this mean anything? It does. An unthinkable amount of evidence, traces - and what, in the end, did they help much? So he knows how to hide, not get caught on camera, not get caught by the police, etc. So he is not simple, not a random person. Otherwise, it turns out that how he got in is unclear, how he hid is unclear, he wasn’t caught on camera, etc. He can’t be so lucky in all of this, one or two times, yes, maybe he was lucky, it happens, but in total, how many lucky breaks are there?
 
I didn't say it was a robbery. I think that since the criminal entered the house and left it in such a way that no one can understand how he did it, did not leave any traces or clues (exclusively in the method of entry and nothing more). So he is a pro at this.
GreK, he is not a pro at this. The literal Tokyo MPD noted his sloppiness, the "treasure trove" of evidence he left behind. That he was not apprehended is not evidence of professionalism; that is a false cause argument. And by leaning on it, the suggestion is, any criminal who is not apprehended is therefore a "pro". Half of murders in the US go unsolved each year, it does not mean that half were perpetrated by professionals. Perhaps the TMPD are wrong, perhaps this whole thread is wrong, perhaps you are the lone, shining beacon of veracity here. Even so, you would still require links when you state something as a fact versus an opinion on WS.
Namely in the art of entering without a trace.
He left traces. The problem is he left too many traces. That has muddled his entry point. Had Haruko been able to clearly recall the status of the front door when she entered, things would be different. Put another way; he was relying on an old lady to not remember the status of a door or window. That is simply absurd for a so-called pro. Moreover, for all we know, the TMPD are aware of his entry and exit point but they're keeping it back. This is something police often do and, in the case of LE in Japan, I have seen it many times.
The criminal who committed this has not been found to this day. Does this mean anything? It does.
Respectfully, you don't know that. It means nothing more than he has not yet been found. If you are going to state as fact that him being free to this day means he is a pro, please share how you are so certain of this. If it is merely your opinion, please frame it as such. As per the words of the mod, who I believe snipped your post yesterday: "WS requires links to anything stated as fact. Do NOT introduce something that can not be supported and linked to either MSM or LE. "
An unthinkable amount of evidence, traces - and what, in the end, did they help much? So he knows how to hide, not get caught on camera, not get caught by the police, etc. So he is not simple, not a random person.
What if he merely had a way out of the country? You are re-hashing a debate from 2.5 years ago on which there are literally hundreds of posts. You DO NOT know whether he was a "simple" or "random" person, whatever that may mean. Nor do you know if he is some sort of pro assassin. It would be a much better idea to say that you believe him to be such. Though you would still be wrong, in my estimation.
Otherwise, it turns out that how he got in is unclear, how he hid is unclear, he wasn’t caught on camera, etc. He can’t be so lucky in all of this, one or two times, yes, maybe he was lucky, it happens, but in total, how many lucky breaks are there?
Just because you cannot explain it, just because it seems improbable to you, it does not mean you can draw any solid conclusions. It's like saying that because I don't know how a clock is built, therefore God must exist. Yes, clearly the killer got lucky and more than once. But what if he simply had a car outside the house? What if he left Japan the next day? And if the implication is that he's a professional, then why does he bring a sushi knife which is entirely inappropriate for the application of violence? It breaks the first time he uses it. Why does he let a small salary man almost get the better of him? Why does he remain behind in the house? Why does he eat their melon? Perks of the assassin profession? As you say, once he's made the mistake, all bets are off and he leaves his evidence everywhere. Today, he's Japan most wanted fugitive. So, all in all, not much of a pro.

With all that said, this will be my last correspondence with you. Welcome to the thread, I hope you find it interesting.
 
I notice in this video that there are some kind of white covers on the side view mirrors on the vehicle. Were there fingerprints & LE was protecting them? I really do wonder if using the vehicle to access the balcony was the entry & possibly exit route & there's some evidence that LE has but has never released. Also, has LE ever said if they found that balcony door unlocked when they arrived at the scene?
That's my understanding, yes. That the TMPD were looking at the family's vehicle for traces of the killer.

They have never commented on this, nor Rei's balcony.
 
Re: handkerchiefs and hip bag…
I’ve been looking over that today and have spotted a few things.

According to this article, the hip bag had a hole in the bottom and a few other smaller holes. The image attached is from the TMPD DVD on the case but it is not clarified whether this is the real bag or a replica.
Regardless, if you look at the white circle you can see a hole in the bottom. Other circles show smaller holes:
IMG_3791.jpeg
From memory the knife was slightly too big for the bag, so I’m wondering if, after it slicing a hole in the bottom, the killer used a handkerchief to cover the end of the knife to prevent more holes and that’s why it ended up with a slice in it. Rather than using the handkerchief as a specific method to grip the knife to stab reminiscent of fish mongers and certain Asian countries, it was just due to trying to protect the bag from being damaged further. I’m neither here nor there with this, just what I noticed.

And now just on the hip bag itself, I was trying to see if I could find who exactly manufactured the bag. It was said to be made down in Osaka and sold up in Tokyo with 2850 units made, but I couldn’t find the name of who made it exactly from my searches. I just so happened to do an image search on that particular style of bag, and what came up were almost exact replicas… all being sold as military special operations equipment in Japan. It seems this style of bag, though bought in Japan, may have been sold under military equipment. See screenshot:IMG_3792.jpeg
 
Interesting... I'm curious about the 'mommy's boy' label! They say related to his food/diet? I don't understand the connection there and I'm so curious!

If the hankerchiefs were ironed, would it be his mother doing it or him being meticulous himself and doing it? Were his discarded clothes left folded or scattered? I guess that could go either way there. MOO
Yes, the sesame string beans are a common home-cooked dish. So, one of the theories was that the killer was a momma's boy. This, in conjunction with the highlighter pens, handkerchiefs and age range, tells us that they still think he was young on the night of the murders. Officially, 15-24 years old.

Myself, I'm not so sure about drawing hard and fast conclusions about his relationship with his mother based on green beans and handkerchiefs but it was only a theory.

His clothes in the house were NOT folded. I wouldn't say scattered, they were concentrated in the front room. But yeah, more like he just left them behind.
 
Okay thanks, so the sheet on Yasuko sounds like done by authorities and not the killer. I always thought acts of violence to the face (not head but face particularly) were more personal from crimes especially with women - especially if done post mortem with intent. I still come back to her being the main target here for some reason. Not that she necessarily knew him, but perhaps if a brief encounter before somewhere that set him off, MOO.
I can tell you that the violence to the heads and faces shocked the first investigators. Obviously, they'd seen knife violence before--in Japan it's overwhelmingly one of the most common methods. But not to that extent. As for the killer's relationship to the family; anything is possible. The facts say he destroyed them all so I think the safest conclusion is that that was his goal. That's in the absence of more information. But it is, of course, entirely possible that someone within the unit angered him in some way. Or it's possible that he was already angry and looking for someone to take it out on. That's my own personal view. At any rate, the level of resources put on this case are astonishing. 280,000+ personnel across 24 years. Even if that figure is inflated, it's an incredible amount of man hours. Yet no single relationship has ever been uncovered. For that reason, I can't subscribe to the killer being drawn there by Yasuko or any of the other family members.
Again, back to killer's utter vileness, disregard and disrespect... to throw a cabinet on Mikio after it all? Unbelievably callous, almost perverse really. Like I wonder if the killer got a kick out of that somehow?? JMO... I am just trying to understand the personality of this coward. Someone has to recognize those clothes and who this person is!
It's definitely callous. I think the drawer lands on Mikio (or close to him, partially on his body, I think) when the killer takes it out of the unit. The problem with trying to understand the killer from his actions (believe me, I've been trying since 2009/2010), is that so many seem contradictory. And there is just so much of him left behind. So here we are, able to litigate for and against almost everything.
 
My personal opinion surrounding the brutality of the Yasuko and Niina’s killings is that he was in pure panic mode by that point.

If we go by the suspected order of events the killer had already manually strangled Rei to the point of death (which is no easy feat), had a brutal struggle with Mikio wherein he sliced his hand open and broke his knife in Mikio’s head. After that he then went to kill Yasuko and Niina, failed due to his weapon being broken, then had to go to the kitchen downstairs to get another. Time would then need to elapse to allow Yasuko and Niina to come down the ladder in which the killer would be waiting, probably shaking with a mixture of rage and fear, before approaching them and needing to kill them too. They had tended to their wounds before coming down so there was likely a few minutes of waiting time minimum. Can you imagine what was going through his head?
By that point he just needed them dead and as quickly as possible so the attacks were furious and unrelenting. JMO.
I think this is a very solid take.
 
Re: handkerchiefs and hip bag…
I’ve been looking over that today and have spotted a few things.

According to this article, the hip bag had a hole in the bottom and a few other smaller holes. The image attached is from the TMPD DVD on the case but it is not clarified whether this is the real bag or a replica.
Regardless, if you look at the white circle you can see a hole in the bottom. Other circles show smaller holes:
View attachment 531596
To me, that's very likely from the TMPD photos. I recognise the sheet beneath it. For comparison, this is from their information appeal pamphlet from some years ago:

Screenshot 2024-09-16 at 14.12.27.png
From memory the knife was slightly too big for the bag, so I’m wondering if, after it slicing a hole in the bottom, the killer used a handkerchief to cover the end of the knife to prevent more holes and that’s why it ended up with a slice in it.
This is a great catch and definitely a possibility. He wanted to hide it from view.
And now just on the hip bag itself, I was trying to see if I could find who exactly manufactured the bag. It was said to be made down in Osaka and sold up in Tokyo with 2850 units made, but I couldn’t find the name of who made it exactly from my searches. I just so happened to do an image search on that particular style of bag, and what came up were almost exact replicas… all being sold as military special operations equipment in Japan. It seems this style of bag, though bought in Japan, may have been sold under military equipment. See screenshot:View attachment 531595
Well well well...
 
Re: handkerchiefs and hip bag…
I’ve been looking over that today and have spotted a few things.

According to this article, the hip bag had a hole in the bottom and a few other smaller holes. The image attached is from the TMPD DVD on the case but it is not clarified whether this is the real bag or a replica.
Regardless, if you look at the white circle you can see a hole in the bottom. Other circles show smaller holes:
View attachment 531596
From memory the knife was slightly too big for the bag, so I’m wondering if, after it slicing a hole in the bottom, the killer used a handkerchief to cover the end of the knife to prevent more holes and that’s why it ended up with a slice in it. Rather than using the handkerchief as a specific method to grip the knife to stab reminiscent of fish mongers and certain Asian countries, it was just due to trying to protect the bag from being damaged further. I’m neither here nor there with this, just what I noticed.

And now just on the hip bag itself, I was trying to see if I could find who exactly manufactured the bag. It was said to be made down in Osaka and sold up in Tokyo with 2850 units made, but I couldn’t find the name of who made it exactly from my searches. I just so happened to do an image search on that particular style of bag, and what came up were almost exact replicas… all being sold as military special operations equipment in Japan. It seems this style of bag, though bought in Japan, may have been sold under military equipment. See screenshot:View attachment 531595

Wow! Amazing sleuthing Incoherent!

In addition to this post, I just want to thank you for all the incredibly relevant helpful and well-researched insights and information you bring to this thread. Your perspective and local knowledge and research skills contribute so much!
 
Yes, the sesame string beans are a common home-cooked dish. So, one of the theories was that the killer was a momma's boy. This, in conjunction with the highlighter pens, handkerchiefs and age range, tells us that they still think he was young on the night of the murders. Officially, 15-24 years old.

Respectfully snipped by me. Regarding the age profile, was it purely based on contextual clues, appearance, clothing, behavior, etc, OR was there some sort of biological indicators from the blood or DNA that could also have provided clues? I have no idea if that’s even possible actually but curious about that.
 
Wow! Amazing sleuthing Incoherent!

In addition to this post, I just want to thank you for all the incredibly relevant helpful and well-researched insights and information you bring to this thread. Your perspective and local knowledge and research skills contribute so much!
Hard agree. @Incoherent is an asset to this thread.
 
Respectfully snipped by me. Regarding the age profile, was it purely based on contextual clues, appearance, clothing, behavior, etc, OR was there some sort of biological indicators from the blood or DNA that could also have provided clues? I have no idea if that’s even possible actually but curious about that.
I don't think DNA can tell you much about age? It's not my area of expertise so happy to give way to others who know more. I think the TMPD theory about him being a momma's boy was based on the other clues taken a whole. I'm assuming they must have evidence they haven't shared, though. Just one or two years ago, they publicly revised the killer's age range down from 15-40 to 15-24. I can't imagine this was done on guesswork.
 
Wow! Amazing sleuthing Incoherent!

In addition to this post, I just want to thank you for all the incredibly relevant helpful and well-researched insights and information you bring to this thread. Your perspective and local knowledge and research skills contribute so much!
Thank you for the kind words, that is a very nice thing to say Kitty!
I live quite close to the Miyazawa house and sometimes sit down in the choo-choo park behind it at night with a beer and notebook and think about things. Somewhat of an odd feeling when looking at the bathroom window and sitting where he once was, but it sometimes helps when considering all of the information what to look into and, if I’m lucky enough, I’ll notice something that might help.
Hard agree. @Incoherent is an asset to this thread.
Thanks Nic, we’ll have to talk when (not if!) you’re back in Tokyo for the next Faceless instalment.
 
I didn't say it was a robbery. I think that since the criminal entered the house and left it in such a way that no one can understand how he did it, did not leave any traces or clues (exclusively in the method of entry and nothing more). So he is a pro at this. Namely in the art of entering without a trace. Thieves with decent experience are capable of this. Pros leave a mess - regarding boxes, search - time is important to them, they know where to look and how to do it quickly. When everything went wrong, why bother with hiding something that cannot be hidden?

The criminal who committed this has not been found to this day. Does this mean anything? It does. An unthinkable amount of evidence, traces - and what, in the end, did they help much? So he knows how to hide, not get caught on camera, not get caught by the police, etc. So he is not simple, not a random person. Otherwise, it turns out that how he got in is unclear, how he hid is unclear, he wasn’t caught on camera, etc. He can’t be so lucky in all of this, one or two times, yes, maybe he was lucky, it happens, but in total, how many lucky breaks are there?
To be fair, maybe some of us are misunderstanding how you word things? Do know first hand knowledge of break and enter strategy to put towards your ideas/theories? If so you'll be sure to add MOO or JMO as Faceless mentioned after your thoughts.

What I'm getting at is - are you trying to say you think the killer perhaps has a background in B&Es prior to murders then got bored and then escalated to wanting to 'try' murder? I could find that plausible as I do think this killer is easily bored. Maybe he would get aroused/adrenaline from B&Es, lingering in people's homes when not home or voyeur type behaviour and that wasn't doing it anymore... then might've decided to up the excitement.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
222
Guests online
2,963
Total visitors
3,185

Forum statistics

Threads
604,496
Messages
18,172,980
Members
232,628
Latest member
a.james.thornton
Back
Top